President can now declare Martial Law

[LeadMagnet]

This is good - because if the citizens of any state vote to secede from the USA, he can send in the federal troops and kill off the voting rebels causing the insurrection. Of course they could do something crazy like throw a bunch of federal taxed Texas tea into a harbor to express their displeasure.

 

[db]

Katrina or not, this gives too much power to a sitting President.
What makes the current bunch in the White House wiser than all those who came before them?

 

[BoberFett]

Good thing we still have the second amendment, eh?

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Aegeon, what I am saying is that to suggest that Bush or any other President will declare martial law without sufficient reason is ludicrous.

That's not the point, we live in a democracy, not a benevolent dictatorship...maintaining our rights should NOT rely on the goodwill of our leaders, that is a BAD idea.

True. If relying on the goodwill of leaders was sufficient, dictatorships wouldn't be a problem.

 

[LegendKiller]

Why do we even need rights these days? Ditto-head, rubber stamping, chickenhawks will always support their King. It doesn't matter how many rights are taken, they will *ALWAYS* say it was for a reason. They are so dumb, deaf, and blind, that they can't realize that they are being suckered.

Yet another nail in the coffin of freedom. Bastion of democracy? WTFE, we are heading towards a military powered junta like every other unstable dictatorship. Great job people.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Aegeon
Among other things this potentially allows the President to declare partial law WHENEVER public order has broken down in his opinion, or any other even such as an epidemic or any sort of natural disaster has occured. There is no check of the state governer having to request it anymore. Theoretically the epidemic could be a typical flu going through the area although its admitedly the military probably wouldn't buy that as an excuse. This is not some old law we're talking about.

Could it be that this law was passed in response to Hurricane Katrina and the problems with the governor of Louisiana not declaring an emergency before hand or "inviting" National Guard troops into her state either?
Her slow response is one of the reasons given for the slow start of the recovery effort.

I'm absolutely certain that Katrina was used as the impetus for the passing of this legislation. Whether these unintended consequences were thought out or deliberate is the real question. Either way, this is BAD legislation.

Agreed, and while I can see the point with situations like Katrina, this bill seems to be a poorly thought out response to the problems in the Katrina situation. After all, how hard would it have been to add "natural disaster" to the list of reasons the President can use to control the national guard troops instead of making it totally open-ended?

Just another testament to the do nothing or do wrong Congress.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Why do we even need rights these days? Ditto-head, rubber stamping, chickenhawks will always support their King. It doesn't matter how many rights are taken, they will *ALWAYS* say it was for a reason. They are so dumb, deaf, and blind, that they can't realize that they are being suckered.

Yet another nail in the coffin of freedom. Bastion of democracy? WTFE, we are heading towards a military powered junta like every other unstable dictatorship. Great job people.

I take it you're referring to Republicans? Sure, they passed it, but where was the outcry by the Democrats before this turd was passed and sent to Bush to be enacted? Maybe if our elected representatives would actually take the time to... oh... I don't know... read the bills they're voting on and maybe be in the room when the vote happens this kind of thing wouldn't get through.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Why do we even need rights these days? Ditto-head, rubber stamping, chickenhawks will always support their King. It doesn't matter how many rights are taken, they will *ALWAYS* say it was for a reason. They are so dumb, deaf, and blind, that they can't realize that they are being suckered.

Yet another nail in the coffin of freedom. Bastion of democracy? WTFE, we are heading towards a military powered junta like every other unstable dictatorship. Great job people.

I take it you're referring to Republicans? Sure, they passed it, but where was the outcry by the Democrats before this turd was passed and sent to Bush to be enacted? Maybe if our elected representatives would actually take the time to... oh... I don't know... read the bills they're voting on and maybe be in the room when the vote happens this kind of thing wouldn't get through.

No, I was more referring to the dippy-dos that are replying to this thread, and others, that always rubber stamp what Bush does/says. To anybody who let him do this, they deserve to be voted out, regardless of party affiliation.

 

[waggy]

wow this has potential to be abused.


but i can see the posiblity of postive use. but scary.

any bets when he wants to yank the 22 amendment?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Still no luck with the links... anyway, found lots of info on Dailykos and other sites.

Best way to refute this non-sense...

The right looked like fools when the talked about Clinton using martial law, and I assure you that you look like fools when you do the same for Bush.

So in other words, you can't refute the points and are pointing to a kooky interpretation of previous laws that suggests Clinton could have declared Martial Law whenever he wanted to.

You are not in any way refuting that this new law gives the President increadibly broad and LEGAL powers to declare martial law whenever he want to justify it. Given the facts when you actually look at what happened with Hurricane Katrina, this is increadibly unecessary. There is a huge difference when the President is given clear legal backing to declare such an action. While the military could always refuse to follow orders, they are far more likely to do so if they happen to be clearly illegal.


Just because somebody posts a comment doesn`t mean it needs to be refuted!!
Especially a xcomments that is just pure nonesense!!

I agree with the good prof!!

 

[fitzov]

How about a nice cup of totalitarianism?

 

[heartsurgeon]

but where was the outcry by the Democrats before this turd was passed

anybody got a link to the votes in the House and Senate, I would like to know who voted for this bill...

obviously nobody in the Senate was worried enough to mount a filibuster..

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: fitzov
How about a nice cup of totalitarianism?

If they ever tried anything in regard to having martial law to bring about a dictatorship here, the next day that person would be dead. I dont think very many governors would go along with an outright declaration of martial law by the president if he tried to use this law to gain power. He would also be facing a massive civilian population armed to the teeth with weapons. Outright civil war would ensue and the president would lose.

Now, lets pass some more laws to reduce the amount of firearms in circulation amongst the civilians so he will not lose.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: fitzov
How about a nice cup of totalitarianism?

If they ever tried anything in regard to having martial law to bring about a dictatorship here, the next day that person would be dead. I dont think very many governors would go along with an outright declaration of martial law by the president if he tried to use this law to gain power. He would also be facing a massive civilian population armed to the teeth with weapons. Outright civil war would ensue and the president would lose.

Now, lets pass some more laws to reduce the amount of firearms in circulation amongst the civilians so he will not lose.

Heh, you are dismissing the lengths to which people will go to grab more power. The President would probably jail the Governor for treason. Furthermore, the people wouldn't be able to raise up, considering we are all probably wiretapped by now.

Face it, if we wanted to do now what our ancestors did in 1776, we'd be up a creek without a paddle. This is not our country anymore and people like ProfJohn and his Ilk are just fine with it.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Furthermore, the people wouldn't be able to raise up, considering we are all probably wiretapped by now.

LOL... i hope that you someday realize that tinfoil is not enough to stop them from reading your thoughts. Maybe you should switch to lead...?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Furthermore, the people wouldn't be able to raise up, considering we are all probably wiretapped by now.

LOL... i hope that you someday realize that tinfoil is not enough to stop them from reading your thoughts. Maybe you should switch to lead...?

Perhaps some day you will realize that those elected to power only have one real interest, to stay there. You are being used toolboy and you call me tinfoilboy?

After all these laws have been passed? After all these fundamental freedoms eroded? After the lack of oversight, hearings, investigations into the ***POSSIBILITY*** of illegality, you question my sanity?

Good god man, at least have the balls to say that or elected officials should have the sacks to at least investigate the possibility of illegality! Of course, there is none of that among the zealotry and idiocy of the right fanatics. They would rather label those who wish to follow judicial and democratic procedure as cowards and traitors, or tinfoil hat wearers.

I am utterly amazed that people can't possibly imagine that these puzzle pieces fit together. 6 years ago I might have said the same to other people and agreed with you palehorse74, I voted for Bush then. 5 years ago I would have agreed even more. I woke up after seeing our fundamental rights eroded and seeing Congress do nothing to check the executive.

 

[palehorse]

I believe that references to "all these fundamental freedoms eroded" are ludicrous. I can do/say everything I could do/say 10 or 20 years ago without fear of any additional consequences. can't you do the same? What in your life, or the lives of those you know, has changed? what effect has this supposedly out of control totalitarian regime had on YOU? Do black helicopters fill the night air in your neighborhood? Do men wearing sunglasses and black suits follow you around? Do you believe that your neighbors may turn you over to "the man" resulting in torture and hidden confinement for the rest of your life?

I'm calling shenanigans on all of your leftist rhetoric.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I believe that references to "all these fundamental freedoms eroded" are ludicrous. I can do/say everything I could do/say 10 or 20 years ago without fear of any additional consequences. can't you do the same? What, in your life or the lives of those you know, has changed? what effect has this supposedly out of control totalitarian regime had on YOU? Do black helicopters fill the night air in your neighborhood? Do men wearing sunglasses and black suits follow you around? Do you believe that your neighbors may turn you over to "the man" resulting in torture and hidden confinement for the rest of your life?

I'm calling shenanigans on all of your leftist rhetoric.

So, it doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you now? What about 10 years down the road? Rights don't have to be material to be fundamental. They don't have to be exercised to be essential. They don't have to be used to be needed. They only have to be forgotten or dismissed to be abused and removed.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I believe that references to "all these fundamental freedoms eroded" are ludicrous. I can do/say everything I could do/say 10 or 20 years ago without fear of any additional consequences. can't you do the same? What, in your life or the lives of those you know, has changed? what effect has this supposedly out of control totalitarian regime had on YOU? Do black helicopters fill the night air in your neighborhood? Do men wearing sunglasses and black suits follow you around? Do you believe that your neighbors may turn you over to "the man" resulting in torture and hidden confinement for the rest of your life?

I'm calling shenanigans on all of your leftist rhetoric.

So, it doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you now? What about 10 years down the road? Rights don't have to be material to be fundamental. They don't have to be exercised to be essential. They don't have to be used to be needed. They only have to be forgotten or dismissed to be abused and removed.

It's similar to religion. Someone needs to show me that they can walk on water before I'll believe it. In this case, after observing the same legislation and events that you have during the last 6 years, and looking at all of it just as closely as you, I simply do not see the boogeyman that you believe in.

I'm up to my neck in the GWOT, involved in a 24/7 capacity even, and I just haven't witnessed, even through proxy, this supposed gross erosion of rights that you claim. If/when I ever see it happen, I'll speak out very loudly against it. Until then, you're standard issue rhetoric fails to sway my opinion...

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I believe that references to "all these fundamental freedoms eroded" are ludicrous. I can do/say everything I could do/say 10 or 20 years ago without fear of any additional consequences. can't you do the same? What, in your life or the lives of those you know, has changed? what effect has this supposedly out of control totalitarian regime had on YOU? Do black helicopters fill the night air in your neighborhood? Do men wearing sunglasses and black suits follow you around? Do you believe that your neighbors may turn you over to "the man" resulting in torture and hidden confinement for the rest of your life?

I'm calling shenanigans on all of your leftist rhetoric.

So, it doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you now? What about 10 years down the road? Rights don't have to be material to be fundamental. They don't have to be exercised to be essential. They don't have to be used to be needed. They only have to be forgotten or dismissed to be abused and removed.

It's similar to religion. Someone needs to show me that they can walk on water before I'll believe it. In this case, after observing the same legislation and events that you have during the last 6 years, and looking at all of it just as closely as you, I simply do not see the boogeyman that you believe in.

I'm up to my neck in the GWOT, involved in a 24/7 capacity even, and I just haven't witnessed, even through proxy, this supposed gross erosion of rights that you claim. If/when I ever see it happen, I'll speak out very loudly against it. Until then, you're standard issue rhetoric fails to sway my opinion...

Do you exercise your freedom of speech daily? What about your right to equal representation under law? What a bout privacy? Your right to bear arms? What about your right to not have your own army police you?

Are you telling me that if those were removed because you don't use or see them every day it wouldn't matter?

The day that you need those rights, they will be gone and you'll be stammering "but...but...but...but...I am an American with rights".

They don't have to be used all of the time or seen, or needed today to matter tomorrow.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I believe that references to "all these fundamental freedoms eroded" are ludicrous. I can do/say everything I could do/say 10 or 20 years ago without fear of any additional consequences. can't you do the same? What, in your life or the lives of those you know, has changed? what effect has this supposedly out of control totalitarian regime had on YOU? Do black helicopters fill the night air in your neighborhood? Do men wearing sunglasses and black suits follow you around? Do you believe that your neighbors may turn you over to "the man" resulting in torture and hidden confinement for the rest of your life?

I'm calling shenanigans on all of your leftist rhetoric.

So, it doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you now? What about 10 years down the road? Rights don't have to be material to be fundamental. They don't have to be exercised to be essential. They don't have to be used to be needed. They only have to be forgotten or dismissed to be abused and removed.

It's similar to religion. Someone needs to show me that they can walk on water before I'll believe it. In this case, after observing the same legislation and events that you have during the last 6 years, and looking at all of it just as closely as you, I simply do not see the boogeyman that you believe in.

I'm up to my neck in the GWOT, involved in a 24/7 capacity even, and I just haven't witnessed, even through proxy, this supposed gross erosion of rights that you claim. If/when I ever see it happen, I'll speak out very loudly against it. Until then, you're standard issue rhetoric fails to sway my opinion...

Do you exercise your freedom of speech daily? What about your right to equal representation under law? What a bout privacy? Your right to bear arms? What about your right to not have your own army police you?

Are you telling me that if those were removed because you don't use or see them every day it wouldn't matter?

The day that you need those rights, they will be gone and you'll be stammering "but...but...but...but...I am an American with rights".

They don't have to be used all of the time or seen, or needed today to matter tomorrow.

I've seen no indication that any of those rights have been stripped or "eroded" during the last 6 years. None. Like I said, I dont see your boogeyman; and, trust me, I'm looking very closely.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I've seen no indication that any of those rights have been stripped or "eroded" during the last 6 years. None. Like I said, I dont see your boogeyman; and, trust me, I'm looking very closely.

Even the New York Times which is as anti-Bush as they come said that there is NO evidence at all that the Swift program to track the movement of money had resulted in any invasions of privacy or any other illegal type of activity.
Yet, this is one of the programs the left points to as proof that Bush is taking away our rights and trampling on our civil liberties.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I believe that references to "all these fundamental freedoms eroded" are ludicrous. I can do/say everything I could do/say 10 or 20 years ago without fear of any additional consequences. can't you do the same? What, in your life or the lives of those you know, has changed? what effect has this supposedly out of control totalitarian regime had on YOU? Do black helicopters fill the night air in your neighborhood? Do men wearing sunglasses and black suits follow you around? Do you believe that your neighbors may turn you over to "the man" resulting in torture and hidden confinement for the rest of your life?

I'm calling shenanigans on all of your leftist rhetoric.

So, it doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you now? What about 10 years down the road? Rights don't have to be material to be fundamental. They don't have to be exercised to be essential. They don't have to be used to be needed. They only have to be forgotten or dismissed to be abused and removed.

It's similar to religion. Someone needs to show me that they can walk on water before I'll believe it. In this case, after observing the same legislation and events that you have during the last 6 years, and looking at all of it just as closely as you, I simply do not see the boogeyman that you believe in.

I'm up to my neck in the GWOT, involved in a 24/7 capacity even, and I just haven't witnessed, even through proxy, this supposed gross erosion of rights that you claim. If/when I ever see it happen, I'll speak out very loudly against it. Until then, you're standard issue rhetoric fails to sway my opinion...

Do you exercise your freedom of speech daily? What about your right to equal representation under law? What a bout privacy? Your right to bear arms? What about your right to not have your own army police you?

Are you telling me that if those were removed because you don't use or see them every day it wouldn't matter?

The day that you need those rights, they will be gone and you'll be stammering "but...but...but...but...I am an American with rights".

They don't have to be used all of the time or seen, or needed today to matter tomorrow.

I've seen no indication that any of those rights have been stripped or "eroded" during the last 6 years. None. Like I said, I dont see your boogeyman; and, trust me, I'm looking very closely.

So you are telling me that unfettered wiretapping that hasn't been investigated isn't an erosion of rights? Or investigations that can take place without wire-taps? Or the latest issue with martial law? Free speech zones?

Whatever, people like you really won't recognize it until it's too late. Either that or you'll welcome the totalitarian government.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I believe that references to "all these fundamental freedoms eroded" are ludicrous. I can do/say everything I could do/say 10 or 20 years ago without fear of any additional consequences. can't you do the same? What, in your life or the lives of those you know, has changed? what effect has this supposedly out of control totalitarian regime had on YOU? Do black helicopters fill the night air in your neighborhood? Do men wearing sunglasses and black suits follow you around? Do you believe that your neighbors may turn you over to "the man" resulting in torture and hidden confinement for the rest of your life?

I'm calling shenanigans on all of your leftist rhetoric.

So, it doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you now? What about 10 years down the road? Rights don't have to be material to be fundamental. They don't have to be exercised to be essential. They don't have to be used to be needed. They only have to be forgotten or dismissed to be abused and removed.

It's similar to religion. Someone needs to show me that they can walk on water before I'll believe it. In this case, after observing the same legislation and events that you have during the last 6 years, and looking at all of it just as closely as you, I simply do not see the boogeyman that you believe in.

I'm up to my neck in the GWOT, involved in a 24/7 capacity even, and I just haven't witnessed, even through proxy, this supposed gross erosion of rights that you claim. If/when I ever see it happen, I'll speak out very loudly against it. Until then, you're standard issue rhetoric fails to sway my opinion...

Do you exercise your freedom of speech daily? What about your right to equal representation under law? What a bout privacy? Your right to bear arms? What about your right to not have your own army police you?

Are you telling me that if those were removed because you don't use or see them every day it wouldn't matter?

The day that you need those rights, they will be gone and you'll be stammering "but...but...but...but...I am an American with rights".

They don't have to be used all of the time or seen, or needed today to matter tomorrow.

I've seen no indication that any of those rights have been stripped or "eroded" during the last 6 years. None. Like I said, I dont see your boogeyman; and, trust me, I'm looking very closely.

So you are telling me that unfettered wiretapping that hasn't been investigated isn't an erosion of rights? Or investigations that can take place without wire-taps? Or the latest issue with martial law? Free speech zones?

Whatever, people like you really won't recognize it until it's too late. Either that or you'll welcome the totalitarian government.

I also dont believe the people who stand on streetcorners holding signs that read "The End is Near." So it's not just you...

 

[K1052]

This is odd, I would have though most of the people in P&N would be fairly happy given how many of them were screaming for federal military intervention in post Katrina NO.
I remember people in here raging against Bush for not dropping in Airborne and Rangers to secure the area and I got into several heated arguments about why he couldn't and shouldn't.

The way has been cleared, hope you got what you wanted.