President is going to be on TV any min to address N. Korea.

[loic2003]

An interesting article in the National Geo interviews a Chinese soldier who was appalled at the NK regime and the way they treat their people (a *chinaman* saying this!!). A refugee captured by china was returned to NK, where at the border they pushed a wire through that webbed bit between your 1st finger and thumb and led her off screaming 'like a pig about to be slaughtered'. Apparently, when they have groups of prisoners, they push a piece of wire under their collar bone, though each one and lead them along like that, probably to be executed.

Really, really twisted stuff. It seems each time I read more on the country I get that cold feeling down my spine as some new example of torture/abuse of humans is uncovered.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: Spacehead
How does one confirm that it was a nuclear blast versus a conventional bomb?

I'm sure the US is monitoring activities. They probably knew straight away.

Not necessarily. If it is an underground test, there is little to no radioactive leftovers in the air. It would require a direct flyover to really register and I'm not sure we can do a direct flyover of N. Korea territory.

If the test resulted in a yield similar to 550 tons of TNT as S. Korea is saying, then it was a failure beyond the news grabbing headlines.

If the test resulted in 5,000 - 15,000 tons of TNT as Russia is stating, then it wasn't a failure but a mild success.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

A nuclear blast and an earthquake do have different patterns. It' like the difference between someone knocking on your door and a garbage truck driving by.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
A nuclear blast and an earthquake do have different patterns. It' like the difference between someone knocking on your door and a garbage truck driving by.

Yes but is there a seismic difference between a nuclear blast of 450 tons of TNT and a conventional blast of 450 tons of TNT?

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: loic2003
An interesting article in the National Geo interviews a Chinese soldier who was appalled at the NK regime and the way they treat their people (a *chinaman* saying this!!). A refugee captured by china was returned to NK, where at the border they pushed a wire through that webbed bit between your 1st finger and thumb and led her off screaming 'like a pig about to be slaughtered'. Apparently, when they have groups of prisoners, they push a piece of wire under their collar bone, though each one and lead them along like that, probably to be executed.

Really, really twisted stuff. It seems each time I read more on the country I get that cold feeling down my spine as some new example of torture/abuse of humans is uncovered.

Yea, there are some good documentaries out there. There was one good documentary I saw on google video about some asian reporter who was to meet an American reporter at the border at North Korea. The asian reporter never showed up, and thy suspected that he'd been captured. They showed hidden video of life in North Korea, and it really was disturbing to watch.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
A nuclear blast and an earthquake do have different patterns. It' like the difference between someone knocking on your door and a garbage truck driving by.

Yes but is there a seismic difference between a nuclear blast of 450 tons of TNT and a conventional blast of 450 tons of TNT?

I'd guess so, though it may be small.

The US has been doing that kind of testing for 60 years so I think we would be able to tell the difference provided we have access to the SK and Russian data.

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: loic2003
An interesting article in the National Geo interviews a Chinese soldier who was appalled at the NK regime and the way they treat their people (a *chinaman* saying this!!). A refugee captured by china was returned to NK, where at the border they pushed a wire through that webbed bit between your 1st finger and thumb and led her off screaming 'like a pig about to be slaughtered'. Apparently, when they have groups of prisoners, they push a piece of wire under their collar bone, though each one and lead them along like that, probably to be executed.

Really, really twisted stuff. It seems each time I read more on the country I get that cold feeling down my spine as some new example of torture/abuse of humans is uncovered.

Yea, there are some good documentaries out there. There was one good documentary I saw on google video about some asian reporter who was to meet an American reporter at the border at North Korea. The asian reporter never showed up, and thy suspected that he'd been captured. They showed hidden video of life in North Korea, and it really was disturbing to watch.

Have you heard about the baby snatching, and then having them sold on. Or was that in china .. hmm .. i can't remember now.

All i can say is thank god i'm a westerner

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Originally posted by: lokiju

Originally posted by: fuzzybabybunny
I'm confused. Why do the North Koreans hate the US so much, and why is them having a nuclear bomb a very very bad thing? Would they actually attempt to unleash it on us?

<--- stinks at History and current events

N. Korea doesn't have the ability to reach the US with a nuke at this time.


The real threat is them selling it off to terrorist that will use it against the US, Europe, Japan, etc...

Ahhh.... I see. I was just reading up on it in Wikipedia and it didn't mention NK's "possible" ties to terrorist groups for some reason.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: loic2003
An interesting article in the National Geo interviews a Chinese soldier who was appalled at the NK regime and the way they treat their people (a *chinaman* saying this!!). A refugee captured by china was returned to NK, where at the border they pushed a wire through that webbed bit between your 1st finger and thumb and led her off screaming 'like a pig about to be slaughtered'. Apparently, when they have groups of prisoners, they push a piece of wire under their collar bone, though each one and lead them along like that, probably to be executed.

Really, really twisted stuff. It seems each time I read more on the country I get that cold feeling down my spine as some new example of torture/abuse of humans is uncovered.

Yea, there are some good documentaries out there. There was one good documentary I saw on google video about some asian reporter who was to meet an American reporter at the border at North Korea. The asian reporter never showed up, and thy suspected that he'd been captured. They showed hidden video of life in North Korea, and it really was disturbing to watch.

Have you heard about the baby snatching, and then having them sold on. Or was that in china .. hmm .. i can't remember now.

All i can say is thank god i'm a westerner

No, I havent heard about that. After everything I've read and watched, the main things that stick out when I think about N Korea is the poverty, and the failure of the country.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
A nuclear blast and an earthquake do have different patterns. It' like the difference between someone knocking on your door and a garbage truck driving by.

Yes but is there a seismic difference between a nuclear blast of 450 tons of TNT and a conventional blast of 450 tons of TNT?

They can prove that mining blasts aren't nuclear.

 

[RichUK]

?The US for now are committed to diplomacy?. Yeah, ok then Bush. I?ll give you a week till you push the button

?Bush confirmed to allies (S. Korea etc) that the US is committed to meet the full range of their deterrent?. Ala, we mean business N.K, we will own you if we have to.

 

[Queasy]

Full Bush statement:

THE PRESIDENT: Last night the government of North Korea proclaimed to the world that it had conducted a nuclear test. We're working to confirm North Korea's claim. Nonetheless, such a claim itself constitutes a threat to international peace and security. The United States condemns this provocative act. Once again North Korea has defied the will of the international community, and the international community will respond.



This was confirmed this morning in conversations I had with leaders of China, and South Korea, Russia, and Japan. We reaffirmed our commitment to a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula, and all of us agreed that the proclaimed actions taken by North Korea are unacceptable and deserve an immediate response by the United Nations Security Council.



The North Korean regime remains one of the world's leading proliferator of missile technology, including transfers to Iran and Syria. The transfer of nuclear weapons or material by North Korea to states or non-state entities would be considered a grave threat to the United States, and we would hold North Korea fully accountable of the consequences of such action.



The United States remains committed to diplomacy, and we will continue to protect ourselves and our interests. I reaffirmed to our allies in the region, including South Korea and Japan, that the United States will meet the full range of our deterrent and security commitments.



Threats will not lead to a brighter future for the North Korean people, nor weaken the resolve of the United States and our allies to achieve the de-nuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. Today's claim by North Korea serves only to raise tensions, while depriving the North Korean people of the increased prosperity and better relations with the world offered by the implementation of the joint statement of the six-party talks. The oppressed and impoverished people of North Korea deserve that brighter future.

Thank you.

 

[killface]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
A nuclear blast and an earthquake do have different patterns. It' like the difference between someone knocking on your door and a garbage truck driving by.

Yes but is there a seismic difference between a nuclear blast of 450 tons of TNT and a conventional blast of 450 tons of TNT?

They can prove that mining blasts aren't nuclear.

How? As far as I know, if the radiation is contained, the only thing we have to go by is the seismic activity.

 

[lokiju]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Full Bush statement:

That was quick.

Did you type it as you listened?

 

[neutralizer]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Full Bush statement:

THE PRESIDENT: Last night the government of North Korea proclaimed to the world that it had conducted a nuclear test. We're working to confirm North Korea's claim. Nonetheless, such a claim itself constitutes a threat to international peace and security. The United States condemns this provocative act. Once again North Korea has defied the will of the international community, and the international community will respond.



This was confirmed this morning in conversations I had with leaders of China, and South Korea, Russia, and Japan. We reaffirmed our commitment to a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula, and all of us agreed that the proclaimed actions taken by North Korea are unacceptable and deserve an immediate response by the United Nations Security Council.



The North Korean regime remains one of the world's leading proliferator of missile technology, including transfers to Iran and Syria. The transfer of nuclear weapons or material by North Korea to states or non-state entities would be considered a grave threat to the United States, and we would hold North Korea fully accountable of the consequences of such action.



The United States remains committed to diplomacy, and we will continue to protect ourselves and our interests. I reaffirmed to our allies in the region, including South Korea and Japan, that the United States will meet the full range of our deterrent and security commitments.



Threats will not lead to a brighter future for the North Korean people, nor weaken the resolve of the United States and our allies to achieve the de-nuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. Today's claim by North Korea serves only to raise tensions, while depriving the North Korean people of the increased prosperity and better relations with the world offered by the implementation of the joint statement of the six-party talks. The oppressed and impoverished people of North Korea deserve that brighter future.

Thank you.

Wow, that's repetitive.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: lokiju

Originally posted by: Queasy
Full Bush statement:

That was quick.

Did you type it as you listened?

Just happened to run across it at NRO's The Corner blog.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

It's ironic to me that President Bush is so willing to defer to the UN Security Council in relation to Iran and NK, when we were so disdainful of them in Iraq (since they wouldn't facilitate the war that Rumsfeld and company had wanted for so long).

 

[snoopdoug1]

Thanks for the speech, Queasy.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: DonVito
It's ironic to me that President Bush is so willing to defer to the UN Security Council in relation to Iran and NK, when we were so disdainful of them in Iraq (since they wouldn't facilitate the war that Rumsfeld and company had wanted for so long).

:::sigh:::

We had a cease fire agreement and legal cause to bring the government down with Iraq. This was the effect of the 1991 gulf war. It should have been done the first time Saddam kicked inspectors out of the country. Instead we waited 12 years too long.

We have none of that with NK or Iran.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: DonVito
It's ironic to me that President Bush is so willing to defer to the UN Security Council in relation to Iran and NK, when we were so disdainful of them in Iraq (since they wouldn't facilitate the war that Rumsfeld and company had wanted for so long).

:::sigh:::

We had a cease fire agreement and legal cause to bring the government down with Iraq. This was the effect of the 1991 gulf war. It should have been done the first time Saddam kicked inspectors out of the country. Instead we waited 12 years too long.

We have none of that with NK or Iran.

Funny.....

You might want to read up on our status with North Korea.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: killface

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
A nuclear blast and an earthquake do have different patterns. It' like the difference between someone knocking on your door and a garbage truck driving by.

Yes but is there a seismic difference between a nuclear blast of 450 tons of TNT and a conventional blast of 450 tons of TNT?

They can prove that mining blasts aren't nuclear.

How? As far as I know, if the radiation is contained, the only thing we have to go by is the seismic activity.

The shape of the shockwave.


As far as having allies in this issue, having China agreeing with us is HUGE for that region.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: DonVito
It's ironic to me that President Bush is so willing to defer to the UN Security Council in relation to Iran and NK, when we were so disdainful of them in Iraq (since they wouldn't facilitate the war that Rumsfeld and company had wanted for so long).

:::sigh:::

We had a cease fire agreement and legal cause to bring the government down with Iraq. This was the effect of the 1991 gulf war. It should have been done the first time Saddam kicked inspectors out of the country. Instead we waited 12 years too long.

We have none of that with NK or Iran.

Prior to OIF, however, Saddam Hussein had given weapons inspectors unfettered access, and they turned up nothing (not TOO surprisingly, since we have found in the interim 3 1/2 years that there was nothing to be found). You can credit (or blame) the signatories of PNAC for OIF, since their plan, rather than any legitimate national-security interest, was the genesis for OIF. Unfortunately they didn't see fit to include a plan for what would happen after we were greeted with flowers and chocolates by the grateful Iraqis.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: DonVito
It's ironic to me that President Bush is so willing to defer to the UN Security Council in relation to Iran and NK, when we were so disdainful of them in Iraq (since they wouldn't facilitate the war that Rumsfeld and company had wanted for so long).

:::sigh:::

We had a cease fire agreement and legal cause to bring the government down with Iraq. This was the effect of the 1991 gulf war. It should have been done the first time Saddam kicked inspectors out of the country. Instead we waited 12 years too long.

We have none of that with NK or Iran.

Funny.....

You might want to read up on our status with North Korea.

We have an armistice with NK. Not a legally binding cease fire/treaty/UN resolution in which we basically own the country and have the legal right to invade if the terms are not met.

 

[GoPackGo]

I would tell China to take care of it...

They have the MOST to lose.

 

[newParadigm]

whoa, good thing said weapons can'treach us, but the ties to terorist orgs kinda tingles my spine.