Pre-Triggered: Feminists, Christians, Atheists, and so on...

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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
The tricky part there is "natural world" ... that covers an awful lot of ground. Pretty much all of it in fact including every single thing done by people. (and everything else that exists for that matter)

And its absolutely arrogant to claim you 100% know something that you actually don't. Especially if you then proceed to try convincing others.

Anyway I'll pass on the rest of Philosophy 101 for tonight thanks. ;)

Natural World doesn't have any "Evil" that isn't well understood. Earthquakes, damaging Weather, Disease, Predatory Animals, Radiation, Meteors, etc. What "Evil" is there outside of these understood phenomena?
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,316
10,814
136
Natural World doesn't have any "Evil" that isn't well understood. Earthquakes, damaging Weather, Disease, Predatory Animals, Radiation, Meteors, etc. What "Evil" is there outside of these understood phenomena?



I have no idea ... and neither do you. :cool:

I realize its frustrating.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
Natural World doesn't have any "Evil" that isn't well understood. Earthquakes, damaging Weather, Disease, Predatory Animals, Radiation, Meteors, etc. What "Evil" is there outside of these understood phenomena?
Where did evil come from? It had to originate from somewhere? Enquiring minds want to know.....
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,316
10,814
136
There are no reasons to believe such things exist if there are no signs of them. It's not frustrating at all.


It certainly appears frustrating for you in some way .... you seem to care a whole lot about convincing me of something.

Not really sure what.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
Where did evil come from? It had to originate from somewhere? Enquiring minds want to know.....

"Evil" is just Bad Action or Harmful Event. Earthquakes come from Tectonic Plates, Volcanoes from surfacing Lava, sometimes a hungry animal sees you and makes you dinner, etc. It is not an Entity with Agency, it is something we find especially undesirable.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
It certainly appears frustrating for you in some way .... you seem to care a whole lot about convincing me of something.

Not really sure what.

I certainly care about it, but what "Evil" is itself is not frustrating. What is frustrating is the continued use of Superstition to dismiss Evil as something we have no control over, because that is not true. When we understand what these things are we can make decisions, technology, and perform actions to mitigate and even eliminate these things. If we held to these Superstitions, we would still cower at the simplest of things and become victims of other things like Disease when we don't need to.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
I certainly care about it, but what "Evil" is itself is not frustrating. What is frustrating is the continued use of Superstition to dismiss Evil as something we have no control over, because that is not true. When we understand what these things are we can make decisions, technology, and perform actions to mitigate and even eliminate these things. If we held to these Superstitions, we would still cower at the simplest of things and become victims of other things like Disease when we don't need to.
I’ve taken to reviewing the literature regarding sociological grand narratives, institutions and conformity/deviance.

I've concluded that you are mostly right - it’s clear biblical accounts of “kingdoms of the air” and “slavery to good or evil” is an early way of addressing things like institutional vocabularies and taken for granted assumptions.

At the level of the “bad action and harmful event” due to social constructs - religion offers both a minimally accurate description and a useful handle on personal identity narrative change.

The deeper evil is that it’s also a useful handle for CREATING socially constructed harmful events :-(.
 
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mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
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This question been burning in my mind, about the question of evil. I don't believe in the actual physical manifestation of evil as a demon,i do believe in whats known in my belief system as the "Three-fold Law". Its slightly Karmic in nature,ironically what connected to me is VERY karmic in nature, and i seen it been acted 3x over. Many a time in a fact,especially against those who hurt children. Its a strong virtue of this deity even given my own life experiences. Your mileage will vary, for me it works overtime trust and believe.

The Rule of Three (also Three-fold Law or Law of Return) is a religious tenet held by some Wiccans/Pagans and occultists. It states that whatever energy a person puts out into the world, be it positive or negative, will be returned to that person three times. Some subscribe to a variant of this law in which return is not necessarily threefold.

As far as spiritual, i can only guarantee from my own experience and 7 other kids when i was 13, there is a place and its honestly here. Its unseen to most, many people forget our bodies contain electricity and i believe that is where our "soul" or "spiriti" gets contained in. I think depending on the "spiritual" energy someone gathered, they go to 2 places. Either they ground and go back into the earth, or they possibly just MAYBE manifest into a energy many just identify as ghost/angel/wanderer perhaps? This energy may explain the deity that attaches to me, and the other various deities in history for other people. Only other thing i can offer as possible proof besides my insane experience at 13 is what do people use to see ghosts often times? A emf reader.
 
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Feb 25, 2011
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Are people starting off pre-triggered?

No matter what one says, if you don't immediately PROVE you are on their team you are the enemy.

Most groups have their little spins on words and meanings that they use to identify people in the "in" group. It's an old idea (the shibboleth.) Since everything is on the internet, we can also be aware of the code phrases used by the groups that are already known to be "the enemy."

"The enemy" in this case are groups that are diametrically opposed to us philosophically or who deny our right to existence. African Americans and Jews are, for instance, can be completely aware of the code-words the KKK uses to talk about them.

If you're socially ignorant and end up tripping on your own dick because you use group A coding to talk to a member of group B and tacitly endorse the idea that they should be thrown in an internment camp, that's usually a hilarious misunderstanding that can be cleared up, but not if you double down on it, insist you're right to use a certain word or phrase in a certain way, and generally make an ass of yourself.

I've seen this with feminists: who somehow think "female" is an evil word...

Because dames don't like it when you call them broads.

"Female" is for genitals, animal husbandry, and USB cables. Human beings in a social setting are "women". It's just manners.

And it's been manners for a long-ass time. Back in the '80s when the Ferengi in Star Trek: TNG were introduced and they referred to the Enterprise-D crew as "females" it was supposed to be jarring and dehumanizing. That was the point.

It doesn't help that the incel crowd is so firmly in the "female" camp - they define women by their sexual role (as THEY define it) and promote the idea that they're NPCs or whatever - a prize to be won, devoid of will or self-determination.

It's usually a good idea to be visibly doing the opposite of whatever incels do.

I've seen this with Christians: who somehow think "forgiveness" is an evil word...

Because "forgiveness" is frequently used as a bludgeon by people who don't want to respect the distinction between forgiveness and forgetfulness. (You OWE me forgiveness, as I define it, otherwise you're a bad person, therefore you shouldn't hold my past actions against me or treat me different after I've wronged you, otherwise you're a hypocrite!)

Most people, regardless of their belief system, or how internally consistent it is (or isn't) don't really like being lectured to about what they do or do not believe based on other peoples' understanding (or willful misunderstanding) of a certain label.

Within their community, Christians will discuss forgiveness, but they'll frame it in the larger context of a sin, a sinner, contrition, penance, restitution, etc., and what the obligations are of the forgiver and forgivee. If you're jumping straight to forgiveness, you're probably up to something.

I've seen this with Atheists: who somehow think "evil" is an evil word...

Well, we do get called "evil" a lot, by folks who profess to believe that we are incapable of moral or ethical behavior, lying about our lack of faith, worship Satan, are bound and determined to kill or rape somebody if we ever get the opportunity, or are literally demonic, because we don't believe as they do.

It gets tiresome.

People who aren't interested in writing nonbelievers off as Satan's Literal Spawn and a Blight Upon Christendom And Western Civilization Which Must Be Expunged aren't usually leading with the term.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
Most groups have their little spins on words and meanings that they use to identify people in the "in" group. It's an old idea (the shibboleth.) Since everything is on the internet, we can also be aware of the code phrases used by the groups that are already known to be "the enemy."

"The enemy" in this case are groups that are diametrically opposed to us philosophically or who deny our right to existence. African Americans and Jews are, for instance, can be completely aware of the code-words the KKK uses to talk about them.



Because dames don't like it when you call them broads.

"Female" is for genitals, animal husbandry, and USB cables. Human beings in a social setting are "women". It's just manners.

And it's been manners for a long-ass time. Back in the '80s when the Ferengi in Star Trek: TNG were introduced and they referred to the Enterprise-D crew as "females" it was supposed to be jarring and dehumanizing. That was the point.

It doesn't help that the incel crowd is so firmly in the "female" camp - they define women by their sexual role (as THEY define it) and promote the idea that they're NPCs or whatever - a prize to be won, devoid of will or self-determination.

It's usually a good idea to be visibly doing the opposite of whatever incels do.



Because "forgiveness" is frequently used as a bludgeon by people who don't want to respect the distinction between forgiveness and forgetfulness. (You OWE me forgiveness, as I define it, otherwise you're a bad person, therefore you shouldn't hold my past actions against me or treat me different after I've wronged you, otherwise you're a hypocrite!)

Most people, regardless of their belief system, or how internally consistent it is (or isn't) don't really like being lectured to about what they do or do not believe based on other peoples' understanding (or willful misunderstanding) of a certain label.

Within their community, Christians will discuss forgiveness, but they'll frame it in the larger context of a sin, a sinner, contrition, penance, restitution, etc., and what the obligations are of the forgiver and forgivee. If you're jumping straight to forgiveness, you're probably up to something.



Well, we do get called "evil" a lot, by folks who profess to believe that we are incapable of moral or ethical behavior, lying about our lack of faith, worship Satan, are bound and determined to kill or rape somebody if we ever get the opportunity, or are literally demonic, because we don't believe as they do.

It gets tiresome.

People who aren't interested in writing nonbelievers off as Satan's Literal Spawn and a Blight Upon Christendom And Western Civilization Which Must Be Expunged aren't usually leading with the term.
I agree with everything quoted here. Clearly male-female gendered relationships come up all the time, the distinction isn't always jarring, and it isn't always gender vs. sex in every day usage. Everyday usage is the basic meaning one should be expected to resolve to unless otherwise noted. The Farengi situation is FE-male, a specific intonation is used to get across the sexist meaning. All the same, it's no sweat off my back to follow the bouncing ball and change; for reasons you aptly articulate with the "dames broads" distinction. I just want to know the logic, which brings me to this:

If you're socially ignorant and end up tripping on your own dick because you use group A coding to talk to a member of group B and tacitly endorse the idea that they should be thrown in an internment camp, that's usually a hilarious misunderstanding that can be cleared up, but not if you double down on it, insist you're right to use a certain word or phrase in a certain way, and generally make an ass of yourself.
This is my concern. You've clearly delineated the rationale behind these various shibboleth, which I applaud you for. When I am aware of them and see people implying genocide, I try to help out too.

The difficulty I have is that you seem quite wrong about the "cleared up" part. As, while I've learned to stop doubling down and try to carefully draw out an answer to what this new Shibboleth is all about - it takes absolutely being marked as evil in incarnate if I do anything but immediately admit fault and change my mind: no questions allowed.

Now that's my experience, and no doubt I've lived the privileged life of a person dedicated to mental pursuits - but isn't the POINT of a shibboleth to NOT let people in?
 

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
8,257
713
126
Quality of life has become too good and people have less to worry about so they have turned into deeming everything a micro aggression and attempting to find fault in the smallest of issues.

  • Between food stamps and food banks no one is going hungry
  • Everyone has a mobile phone the smart kind
  • Low cost internet plans
  • Free laptops/tablets from the school districts
  • Drugs are cheap and plentiful - (thanks Mexico for flooding us with fentanyl from China, uncut Meth from chemicals supplied by China, quality indoor grown weed, and of course the massive amount of opium/heroin that is grown and processed in Mexico)
  • HVAC - the AC kind
  • Kardashian's on the Gram
  • Netflix and Chill for all your streaming needs
  • Professional sports for betting
  • Lottery tickets to dream big
  • Incarceration rates are at an all time low as petty theft such as shoplifting or auto burglary is no longer a crime deemed worthy of incarceration
So yeah your menial jobs are going away as we focus on automation (unreal what automated strawberry picking looks like) and people are starting to figure out the system isn't benefiting them, but only folks like Bezos & Zuck the droid.

People are pissed - they will continue to get livid over the smallest of things as they no longer se meaning their trivial lives.

Need more dope to keep the people sedated! (Dope = sports, the Gram, drugs)






 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
The game of being offended is a competition sport these days. People seem to have forgotten how to turn off the TV, walk away, or not patronize a business if they don't like them. Instead, morons fancy themselves as "activists" and participate in the ridiculous "cancel culture" stupidity, which has taken hold here. Even if you're a person speaking as a private citizen and not representing your company in any way, "cancel culture" folks will do everything in their power to ruin your life including trying to get you fired. It's stupidity on a mass scale and I could go into it more, but that would definitely cross into P&N and I avoid that cesspool like the plague.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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We are in times where heads are so far up asses that potentially utilizing a master/slave device is raaaaaaaaaaaaacist!

I would say this is "for the luls" - but it's 100% serious... and that is just sad and pathetic.

 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,316
10,814
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I certainly care about it, but what "Evil" is itself is not frustrating. What is frustrating is the continued use of Superstition to dismiss Evil as something we have no control over, because that is not true. When we understand what these things are we can make decisions, technology, and perform actions to mitigate and even eliminate these things. If we held to these Superstitions, we would still cower at the simplest of things and become victims of other things like Disease when we don't need to.



I agree that people do very often use "evil" as an excuse for their own deplorable behavior and that its really lame to do so.

All I said was the equivalent of "There are more things in heaven and earth then dreamed of in man's philosophy" and I stand by it.

For all we know HP Lovecraft was the one who nailed it and we live every day surrounded by terrifying monsters we can't perceive! (man I hope not!)

:D
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
126
I agree that people do very often use "evil" as an excuse for their own deplorable behavior and that its really lame to do so.

All I said was the equivalent of "There are more things in heaven and earth then dreamed of in man's philosophy" and I stand by it.

For all we know HP Lovecraft was the one who nailed it and we live every day surrounded by terrifying monsters we can't perceive! (man I hope not!)

:D

I agree that Inter-Dimensional beings could exist, but the things we call Evil always have explanations that do not indicate such things. So even if they exist they are moot to our experience.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
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The game of being offended is a competition sport these days. People seem to have forgotten how to turn off the TV, walk away, or not patronize a business if they don't like them. Instead, morons fancy themselves as "activists" and participate in the ridiculous "cancel culture" stupidity, which has taken hold here. Even if you're a person speaking as a private citizen and not representing your company in any way, "cancel culture" folks will do everything in their power to ruin your life including trying to get you fired. It's stupidity on a mass scale and I could go into it more, but that would definitely cross into P&N and I avoid that cesspool like the plague.

That and businesses are supposed to be... living...breathing...entities that apparently have political stances and "stand for social justice".

The reality though is most big businesses (Target, Walmart, etc...) love this shit because it keeps people divided and screaming at eachother instead of unionizing with one another.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,316
10,814
136
I agree that Inter-Dimensional beings could exist, but the things we call Evil always have explanations that do not indicate such things. So even if they exist they are moot to our experience.


Careful about pronouncing things as "facts" ... referring to the "moot to our experience" line.

There is no way to know if any hypothetical beings we can't perceive can effect us.

Also how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? ;)
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,231
5,806
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Careful about pronouncing things as "facts" ... referring to the "moot to our experience" line.

There is no way to know if any hypothetical beings we can't perceive can effect us.

Also how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? ;)

Can and Have are 2 very different things. There has never been an instance showing Have, which is why such conjecture has no worth.
 
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mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
3,348
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This song has become gospel, but its for anyone who may be seeing signs, or just fun to watch anyways. Personally i love Balder on the guitar, he just loves this shit as do i.


"INTERDIMENSIONAL SUMMIT" LYRICS Mired in illusion Lost in the masters game Silenced by the idea of time Nurtured with lies and deceit The silent seeker, the seer Travels beyond the veil The silent seeker, the seer Fleeing the dense womb of ignorance To the trained eye There are no coincidences The more you see The less it makes sense To the trained eye There are no coincidences If you can not see You can not truly know We are the current sum of all the ages Leaving a trail of burnt pages Thrown into darkness as stars We travel alone as one When the dust settles on the tavern Is when we're liberated from illusion Taking our first and final breath Realizing life is always after death
 
Feb 25, 2011
16,907
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The difficulty I have is that you seem quite wrong about the "cleared up" part. As, while I've learned to stop doubling down and try to carefully draw out an answer to what this new Shibboleth is all about - it takes absolutely being marked as evil in incarnate if I do anything but immediately admit fault and change my mind: no questions allowed.

You probably come off as though you are interested in arguing. Most people have no interest in engaging beyond the initial correction, because they've learned that the world is full of insincere dickheads who will ask you questions they could have Googled, and then argue with you the way a pigeon plays chess.

For less touchy topics, it can be as simple as "red means stop, green means go." There are probably reasons those colors were chosen, and there may have been an opportunity to change it at some point, but most people don't know the history and even if we did, it's too late to change so it's a moot point. Accept it or you will get run over by a garbage truck.

More seriously, the implication that something like an individual's legal personhood is simply a fun academic question for you, and a topic about which you could change your mind? Plenty offensive without the need for further exploration.

Now that's my experience, and no doubt I've lived the privileged life of a person dedicated to mental pursuits - but isn't the POINT of a shibboleth to NOT let people in?

I may be using the term in a manner inconsistent with the full scope of its implications. You got me. *shrug*
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,316
10,814
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Can and Have are 2 very different things. There has never been an instance showing Have, which is why such conjecture has no worth.


Proof of this? (i'll wait) ;)

How exactly do you prove that beings you can't perceive exist or what if any influence they might have? (We could keep going round and round forever here)

Its actually okay to agree to disagree lol.... just sayin.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,001
12,543
136
Based on observation I would have to say there is no doubt chaotic evil in the world.

However I also do believe there's a lot more going on around here then meets the eye and that some of whats going on does not wish us well. Call it what you will I would say "evil" works.

The difference between me and many folks is that I'm not arrogant enough to tell you that I know for sure when I don't. (neither does anyone else)
there is no inherent evil in the universe. Evil is a human concept. Physics, chemistry and biology knows no evil. The universe exists along with everything else. We are all star stuff. And back to star stuff everything must eventually go.