Practical Fusion Power

[Fanatical Meat]

Holy Crap this appears to be a big step

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/12/politics/nuclear-fusion-energy-us-scientists-climate/index.html

 

[brianmanahan]

maybe instead of fusion being 20 years away, it's only 19 now!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

maybe instead of fusion being 20 years away, it's only 19 now!

Joke was cited in one of the cnn stories but it’s 30 years and this time it may be true.

 

[brianmanahan]

Joke was cited in one of the cnn stories but it’s 30 years and this time it may be true.

that would be big if true

i'd love to see it happen in my lifetime

and i think that fusion power always came out in 2050 in simcity 2000, so the timing would be perfect

 

[TXHokie]

I was told we'd have flying cars by now, that was like 30 yrs ago.

 

[Ajay]

Holy Crap this appears to be a big step

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/12/politics/nuclear-fusion-energy-us-scientists-climate/index.html

Net zero and net positive energy in the fusion world are deceptive terms. This basically just compare electrical power in compared to energy output of the fusion reaction. It doesn't include any secondary energy used in auxiliary system to run the system (like liquid helium production for Tokamaks) or the efficiency of conversion to heat energy capture to drive a steam turbine. I'm sure that at 24x7 operation in an actual use there will be allot of cooling needed to keep the lasers within appropriate temperature ranges. Oh, and they are now using magnetic confinement to improve the implosion process - so the electro magnets will have to be cooled as well.

My view on fusion is that we are still in the "R" stage of R&D for fusion - so these system are just a series of experiments to figure out what type of systems may be commercially viable.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I was told we'd have flying cars by now, that was like 30 yrs ago.

Flying taxis in maybe 5 years?

Flying cars in Dubai: Ehang 184, Uber Elevate & More - Mybayut

Dubai is one of the smartest cities in the world. In this blog post, we discuss the prospects and current progress of flying cars in Dubai.

www.dubai-marina.com

 

[pete6032]

maybe instead of fusion being 20 years away, it's only 19 now!

Every day we are one day closer than the last.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

^^^ The Sun is the same in a relative way, but you're older.

 

[Ajay]

Hmm, we have two threads on this :-(

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

^^^ Apply some Fusion.

 

[gorobei]

Hmm, we have two threads on this :-(

^^^ Apply some Fusion.

 

[WelshBloke]

Flying taxis in maybe 5 years?

Flying cars in Dubai: Ehang 184, Uber Elevate & More - Mybayut

Dubai is one of the smartest cities in the world. In this blog post, we discuss the prospects and current progress of flying cars in Dubai.

www.dubai-marina.com

They better look like this!

 

[PlanetJosh]

I made an easy to understand further explanation of the inertial fusion mentioned in the OP article. I didn't realize what inertial containment meant in fusion power until today. I'm no expert but see what you all think of it:

I occasionally read articles like many of you have about magnetic containment over the years. And the magnetic method seems more intuitive to understand for non experts like me You have for example a spherical magnet that's generally stationary that tries to confine the hot nuclear plasma.

But the inertial containment method seems like it's hard to wrap one's head around for those not trained in physics. But maybe an example to simplify it is a laser heats up a core of nuclear fuel like tritium and deuterium both of which are heavy hydrogen. The outer portion of the core rapidly expands away. And it's extremely dense which allows it to serve as the containment field of the intense release of energy from the center of the core.

So the inertia of this fusion reaction creates its own containment field hence the name inertial containment method or inertia fusion. Edit: Without the outer plasma acting as a containment field the energy generation wouldn't work, meaning there would be no net gain of energy needed for viable electrical power generation. The burst of energy from the center would just dissipate without any use.

And the outer plasma is still rapidly expanding outward while it continues to contain the tremendous energy from the core center. The reason this is possible is that burst of energy from the center is faster than the time it takes for the expanding containment field to dissipate and no longer function as a means of containment.

Apparently the turbo "shockwave" expansion of the outer part of the fuel core causes the center of the core to implode. That's followed by the intense release of energy from the center mentioned above that's greater than the energy the laser uses during heating of the fuel core. So you get a net energy gain. This cycle is so far only lasting billionths of a second.

But that has to happen many times per second for commercial fusion power. And the length of time of sustaining the cycles need to increase a lot. And the problem of the energy used to power the laser must be addressed.

Source, scroll to Prof Justin Wark, the first person quoted in the article:

expert reaction to reports of advance in nuclear fusion from the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory | Science Media Centre

www.sciencemediacentre.org

 

[KMFJD]

DOE National Laboratory Makes History by Achieving Fusion Ignition

The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) and DOE’s National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) today announced the achievement of fusion ignition at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL)—a major scientific breakthrough decades in the making.

www.energy.gov

~LLNL’s experiment surpassed the fusion threshold by delivering 2.05 megajoules (MJ) of energy to the target, resulting in 3.15 MJ of fusion energy output, demonstrating for the first time a most fundamental science basis for inertial fusion energy (IFE). Many advanced science and technology developments are still needed to achieve simple, affordable IFE to power homes and businesses, and DOE is currently restarting a broad-based, coordinated IFE program in the United States. Combined with private-sector investment, there is a lot of momentum to drive rapid progress toward fusion commercialization.


it looks(?) like they are onto something with that much extra energy?

 

[sdifox]

DOE National Laboratory Makes History by Achieving Fusion Ignition

The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) and DOE’s National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) today announced the achievement of fusion ignition at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL)—a major scientific breakthrough decades in the making.

www.energy.gov

~LLNL’s experiment surpassed the fusion threshold by delivering 2.05 megajoules (MJ) of energy to the target, resulting in 3.15 MJ of fusion energy output, demonstrating for the first time a most fundamental science basis for inertial fusion energy (IFE). Many advanced science and technology developments are still needed to achieve simple, affordable IFE to power homes and businesses, and DOE is currently restarting a broad-based, coordinated IFE program in the United States. Combined with private-sector investment, there is a lot of momentum to drive rapid progress toward fusion commercialization.


it looks(?) like they are onto something with that much extra energy?

They didn't count the ooodles of megawatts they used to generate the x-ray...

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

You lost me after 'I made an easy to understand ...'.

 

[PowerEngineer]

Perhaps an important (and long promised) step toward a workable fusion process, but to me a "breakthrough" implies a development that overcomes the last major hurdle (which this is not). What would impress me is a process that could be operated stably for hours rather than seconds.

 

[Artorias]

maybe instead of fusion being 20 years away, it's only 19 now!

It's always been 20 years away from 20 years until commercially viable.

 

[Ajay]

Perhaps an important (and long promised) step toward a workable fusion process, but to me a "breakthrough" implies a development that overcomes the last major hurdle (which this is not). What would impress me is a process that could be operated stably for hours rather than seconds.

I'm waiting for days, but yeah.

 

[PlanetJosh]

Just use the quantum fusion method in The Man Who Fell to Earth tv show, case closed, infinite electrical supply.

 

[Muse]

I was told we'd have flying cars by now, that was like 30 yrs ago.

I have never believed that for a second.

 

[Muse]

Timelines for development seem pretty meaningless to me given the acceleration of technology on planet earth the last 200 years. It seems to accelerate exponentially. Doesn't mean practical fusion power on the huge scale hoped for won't turn out to be impossible. I just don't know.