PREDICTION: Microsoft will lose hard on this generation.

[torpid]

I use my PS3 for Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. and it works great. I have no reason to think the PS4 will work less well at that. And so far it's only online gaming that requires PSN+ not Netflix, so (unlike Xbox) I have the option of watching Netflix without paying an extra $50/year.

X1 will finally have blu-ray, but I expect Sony's playback will be as good or better since they've been offering it since 2006. And I try not to use my 360 to watch DVDs because the image quality is not as good as on my PS3.

My PS3 netflix is stellar. The Prime is mediocre and has gotten worse over time. And the lack of HBO Go really irks me.

 

[torpid]

I would say PSN Plus is way more value than Live Gold. Sony also doesn't put third party services (such at Netflix) behind their own paywall. Is also 50 for 12 months, not 60.

Ah. My mistake, I was thinking of the Eye. Realistically Xbox Gold is also $45-50. So roughly a wash I guess.

 

[Mitsurux]

So you think the used game market is hurting developers more than cutting out the Playstation market entirely? :wub:

I think nothing of the sort.... but my fear is that 3rd party developers/publisher do and could see the XB1 as their "Safe haven" thus sending more exclusives its way... (hurting PS4 and WiiU... but since that original post it appears that PS4 will allow publishers to do as they wish in regard to DRM or on-line passes.. )

 

[blurredvision]

I would say PSN Plus is way more value than Live Gold. Sony also doesn't put third party services (such at Netflix) behind their own paywall. Is also 50 for 12 months, not 60.

Technically, Microsoft putting third-party apps behind the paywall makes Live Gold more valuable. 😉

 

[purbeast0]

I think nothing of the sort.... but my fear is that 3rd party developers/publisher do and could see the XB1 as their "Safe haven" thus sending more exclusives its way... (hurting PS4 and WiiU... but since that original post it appears that PS4 will allow publishers to do as they wish in regard to DRM or on-line passes.. )

here's the quote from exdeath that explains why that makes no sense financially for any company...

No worries. If you had to choose between 80k copies on XB1 and 40k copies on PS3 (less due to used copies) or JUST 80k on XB1, when making both is a simple checkbox and #ifndef

Sony knew this and called the bluffs.

 

[Mitsurux]

here's the quote from exdeath that explains why that makes no sense financially for any company...

It really doesn't matter anymore since Sony has said thrid parties can do as they please with DRM and on-line passes...

 

[Midwayman]

Wow does anyone actually think that kids and what mom and pop do drive the console market anymore? Its matured. Mostly late 20-early 30's and male. Even though kids do have some participation in the market the attach rate is really low for them.

As for the image
-You can lend games- just add them to your family list. They can play your library.
-Renting games hasn't been banned, it just hasn't been announced.
-less trade in credit is just speculation. Nobody really know how it'll work out yet.


MS has done an exceptionally poor job of explaining the benefits of making everything effectively DD. They pretty much have gone out of their way to give the anti-ms crowd ammo.

In any case it is way too early to call who has won anything. I'm still really interested in the xb1 for its media features, and hopefully IPTV service, etc. I preordered both consoles and will wait for more news before deciding on one.

 

[KaOTiK]

It really doesn't matter anymore since Sony has said thrid parties can do as they please with DRM and on-line passes...

Just like they currently can on the PS3 and 360.

 

[Mitsurux]

Just like they currently can on the PS3 and 360.

Correct, i was thinking along the lines of a doomsday scenario... (From all of the comments in the past that publishers have made on the "evils" of used game sales)

 

[American Gunner]

Technically, Microsoft putting third-party apps behind the paywall makes Live Gold more valuable. 😉

Haha, I was actually thinking the same thing.

 

[dpodblood]

Just like they currently can on the PS3 and 360.

Exactly. Hence online passes.

 

[KaOTiK]

As for the image
-You can lend games- just add them to your family list. They can play your library.
-Renting games hasn't been banned, it just hasn't been announced.
-less trade in credit is just speculation. Nobody really know how it'll work out yet.


MS has done an exceptionally poor job of explaining the benefits of making everything effectively DD. They pretty much have gone out of their way to give the anti-ms crowd ammo.
.

We have no idea how the family system works. It will probably entail a master account with child accounts under it. Also, we do not know if multiple people can play at the sametime from that library or the same game.

As for renting games, they made the official statement they are looking into it.

Less trade in, it is speculation but who do you think is going to take the hit when it comes to the publisher getting a cut of the used game sale? You think gamespot is willing to? We know the publisher isn't, that leaves the last person in the equation, you.

Now, a bit more on the rental thing as this is still rumored, but I bring it up because the guy who leaked it leaked a bunch of other stuff that has been proven correct and he has an excellent track record so far (CBOAT from neogaf). The rumor is that MS isn't even looking into doing rentals and they are basically blowing smoke up everyones asses to get the heat off, which in reality sounds pretty damn plausible.


I will agree that MS has done a poor job explaining things even when they try and clear things up they leave things muddy. I think some of this is on purpose to leave some hope/confusion that things aren't as bad as they appear.

 

[purbeast0]

It really doesn't matter anymore since Sony has said thrid parties can do as they please with DRM and on-line passes...

yeah so basically, the ps4 will be exactly how the 360 and ps3 currently are.

 

[purbeast0]

i can also tell you that it DEFINITELY is NOT just us nerds on internet forums who care about this info and are hearing about it. i heard the MS DRM stuff on 2 sports talk radio shows yesterday on the way home from work. it was on the 2 main sports radio stations around here, on the main primetime shows on the way home from work.

additionally, every friend of mine and coworker (some who watched the e3 stuff, some who just read about it) and my little brother (who doesn't even know what e3 is and doesn't go on any websites other than facebook and twitter) all knew about the bullshit drm/used game stuff and everyone of them except for myself said they won't be getting the xbox1.

so it is definitely not just us forum nerds who are being effected by this.

 

[torpid]

yeah so basically, the ps4 will be exactly how the 360 and ps3 currently are.

Maybe. I'm guessing some companies will invest extra time and effort into DRM on the PS4 to match what they get relatively easily on the Xbox One. I have no idea what percentage will, however. Certainly not 100% or 0%.

 

[kami]

MS has done an exceptionally poor job of explaining the benefits of making everything effectively DD. They pretty much have gone out of their way to give the anti-ms crowd ammo.

Yeah, just really terrible PR. It all started with the Adam Orth thing and has spiraled out of control since then.

 

[cmdrdredd]

1. A DDoS attack on the scale it would require to shut down Azure (which is what MS is using for Live as well) is unthinkable. Azure does not go down. That is MS's business model. A DDoS can't take down Google either. You're better off worrying about the NSA tracking your game play.

2. Please site source for Armed Forces being banned from the Xbox One. I have a ton of friends currently in the military, and if someone had been said, I'd have seen it posted on Facebook. Again, source or you're full of BS. MS already said they were working on a solution for deployed troops.

3. I can't see the image due to it being blocked by my work, so I can only assume it is more silliness.

4. The Kinect doesn't sit always on, always watching and your system can be completely turned off. They demo'd a low power mode feature to show off something cool and novel, which consumers love.

EDIT: I should say, I think the PS4 will "win" this generation, but not by a large margin. Early adoption the PS4 might surge, but I see them becoming fairly equal after awhile. I think MS will have bigger blockbuster exclusive titles that generate enough sales to catch up to Sony's early lead this holiday season.

for #2 where do you get a broadband connection to phone home every 24 hours before it bricks?

 

[torpid]

Yeah, just really terrible PR. It all started with the Adam Orth thing and has spiraled out of control since then.

Microsoft failing at PR after a product announcement? Shocking! :sneaky:

 

[cmdrdredd]

Technically, Microsoft putting third-party apps behind the paywall makes Live Gold more valuable. 😉

Not really...when everyone can netflix from even their phone and itouch.

 

[smackababy]

for #2 where do you get a broadband connection to phone home every 24 hours before it bricks?

The console doesn't brick. It is not like it will never function again. MS has already stated they are working on a solution. There are very few bases that do no have internet connectivity. Outside of Afghanistan, I don't think any have no internet.

And he specifically said they are banned, as in there is some statement from the Sec. of the Army or someone saying "due to the cloud restrictions, servicemen are disallowed from using the Xbox One". Yes, it will be difficult while you're in a combat zone to play Xbox One. The amount of troops deployed in locations without internet is such a small number compared to the total amount of troops.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The console doesn't brick. It is not like it will never function again. MS has already stated they are working on a solution. There are very few bases that do no have internet connectivity. Outside of Afghanistan, I don't think any have no internet.

And he specifically said they are banned, as in there is some statement from the Sec. of the Army or someone saying "due to the cloud restrictions, servicemen are disallowed from using the Xbox One". Yes, it will be difficult while you're in a combat zone to play Xbox One. The amount of troops deployed in locations without internet is such a small number compared to the total amount of troops.

If you don't phone home it's a brick until it does. That's the end of it.

 

[Topweasel]

here's the quote from exdeath that explains why that makes no sense financially for any company...

That's BS and anyone with a brain larger than a goldfish should know that even less than MS and Apple, is Sony when it comes to consumer rights. Probably when MS was announcing that Sony was slapping their forheads going "why didn't we think of that". Only afterwards finding out that they actually dodged a bullet.

It's easy to see what happened MS wanted fully installed libraries where people weren't playing disc shuffles allowing them to interchange between Blu-Rays, games, tv, internet streaming, while limiting the times they had to get up and do something. It's obvious that Sony went the standard media route and at minimum requires the disc for verification. If Sony tried to go the fully installed media route you would see the same thing.

Sony is going to come out of this smelling like roses, but don't believe for one second its because of some kind of foresight. If they had that, then they would have done the same thing as Microsoft, because again they have established over and over again that these types of security systems are right up their alley.

 

[Topweasel]

If you don't phone home it's a brick until it does. That's the end of it.

It's probably going to be something simple but drawn out like associating your live account with some registry and it flips some bit on your user so the console OS doesn't de-authorize a game if you haven't connected in a while.

 

[Midwayman]

We have no idea how the family system works. It will probably entail a master account with child accounts under it. Also, we do not know if multiple people can play at the sametime from that library or the same game.

As for renting games, they made the official statement they are looking into it.

Less trade in, it is speculation but who do you think is going to take the hit when it comes to the publisher getting a cut of the used game sale? You think gamespot is willing to? We know the publisher isn't, that leaves the last person in the equation, you.

Now, a bit more on the rental thing as this is still rumored, but I bring it up because the guy who leaked it leaked a bunch of other stuff that has been proven correct and he has an excellent track record so far (CBOAT from neogaf). The rumor is that MS isn't even looking into doing rentals and they are basically blowing smoke up everyones asses to get the heat off, which in reality sounds pretty damn plausible.

They said one other person from that list of 10 can play your library. I guess we will see on other details. It does sound like an avenue for sharing.

Trade in credit there was an article awhile back that the store can sell for whatever it wants, but they get a set % of the sale price- presumably % of profit. No MS official- leaked info. So no particular incentive to drive down trade in rates vs now. Still its leaked info, so questionable accuracy.

I dont know if I buy no rentals when they have an effective control scheme. They could charge more for a rental license. They could ask for a cut every time it is rented.. Heck they could sell full discs that time limit for near rental prices and then the option to fully unlock with the rental price credited towards it at the end of the rental. Who knows. I'll give you that rental price likely will go up as a result of whatever MS does decide to do though.

 

[BeeBoop]

I feel most of your arguments are weak. The only thing that might prevent Microsoft from penetrating the mainstream market is the price tag. If the XboX One is sold out this Christmas season, I see the One as surpassing the PS4 two years from now simply because it's advertised as a machine that can do more than the PS4. When Best Buy and other stores put up the One and PS4 up for display, the One will have a bigger crowd around the machine simply because people will be dancing and using voice commands to play while the PS4 will have people holding controllers. The Xbox One will practically sell itself to the mainstream market just by displaying what it can do.

Issue here is that people are still going to want to have their tablet/smartphone devices regardless of what overlapping functionality the ONE has. I doubt very much that a large portion of users are going to purchase a ONE just to get similar features from their console. There may be an argument for it if the ONE had the ability to replace your cable box, but it simply doesn't.

This argument is weak because the XboX One is not advertising itself as a replacement for a tablet or smartphone. It's being advertised as a hub to use in conjunction with your smart devices, by the way of Smartglass.

It's nice that the ONE can do all that smart glass pairing stuff and all, but that's more of a "hey that's pretty neat" than functionality that's really a system seller. TBH my personal sentiment, and the sentiment that I hear from a lot of other people is that they don't want to use voice commands or gestures to control their system. It's just as easy (and a lot less embarrassing) to do with a remote or a controller.

This argument is weak because "Pretty Neat" functionality is what sells iphones, ipads, Samsung phones, the Wii, and other devices to the mainstream market. Being unique and innovative sells products. We know this already.

I would argue the casual gamers who were attracted to the Wii and the iPad are not the audience that the Xbox is catering to. Yes they are to a small degree with crappy kinect and other casual games, but they are not making a big play in that arena at the moment. I think the iPad/tablet market has taken a lot of that potential away from the console space anyway. And again the hardcore audience will influence people who pick up a next gen system later down the line.

Pinch to Zoom on phones is the same thing as Grab and Zoom on the One, which is why it seems to me that the mainstream market is exactly what they are targeting. Your argument that the ipad and tablet has taken a lot away from the consoles would also hurt PS4 sales so it really doesn't fit in the PS4 vs XboX one debate. XboX one is trying to position itself as a machine to work along side those devices, creating it's own unique market.

Would be a fair point if most steam users weren't getting most of their games at %50-%90 off. I consider myself pretty hardcore and I still only but 2-3 full price games per year digitally. And you have to also factor in expectations. When people buy a digital game they don't have the expectation (right or wrong) that they should be able to resell the game. The same cannot be said of a physical disk. There is also the issue of being able to use these games in the future. Once the ONE reaches the end of it's lifetime what happens to your games? Do they take the servers hosting all this content offline? Are you still going to be able to access your games in 20-30 years time? With Steam and other PC distribution platforms there is no "next generation." You can continue to access all your content unless Valve somehow goes out of business.

Steam games are cheap because they sell a lot of old games. New releases are always full price. Is there any reason to believe that Microsoft wouldn't sell cross platform old games for the same price as Steam? Green Man sells old cross platform games just as cheap as steam, why wouldn't Microsoft do the same? There's a lot of bad publicity working against Microsoft's DRM right now but it'll pass and people will realize that they really don't care, just like they don't care that Steam games can't be resold.