Prayers and tears in Falluja

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
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Prayers and tears in Falluja

The Iraqi city of Falluja is braced for an assault by US forces massed on its outskirts.
The BBC News website spoke by phone to a reporter in Falluja, who described how people left in the city live on through siege and bombardment. He is not named for security reasons.

When I hear bombs falling around my neighbourhood, I keep thinking - any moment now, I could be killed.

It is worst during the night, when the bombardment is most intense.




Inside Falluja: Part One
If a big bomb lands somewhere nearby, you often hear crying and wailing afterwards.

It is a very strange feeling because in between the screaming, there is the sound of more missiles flying.

That is when I think - I could be next.

Another sound you hear during the bombing is that of prayers. People pray loudly because they are so scared.

Sometimes, you hear people say quite unusual things - they improvise, making up their own prayers.

US election

We followed the US elections very closely from Falluja.

It was a matter of life and death. Many people were hoping John Kerry would win because they felt he would not have allowed our city to be attacked like this.

Of course, we also know that the US policy in Iraq at large is not going to change. We do not forget that George Bush and John Kerry are two sides of the same coin.

Still, as far as our city is concerned right now, a Kerry victory would have brought some hope.

Roads blocked

I left my old house in the north of the city a month ago, when the Americans began bombing that area all the time.

Now I live with a small group of friends near the centre of Falluja.


US bombing raids cause fresh casualties every day
We are just men here. All our wives and children have left the city - some we sent to Baghdad, others to quieter areas closer by.

We cook and eat together and spend most of our time in the house.

If you want to leave the house, the safest time to do so is between seven in the morning and one in the afternoon, when the Americans take a break from the bombing.

The souk [market] in the centre of Falluja is open from morning to midday and, fortunately, it has not run out of food so far.

But I can't see how long the supplies will last - two days ago, the government said it was cutting off the roads from Falluja to Baghdad and Ramadi.

I don't know what we will eat then.

I guess we might still be able to grab hold of some meat - I've seen a lot of goats in the city.

There is only one road out of the city that is still open now - but it runs through a checkpoint manned by US soldiers.

We think they're going to cut this route off quite soon as well.

Hospitals

A lot of people have left Falluja. Mostly only men remain.


Food may soon run out because key roads to the city are closed
This used to be a city of 500,000 people.

Now, my guess is there are about 100,000 still here.

Some people who tried to leave earlier on found they had to come back because there was no way of surviving away from their homes.

Iraq is a difficult place to live at the moment. There are not many opportunities.

The hospitals I have seen are full of people but empty of supplies and medicine. The erratic electricity also makes operating difficult.

Ten to 18 new cases are brought in every day.

The injured know they won't get much treatment. They come just to be near the doctor, to hear the doctor talk to them.

 

jjzelinski

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2004
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This is pointless. The only things in Falluja are terrorists, all others would've abandoned their homes, their way of life, their sense of history, and dignity by now. Falluja is evil, let the holy MOABS fall upon their evil heads. Perhaps then they will enjoy the freedoms of democracy.
 

Valvoline6

Senior member
Oct 6, 2000
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That's what happens when the terrorists in the city do not surrender. Get ready, the worst is coming.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
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[Jules]The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.[/Jules]
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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Bush's plan is genius. He doesn't even need to tell us he wants a long occupation; he's guaranteed it by creating a dozen more insurgents with each bomb that drops.
 

cwjerome

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Sep 30, 2004
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Crowded, under-supplied hospitals, etc....

It's not Saddam's fault. It's not the terrorists or insurgents fault. It can always and only be the fault of the US. Imagine, trying to stop the violence, secure a country, bring it democracy and freedom, a chance at prosperity, a spot of the table of modern nations... ohh, the EVIL!

GrGr, Noam Chomsky himself would be proud of your posts.
 

Tylanner

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2004
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Bush's plan is genius. He doesn't even need to tell us he wants a long occupation; he's guaranteed it by creating a dozen more insurgents with each bomb that drops.


And I'm sure the bombs Clinton sent in were praised there.

And where is the official Insurgent counter again? O yeah, in your head.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
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Aug 23, 2003
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Originally posted by: Tylanner
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Bush's plan is genius. He doesn't even need to tell us he wants a long occupation; he's guaranteed it by creating a dozen more insurgents with each bomb that drops.


And I'm sure the bombs Clinton sent in were praised there.

And where is the official Insurgent counter again? O yeah, in your head.

I don't recall Clinton bombing urban areas to enforce the Iraqi No-Fly Zone.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
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Originally posted by: jjzelinski
This is pointless. The only things in Falluja are terrorists, all others would've abandoned their homes, their way of life, their sense of history, and dignity by now. Falluja is evil, let the holy MOABS fall upon their evil heads. Perhaps then they will enjoy the freedoms of democracy.

Stop with the good and bad. To see a conflict like this as just "good and bad" is ridiiculous. First we were out to get the government of Iraq, and now we are running around bombing houses because we hope to hit a terrorist. What are you going to do when you level a city and people come back, huh? There will be nothing! You think that'll please the people?

I love though you say that "hold MOABS should fall upon their evil heads, for this is how they will enjoy democracy".

Real Democracy Ace:thumbsdown:
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
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Originally posted by: cwjerome
Crowded, under-supplied hospitals, etc....

It's not Saddam's fault. It's not the terrorists or insurgents fault. It can always and only be the fault of the US. Imagine, trying to stop the violence, secure a country, bring it democracy and freedom, a chance at prosperity, a spot of the table of modern nations... ohh, the EVIL!

GrGr, Noam Chomsky himself would be proud of your posts.

No price is too high for Iraqis to pay for US "help", is it?

Saddam (the US supported dictator before he became bogeyman # "ace of spades") is long gone. There were no terrorists or "insurgents" in Iraq before the illegal US invasion.

And do you truly believe the US is in Iraq out of the goodness of it's heart and not for geostrategic reasons?



 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
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It is rather sad, because we are all sitting knowing that at any moment the assault will start, and hundreds and possibly thousands of people will die in the next few days. Both Iraqi and Americans will lose their lives, and the survivors will wonder why they are alive while their friends, and families are all dead.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
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And to think the people in Falluja are praying to the same God Christians do.
 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
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Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: Tylanner
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Bush's plan is genius. He doesn't even need to tell us he wants a long occupation; he's guaranteed it by creating a dozen more insurgents with each bomb that drops.


And I'm sure the bombs Clinton sent in were praised there.

And where is the official Insurgent counter again? O yeah, in your head.

I don't recall Clinton bombing urban areas to enforce the Iraqi No-Fly Zone.


you might be right....but wait a minute....Bosnia...nope no civilains there.....asprin factory in the sudan....nope no civilians there either......Chinese embassy...nope not a single one there....your right, Clinton NEVER authorized military strikes anywhere near a civilian target.
 

Carbo

Diamond Member
Aug 6, 2000
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When will you head-in-the-sand bleeding hearts realize that a war is won by killing the enemy, or pounding them into submission? Battles are won on the battlefield, not in a daisy field. This action is months overdue, and should have first been accomplished the day occupation by the enemy was recognized.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
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Originally posted by: Carbo
When will you head-in-the-sand bleeding hearts realize that a war is won by killing the enemy, or pounding them into submission? Battles are won on the battlefield, not in a daisy field. This action is months overdue, and should have first been accomplished the day occupation by the enemy was recognized.

You mean like all the battles won in Vietnam won that war? :confused:

The Vietnamese got seriously pounded, died like flies, but still won the war. Weird huh.
 

Carbo

Diamond Member
Aug 6, 2000
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Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: Carbo
When will you head-in-the-sand bleeding hearts realize that a war is won by killing the enemy, or pounding them into submission? Battles are won on the battlefield, not in a daisy field. This action is months overdue, and should have first been accomplished the day occupation by the enemy was recognized.

You mean like all the battles won in Vietnam won that war? :confused:

The Vietnamese got seriously pounded, died like flies, but still won the war. Weird huh.
How you can compare the two is beyond anyone's ability to understand. That said, it'd be pointless to try and explain. But, if I understand what you are saying, it's that we should pull out now because the battlefield is tough and we may lose?

 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Crowded, under-supplied hospitals, etc....

It's not Saddam's fault. It's not the terrorists or insurgents fault. It can always and only be the fault of the US. Imagine, trying to stop the violence, secure a country, bring it democracy and freedom, a chance at prosperity, a spot of the table of modern nations... ohh, the EVIL!

GrGr, Noam Chomsky himself would be proud of your posts.

No price is too high for Iraqis to pay for US "help", is it?
The US and Iraqi government has been attempting for some time now to negotiate with those in charge in Fallujah. They have continually refused. They have reaped what they have sown for themselves and everyone left in Fallujah. If they truly cared about their own they wouldn't have placed them in this position.

Additionally, the citizens of Fallujah have known for weeks this was coming. It's no secret. Fallujans have been warned to leave if they didn't want to be killed.

Saddam (the US supported dictator before he became bogeyman # "ace of spades") is long gone. There were no terrorists or "insurgents" in Iraq before the illegal US invasion.
Making the superficial claim that "The US supported Saddam" is nearing the height of disingenius statements. And regardless whether or not there were terrorists or insurgents (duh!) in Iraq prior to the invasion, Saddam did support terrorism.

And do you truly believe the US is in Iraq out of the goodness of it's heart and not for geostrategic reasons?
Some of both.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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rose.gif
for the innocent people that don't need to die...
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
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Originally posted by: Carbo
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: Carbo
When will you head-in-the-sand bleeding hearts realize that a war is won by killing the enemy, or pounding them into submission? Battles are won on the battlefield, not in a daisy field. This action is months overdue, and should have first been accomplished the day occupation by the enemy was recognized.

You mean like all the battles won in Vietnam won that war? :confused:

The Vietnamese got seriously pounded, died like flies, but still won the war. Weird huh.
How you can compare the two is beyond anyone's ability to understand. That said, it'd be pointless to try and explain. But, if I understand what you are saying, it's that we should pull out now because the battlefield is tough and we may lose?

Ever heard of the term Pyrrhic victory? Can you understand that concept? Some wars are not won by brute force. The superior strategist wins without fighting says sun tzu; so the more the US flexes it's military muscles the weaker it is. What does the US gain by creating martyrs for the enemy's cause? And why is Allawi so desperate to strike Falluja before the elections? Does he expect the survivors to vote for him?

 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: GrGr
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Crowded, under-supplied hospitals, etc....

It's not Saddam's fault. It's not the terrorists or insurgents fault. It can always and only be the fault of the US. Imagine, trying to stop the violence, secure a country, bring it democracy and freedom, a chance at prosperity, a spot of the table of modern nations... ohh, the EVIL!

GrGr, Noam Chomsky himself would be proud of your posts.

No price is too high for Iraqis to pay for US "help", is it?
The US and Iraqi government has been attempting for some time now to negotiate with those in charge in Fallujah. They have continually refused. They have reaped what they have sown for themselves and everyone left in Fallujah. If they truly cared about their own they wouldn't have placed them in this position.

"Yield your city to us or we will raze it to the ground"?

This is the same logic that lead to the deaths of over a million Iraqis as the US and the West, out of the goodness of their hearts I'm sure, saw fit to starve Iraq into submission.

The bombs that will kill the people of Falluja are US bombs. Ultimately it is the decision of the elected representatives of the American people to bomb the city of Falluja.

Additionally, the citizens of Fallujah have known for weeks this was coming. It's no secret. Fallujans have been warned to leave if they didn't want to be killed.

Leave where? The article says that some people tried to leave but had to return or face starvation.

Saddam (the US supported dictator before he became bogeyman # "ace of spades") is long gone. There were no terrorists or "insurgents" in Iraq before the illegal US invasion.

Making the superficial claim that "The US supported Saddam" is nearing the height of disingenius statements. And regardless whether or not there were terrorists or insurgents (duh!) in Iraq prior to the invasion, Saddam did support terrorism.

The US supported terrorism too. It still supports terrorists.

It is a matter of fact that the US helped Saddam to power and were cosy with him up until the Kuwait invasion. The very same people in charge today (like Rumbo and Powell) had no problems with Saddam's gassing of Kurds for example.

And do you truly believe the US is in Iraq out of the goodness of it's heart and not for geostrategic reasons?
Some of both.

Well after having helped Saddam to power in Iraq, having used Iraq as a proxy in the war with Iran (with hundreds of thousands of casulties), having bombed the crap out of Iraq during GWI including dusting it with Depleted Uranium (a WMD), having enticed the Shiites to revolt against Saddam only to help him crush the rebellion, having killed over a million innocent civilians (mostly children and elderly through sanctions that strengthened Saddam's grip on his people), having illegally invaded Iraq and killed a further tens of thousands of people and installing a fresh puppet government - why yes I can see the point that the US somehow invaded out of the goodness of it's heart.
 

tec699

Banned
Dec 19, 2002
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Don't worry guys. The city will be rebuilt with US money. Millions that could have gone to health care, education and other social issues will be sent to Iraq.