PREDICTION: Microsoft will lose hard on this generation.

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BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
I am really disappointed Microsoft decided to remove the DRM. It makes the decision about which console to get more about the technical merits of the hardware, software and games and not a completely one sided choice. They are still weaker on hardware but the DRM made it a really obvious no buy choice for Cicrosoft.

Microsoft doesn't seem to know how to give its customers what they want and at the same time improve. We see this on Windows 8 as well with the daft start screen which makes no sense for desktop users at all. In the process of listening to their customers feedback there they will be adding a start button back, which isn't the issue.

I don't think they Microsoft fundamentally understands, they clearly have not been paying attention to the DRM debate over the past 5 years and how deeply negative customers have become towards it. I don't trust the other visions of the future generation they have decided to include in the console either, a lot of the devil is in the details. Microsoft just doesn't seem to know how to make its customers happy, its convinced the way forward is to force changes that people don't want.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I am really disappointed Microsoft decided to remove the DRM. It makes the decision about which console to get more about the technical merits of the hardware, software and games and not a completely one sided choice. They are still weaker on hardware but the DRM made it a really obvious no buy choice for Cicrosoft.

Microsoft doesn't seem to know how to give its customers what they want and at the same time improve. We see this on Windows 8 as well with the daft start screen which makes no sense for desktop users at all. In the process of listening to their customers feedback there they will be adding a start button back, which isn't the issue.

I don't think they Microsoft fundamentally understands, they clearly have not been paying attention to the DRM debate over the past 5 years and how deeply negative customers have become towards it. I don't trust the other visions of the future generation they have decided to include in the console either, a lot of the devil is in the details. Microsoft just doesn't seem to know how to make its customers happy, its convinced the way forward is to force changes that people don't want.

The start button in windows 8.1 is the metro ui button. Not a windows 7 start button. Just a heads up
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Its never been about making customers happy, its always been about how to take their money in the most shady and effortless way possible, including vendor lock in, incomplete games with day 0 DLC, double dipping the used market, etc

You're dead wrong if you think either Sony or Microsoft aren't thinking of how to achieve the same thing more subtly in the future.
 
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DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
So they're giving you a box to click instead of just the corner of the screen. Great.

That actually will be nice - I'm forced to use Win 8 for some development at work, and I keep launching IE when I want to click Start, because IE is now the corner icon. I haven't installed any of the "make it be like 7" apps because I want standard behavior for testing.

But anyway.

MS 180: dropping disc DRM = good, taking away unrelated digital purchase sharing features for no reason = bad.

Since sharing was never explained consistently (1 player or 2 depending on the interview) or completely (how is a "family" managed and what are the rules), I'm still suspicious that they offered us this plan without getting agreement from the publishers on the details.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
I think what all this has really shown is how tired the closed hardware business model has become. They are cooking up too many policies and gating too many features behind paywalls and restrictions compared to what else is available for the consumer. I think Steam will slowly wick its way into replacing the corporate console landscape over the next 8-10 years. Especially when MS and Sony start looking more like Steam but offering less. Either that or Apple TV will take the casuals away. With the announcement to developers that the SDK is getting gaming specific features and official controller support, it may only be a matter of time.
 

RedRooster

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
6,596
0
76
I think what all this has really shown is how tired the closed hardware business model has become. They are cooking up too many policies and gating too many features behind paywalls and restrictions compared to what else is available for the consumer. I think Steam will slowly wick its way into replacing the corporate console landscape over the next 8-10 years. Especially when MS and Sony start looking more like Steam but offering less. Either that or Apple TV will take the casuals away. With the announcement to developers that the SDK is getting gaming specific features and official controller support, it may only be a matter of time.

In theory that sounds nice, but there's just way too many(in a good way) people who want that "Playstation" or "Xbox" sitting under their tv.
I hate to say it, but until Apple or Steam get that whole console experience, they won't make a dent. It's more than just calling PS and XB glorified computers(even though they kind of are now). That's probably why PC guys don't understand it and hate us.
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
81
I have two words for you:

Installed base

Once you have your system in enough homes, with enough support, and MOST importantly, enough software invested, you've got them by the nuts. Sure, it will still hurt your image to some degree, and people will froth and wail online, but they've got an install base, and if they do it sneakily enough, can add in more and more "policies" slowly but surely as the years go on.

This is my biggest fear.

It's not unlike the RRoD scenario. People (myself included) had too much invested in software and other accessories to just throw up their hands and go to Sony.

It'll depend on what and how (again if they did) they decide to "reimplement" this stuff, but given the right timing, I don't think it would be the nail in the coffin to the majority audience that you and I think it is (and should be).

I take it you're referring to a hypothetical scenario in which people buy back into the Xbox One, only to get burned after they are already invested in it?

Because there's nothing tying current 360 owners to Microsoft going forward, beyond maybe replacing their 360 if it dies. The Xbox One has no backwards compatibility.
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,589
0
76
4zyFQnF.jpg
 

American Gunner

Platinum Member
Aug 26, 2010
2,399
0
71
I take it you're referring to a hypothetical scenario in which people buy back into the Xbox One, only to get burned after they are already invested in it?

Because there's nothing tying current 360 owners to Microsoft going forward, beyond maybe replacing their 360 if it dies. The Xbox One has no backwards compatibility.
Peoples friends list will do a lot when it comes to choosing a system. I will say one thing, I would be surprised if MS has more sales at the end of next gen. Sony did catch up, even though they came out a year later and had a really high price. I have seen several Xbox guys say they are jumping to Sony, but I don't remember ever seeing a Sony guy was going with Xbox next gen.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
Peoples friends list will do a lot when it comes to choosing a system. I will say one thing, I would be surprised if MS has more sales at the end of next gen. Sony did catch up, even though they came out a year later and had a really high price. I have seen several Xbox guys say they are jumping to Sony, but I don't remember ever seeing a Sony guy was going with Xbox next gen.

I feel like MS is trying to pull a Wii this generation. Capture the larger casual market and not worry as much about the hardcore gamers.
 

American Gunner

Platinum Member
Aug 26, 2010
2,399
0
71
I feel like MS is trying to pull a Wii this generation. Capture the larger casual market and not worry as much about the hardcore gamers.
The crappy thing for me is that most of my friends had this mind set of MS or nothing next gen. They weren't even willing to give Sony a chance. So they will just buy into the next xbox because it will give them COD and their sports games, and won't care about any other games.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I never worry about what my friends play. They are all CoD or WoW bastards. In fact...of all my main friends only a few that play on PC, and none of the ones who actually do play PC play the same games I do and I get along just fine. Too many other people to play with on the internet to let your friends lack of information or mainstream-ness dictate what you do or get new friends.

I digress though, I'm not in high school or college, and I assume that makes a difference (no offense, it's just how the world works).
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,038
5,920
126
I feel like MS is trying to pull a Wii this generation. Capture the larger casual market and not worry as much about the hardcore gamers.

that is a pretty delusional statement to make for a $500 piece of equipment.

the wii was 1/2 of that at launch AND came with a game.
 

erwos

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2005
4,778
0
76
that is a pretty delusional statement to make for a $500 piece of equipment.

the wii was 1/2 of that at launch AND came with a game.
Interesting premise, though: what if they launched with a port of Wii Sports 1+2 included? Would that help make up some of the price differential, and increase desirability to casuals?
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,038
5,920
126
Interesting premise, though: what if they launched with a port of Wii Sports 1+2 included? Would that help make up some of the price differential, and increase desirability to casuals?

"casuals" don't usually go and spend $500 on consoles. and it isn't like the xbox1 has a new gimmicky control scheme built in like the wii did. it has a kinect, which the xbox360 had, and most people seem to not like it.
 

erwos

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2005
4,778
0
76
"casuals" don't usually go and spend $500 on consoles. and it isn't like the xbox1 has a new gimmicky control scheme built in like the wii did. it has a kinect, which the xbox360 had, and most people seem to not like it.
Hey, casuals weren't spending $300 on consoles before the Wii came along, and all that did for them was play Wii Sports. Not to mention that they had to buy more controllers to play Wii Sports... I dunno, maybe the differential isn't as huge as you think, especially seven years later.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,213
671
136
that is a pretty delusional statement to make for a $500 piece of equipment.

the wii was 1/2 of that at launch AND came with a game.

It's the normal mindset that if the console maker isn't talking directly about the game style you want to play they aren't catering to you. If the maker decides to attempt anything new to bring in new users it's shafting it niche fanboys, like somehow motion controls would cause no one to make CoD.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
The crappy thing for me is that most of my friends had this mind set of MS or nothing next gen. They weren't even willing to give Sony a chance. So they will just buy into the next xbox because it will give them COD and their sports games, and won't care about any other games.

All those games are on PS4 too...I don't even understand their argument lol
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
that is a pretty delusional statement to make for a $500 piece of equipment.

the wii was 1/2 of that at launch AND came with a game.

Lets not compete on specs alone-check
Gimick controller- Check (not new, but required now)

Plus all the focus on media functions seems like they are trying to broaden their market. Comparatively PS4 is a narrowly focused gaming system aimed directly at the hard core gaming market.

Not say its going to work, but I think the Wii showed there might be an audience outside of core gamers and MS listened.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Lets not compete on specs alone-check
Gimick controller- Check (not new, but required now)

Plus all the focus on media functions seems like they are trying to broaden their market. Comparatively PS4 is a narrowly focused gaming system aimed directly at the hard core gaming market.

Not say its going to work, but I think the Wii showed there might be an audience outside of core gamers and MS listened.

MS's move with the hardware makes sense. The Kinect was insanely popular, especially costing $100+ for a peripheral.
Hardware specs mean very little, so long as they are close enough, especially for console gamers.

And XBMC is super popular, because guess what? People wanted media functions on their Xbox! MS figures by having a dedicated team and the money to leverage players in the TV realm to join in, they can beat XBMC and most HTPCs. The average consumer will go in to a store and look at the two consoles. They will think "Well, the PS4 is cheaper, but the Xbox One offers more 'features' I find intriguing and I can get a Kinect with it." MS is hoping they will go for the extra features over the pure gaming Sony is selling.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Lets not compete on specs alone-check
Gimick controller- Check (not new, but required now)

Plus all the focus on media functions seems like they are trying to broaden their market. Comparatively PS4 is a narrowly focused gaming system aimed directly at the hard core gaming market.

Not say its going to work, but I think the Wii showed there might be an audience outside of core gamers and MS listened.

For $500? Hah...my friends who are not gamers won't even spend $200 on a console.

MS's move with the hardware makes sense. The Kinect was insanely popular, especially costing $100+ for a peripheral.
Hardware specs mean very little, so long as they are close enough, especially for console gamers.

And XBMC is super popular, because guess what? People wanted media functions on their Xbox! MS figures by having a dedicated team and the money to leverage players in the TV realm to join in, they can beat XBMC and most HTPCs. The average consumer will go in to a store and look at the two consoles. They will think "Well, the PS4 is cheaper, but the Xbox One offers more 'features' I find intriguing and I can get a Kinect with it." MS is hoping they will go for the extra features over the pure gaming Sony is selling.

Specs mean a ton. When all the new games in a couple years start running and looking better on PS4, MS will wish they had the same capabilities. People walk into Best Buy and watch the demos. They'll see the difference and make a choice.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
It's the normal mindset that if the console maker isn't talking directly about the game style you want to play they aren't catering to you. If the maker decides to attempt anything new to bring in new users it's shafting it niche fanboys, like somehow motion controls would cause no one to make CoD.

Not really, it's *forcing* us to buy something we don't care for when we care about the console. If they had separate packages or the Kinect was sold separate, there'd be no issues.

On the other hand, if they came out and said every game will require you to interact with the Kinect, then I simply wouldn't buy the console.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,038
5,920
126
Hey, casuals weren't spending $300 on consoles before the Wii came along, and all that did for them was play Wii Sports. Not to mention that they had to buy more controllers to play Wii Sports... I dunno, maybe the differential isn't as huge as you think, especially seven years later.

you did not need extra controllers to play wii sports you could take turns for a bunch of the mini games. actually extra controllers were in limited supply for months after the console was out too.

and $500 is double the price. had you told people they needed to buy 2 wii's to experience the new motion control (again, a new tech, x1 has none), i don't think as many people would have gotten one at all.

also, the wii is NOTHING like the x1 (or 360 for that matter) as far as a media center goes. i am pretty sure nintendo took out even the dvd movie functionality on later wii models.