Prescott will be no faster than Northwood

kuk

Platinum Member
Jul 20, 2000
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Saw this over at Ace's Hardware.

Our previous newspost about Prescott's power consumption generated some brilliant and enlighting posts. The Ace's crew likes to thank you all for improving the quality of our messageboard to an excellent level again :).

Now that the Prescott launch is getting closer and we have a pretty good idea what the architectural improvements are, we can make some decent predictions. To refresh your memory let me reiterate a post that I published in September 2003. Prescott is basically a Northwood Pentium 4 with the following improvements:


[*]bigger D-L1 cache (16 KB instead of 8 KB) & L2-cache (1 MB instead of 512 KB) .. No comments necessary
[*]4x Improved Clock Distribution (compared to Northwood) for better Frequency Scaling
[*]Automated design of the functional blocks for better clockscaling
[*]Improved Imul latency : Northwood/Willamette do their integer multiplications on the FPU, and the big latency is due routing the data between integer and FP datapaths. Prescott has a dedicated integer multiplier. (Thanks goes to Heikki Kultala).
[*]Prescott New Instructions (SSE-3), which will not improve performance at the launch (needs optimized software).
[*]Additional WC Buffers. Instead of sending small pieces of data to the AGP videocard, these pieces of data are stored together in buffers, and send through in one big burst. This helps to preserve FSB bandwidth as the bandwidth of the FSB is more efficiently used (less overhead from one big burst than from many small ones)
[*]Improved Pre-Fetcher Branch Predictor. I did not get much info on this but it seems that the buffers have been made bigger so the branch predictor will be able to cope better with more then one thread.
[*]Improved Hyperthreading: two new instructions: Monitor and Wait, which will only improve performance on recompiled software.

we can add two more, one being a fact and another being a rumor:

[*]longer pipeline (fact)
[*]Higher L2-cache latency ? (rumor)


Now if you just look at the first group you would assume Prescott is a super Pentium 4: better clock scalability and more IPC. However, SSE-3 software will not exist at the launch of Prescott, additional WC buffers are not going to make much difference and the small difference gets even smaller because the 800 MHz FSB has access to a very decent amount of bandwidth. The improved imul latency could help, but the real bottleneck of integer code lies in branches. Not even a 6.8 GHz ALU is going to help there. The impact of the 16 KB L1 should not be overestimated as 16 KB might have seemed much back in the days of the 486DX4 but critical loops of the software of today requires much more.

So we are left with fast twice as big L2-cache and L1-cache, and a slightly improved branch predictor of which the effect is probably totally negated by the higher branch misprediction penalty. This means that some software will not run - clock for clock - faster on the Prescott than on the Northwood P4. So besides SSE-3 optimized software, and software that benefits from hyperthreading, a 3.4 GHz Prescott will -IMHO- perform like a Northwood 3.4 GHz.

Basically, I expect that most games will run on it like on a 3.4 Ghz Northwood, In fact, many games are already using the CPU more and more for AI (Battlefield 1942 uses up to 25% of the CPU's clockcycles). The software where Intel is already doing well such as Lightwave, Cinema4d and 3DSMax, will show the Prescott being faster clock for clock than Northwood. With two or more threads, the extra L2-cache space will be put to good use. Intel's main objective with Prescott is getting higher clockspeeds out of Netburst without lowering the IPC.

More data in February...

Of course, these are mostly assumptions. But Ace's is rarely off the target ...
 

mchammer187

Diamond Member
Nov 26, 2000
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well lets hope they can ramp up those clock frequencies then

PIVs are not clock for clock faster than PIII's

northwood or williamette
 

Auric

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
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Originally posted by: kuk
Saw this over at Ace's Hardware.

Basically, I expect that most games will run on it like on a 3.4 Ghz Northwood, In fact, many games are already using the CPU more and more for AI (Battlefield 1942 uses up to 25% of the CPU's clockcycles).

The "in fact..." aside has no bearing on the the first statement. What is AI expected to use, the GPU or perhaps the CCF lights adorning the case's window?? BF1942 is generally played for the MP experience so who cares about how demanding the SP AI is anyway -which is user selectable from 10 to 25% of CPU so is no beeg deal and could potentially be less so than most user's crappy software audio.
 

kuk

Platinum Member
Jul 20, 2000
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Originally posted by: fkloster
Intel's main objective with Prescott is getting higher clockspeeds out of Netburst without lowering the IPC.



Athlon 64 = Prescott's daddy!!!

How can Athlon 64 be Prescott's daddy when Athlon 64 is Northwood's brother? :confused:

Ince........ hmmmm ... nevermind. :p
 

Kokomo

Member
Jan 6, 2004
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Refine your discussion. Read my Prescott SiSoftware Sandra & CPUID post on this forum. P4Ps might not be the "be-all, end-all," but here's more fuel for the Intel/AMD fire. Ain't progress wunnerful
rolleye.gif
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
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Let's wait for the shipping product before jumping to conclusions. As I think we saw with the shipping A64 versus the previews,

:) ~ it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.
 

Kokomo

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Jan 6, 2004
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And a big thumbs down to ACE. If you don't own it, and haven't run it, what do you really know? Opinions are like --- fingerprints? "No faster than Northwood," indeed! My P4P 2.8 runs all over P4C 3.2s, and pushes the EE pretty hard. Wonder what the 3.2 and 3.4 will do, especially after the motherboard folks climb aboard?

For that matter, how will AMD respond?
 

Kokomo

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Jan 6, 2004
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Originally posted by: mechBgon
Let's wait for the shipping product before jumping to conclusions. As I think we saw with the shipping A64 versus the previews,

:) ~ it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

Amen! Long live AMD and Intel!

 

Jumpem

Lifer
Sep 21, 2000
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Originally posted by: Kokomo
And a big thumbs down to ACE. If you don't own it, and haven't run it, what do you really know? Opinions are like --- fingerprints? "No faster than Northwood," indeed! My P4P 2.8 runs all over P4C 3.2s, and pushes the EE pretty hard. Wonder what the 3.2 and 3.4 will do, especially after the motherboard folks climb aboard?

For that matter, how will AMD respond?

Can I ask how you are able to use a P4P?
 

Macro2

Diamond Member
May 20, 2000
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RE:"Athlon 64 = Prescott's daddy!!!"

Prescott...Athlon64's bit*ch.

But where does that leave Dell...currently Intels bit*ch?
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
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ostif.org
Originally posted by: Jumpem
Originally posted by: Kokomo
And a big thumbs down to ACE. If you don't own it, and haven't run it, what do you really know? Opinions are like --- fingerprints? "No faster than Northwood," indeed! My P4P 2.8 runs all over P4C 3.2s, and pushes the EE pretty hard. Wonder what the 3.2 and 3.4 will do, especially after the motherboard folks climb aboard?

For that matter, how will AMD respond?

Can I ask how you are able to use a P4P?

He doesnt, reviewers are just getting them now.
 

Kokomo

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Jan 6, 2004
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Originally posted by: Jumpem
Can I ask how you are able to use a P4P?

Got it from a friend in the Philippines. As I understand it, P4Ps have been available there, and elsewhere, for several weeks, albeit in limited quantities, and that fits with Intel's penchant for "filling the pipeline before release." Frankly, I thought it was bogus, but it's real. I paid some $ for it, probably much more than it will cost here, but it's mine, all mine, and I'm the first kid on my block to own one.

Do I need to apologize for being first? I sincerely hope not, because I have no reason or intention, but I am a little p*ssed that WE didn't get it first. In any event, another week or two will tell the story... Hope the "real release" isn't too much better than my "Model A."
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
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Originally posted by: Kokomo
For that matter, how will AMD respond?
I think AMD will respond in a couple of ways: full 64-bit support will grow just like SSE3 support will grow, and AMD is also ramping their performance ratings rather conservatively IMO (look at how they ramped the PR only 6% while ramping clockspeed by 10% between the 3200+ and 3400+). With real-world application performance boosts from 64-bit having already been demonstrated on 64-bit Linux in the range of 30% to 100% performance improvement (media encoding & file compression respectively), there is evidently some mileage to be gotten out of 64-bit.
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
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Originally posted by: mechBgon
Originally posted by: Kokomo
For that matter, how will AMD respond?
I think AMD will respond in a couple of ways: full 64-bit support will grow just like SSE3 support will grow, and AMD is also ramping their performance ratings rather conservatively IMO (look at how they ramped the PR only 6% while ramping clockspeed by 10% between the 3200+ and 3400+). With real-world application performance boosts from 64-bit having already been demonstrated on 64-bit Linux in the range of 30% to 100% performance improvement (media encoding & file compression respectively), there is evidently some mileage to be gotten out of 64-bit.

But... but... Intel says we don't need 64-bit processors yet... :D
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
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Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: mechBgon
Originally posted by: Kokomo
For that matter, how will AMD respond?
I think AMD will respond in a couple of ways: full 64-bit support will grow just like SSE3 support will grow, and AMD is also ramping their performance ratings rather conservatively IMO (look at how they ramped the PR only 6% while ramping clockspeed by 10% between the 3200+ and 3400+). With real-world application performance boosts from 64-bit having already been demonstrated on 64-bit Linux in the range of 30% to 100% performance improvement (media encoding & file compression respectively), there is evidently some mileage to be gotten out of 64-bit.

But... but... Intel says we don't need 64-bit processors yet... :D
That does it... I'm reporting you to the mind-control authorities immediately! :disgust:
 

Kokomo

Member
Jan 6, 2004
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Originally posted by: Acanthus
He doesnt, reviewers are just getting them now.[/quote]

Really? Reviewers? Just now? I'm 5 days into it, and having a ball. Perhaps I will send you this one, gratis, after the formal release. I've been known to do st00pid stuff like that. This one runs on 875/865 boards, and is what some call "unlocked." Who knows what will finally be released and sold?

 

Pandaren

Golden Member
Sep 13, 2003
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He doesnt, reviewers are just getting them now.

AnandTech has had a 2.80 Prescott for some time (several weeks at least) - ask any of the hardware editors if you don't believe me.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
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ostif.org
Originally posted by: Kokomo
Originally posted by: Acanthus
He doesnt, reviewers are just getting them now.

Really? Reviewers? Just now? I'm 5 days into it, and having a ball. Perhaps I will send you this one, gratis, after the formal release. I've been known to do st00pid stuff like that. This one runs on 875/865 boards, and is what some call "unlocked." Who knows what will finally be released and sold?[/quote]

pic?

Motherboards are going to require a bios update minimum to properly support prescotts lower voltage requirements, what HSF are you using with prescott? what motherboard? Where did you get an engineering sample that companies have to sign special agreements saying that they will NEVER trade, sell, or give them away.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
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Originally posted by: Pandaren
He doesnt, reviewers are just getting them now.

AnandTech has had a 2.80 Prescott for some time (several weeks at least) - ask any of the hardware editors if you don't believe me.

That doesnt mean joe schmoe 55 post who claims it gives an EE a run for its money has one :p .