PPU is the next revolution.

[HDTVMan]

I am not saying the GPU is obsolete but PPU will definatly be like our first Voodoo Card.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=140

Just one of the demo's out there.
http://files.seriouszone.com/download.php?fileid=959

What AGEIA and even game developers envision a PPU will enable for a gamer is a world with physics unlike anything we have seen in a real time game before. We are talking about thousands of rigid bodies, real flowing water, hair simulation, avalanches of rock, clothing simulations and more. Even more impressive is the idea of a universal collision detection system that allows you to interact with absolutely ANYTHING in a game world. All of it calculated in real time with nothing scripted in the game engine.

 

[Kogan]

Wow, it's great to see some new technology (that video is pretty cool). Of course this stuff is no good at all for current games, but will make it much easier to make realistic/real-life physics in future games.

You've got to question if the extra physics processor is really necessary though.. They've got the API which can be used with current processors, so if you've got a dual-core system, how much better is that PPU going to be than your extra A64 4000+?

But if this stuff takes off (which it looks like it is doing with production pieces from Asus already), we'll probably finally see some CPU bottlenecks in physics-heavy games. Then just add a PPU, and you'll get XXX% improvement.

We may even see this stuff integrated into future CPUs. Intel is looking for something to get ahead of AMD performance wise, and they might consider adding ppu functionality

PS3 is another posibility. Maybe they'll take an extra 6 months and add some PPU stuff to the system so they'll stomp the xbox360. Nah, I think they've finalized most of the hardware already.

Now we just need to see some games that utilize this stuff. Can't wait

 

[route66]

I don't pay more than $150 for a video card.

If the PPU is more than $50 I will NEVER pay for it.

 

[Kogan]

It looks like ATI's X1000 series cards can already process physics better than P4's and 7800gtx's:
http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/8887

Maybe that's why they took so long to come out

 

[HDTVMan]

Originally posted by: Kogan
It looks like ATI's X1000 series cards can already process physics better than P4's and 7800gtx's:
http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/8887

Maybe that's why they took so long to come out

I know Im getting yelled at in another thread on the possilbity of the xbox 360 having some of these abilities. Its going to rock.

As for if anyone if going to use the PhysX?
The next Unreal Engine is using it and I know Valve (Half Life) are going to use it.

If you google it you will see it has great future support. The question remains will it remain a seperate card or will it be included in future video cards?

It will arrive next month and It will revolutionize future gameplay.

 

[route66]

I like how in that article it says the PhysX API isn't free. Meaning, if a developer wants to make a game with the PhysX engine they have to pay a license.

Good, this technology will die off rather quickly.

 

[aldamon]

If it will fill one of my empty PCI-E 1X slots, I will buy it

 

[Kogan]

Microsoft will probably take it and make it into their own api. Kind of like how they didn't like glide or opengl, so they just made directx

And I didn't think about the xbox360's ati gpu.. The future console systems are going to be interesting.

 

[HDTVMan]

After seeing the demo I am looking forward to this. I just wonder what the ATI 1000 series adds in the way of PPU compared to the PhysX unit.

Instead of GPU wars we will have PPU wars.

 

[imported_BadKarma]

Originally posted by: route66
I don't pay more than $150 for a video card.

If the PPU is more than $50 I will NEVER pay for it.

Quoted from www.pcper.com

The currently expected MSRP for a card like this: $249 to $299. Yep, you read that right. Be prepared in the years to come to add another $200+ part to your system for optimal gaming experience. A chip this size and this complex isn't going to come cheap, at least not in its current form.

I like the technology, but I don't see a lot of people buying it when it's introduced. Like route66 pointed out, it costs a lot more than the majority of people spend on their video card. It's not like the PhysX is a must have for you to enjoy the current games or any other games going to be released in the next 18 months. What it needs is a killer app much like how the Voodoo card had Quake. Do we have a list of games that support the PhysX card?

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: HDTVMan

Originally posted by: Kogan
It looks like ATI's X1000 series cards can already process physics better than P4's and 7800gtx's:
http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/8887

Maybe that's why they took so long to come out

I know Im getting yelled at in another thread on the possilbity of the xbox 360 having some of these abilities. Its going to rock.

As for if anyone if going to use the PhysX?
The next Unreal Engine is using it and I know Valve (Half Life) are going to use it.

If you google it you will see it has great future support. The question remains will it remain a seperate card or will it be included in future video cards?

It will arrive next month and It will revolutionize future gameplay.

You're not being yelled at. People are just trying to point out that with all the graphics work required for games today, that don't expect much of any real gains out of this as the GPU will be too busy rendering graphics to handle physics.

I'll bet that this will become a big deal in the future in the PC market. I don't see the PhysX doing that well, and so a dedicated phsyics chip will probably appear on a video card. Perhaps we'll see it as a daughter card first, give people more of a reason to go for an SLI/Crossfire board. However, I think its too late for this tech to really matter in the X360 or PS3.

The high price, along with the costs for licensing the tech will make this a tough pill to swallow both for developers and consumers.

They've already proven that GPUs are great at processing more than just graphics, but I think we're quite a ways away from getting to where they're an all purpose chip. I mean they're still working on ways in which the GPU can be used to process video things (de-interlacing, cleanup, etc.).

 

[midnight growler]

Will it be expensive and unaffordable for many? Yes. But it will also be able to break open the CPU bottleneck thats been slowing down performance for a very long time now. I agree that this will be a tough sell for most people, even to the uber-enthusiasts, but the companies know this too. For the time being, we'll probably see high prices with most people wanting to buy, just not willing or able to buy. Hopefully competition for the untaped mainstream market will drive prices down enough for us.

 

[SynthDude2001]

Originally posted by: midnight growler
Will it be expensive and unaffordable for many? Yes. But it will also be able to break open the CPU bottleneck thats been slowing down performance for a very long time now. I agree that this will be a tough sell for most people, even to the uber-enthusiasts, but the companies know this too. For the time being, we'll probably see high prices with most people wanting to buy, just not willing or able to buy. Hopefully competition for the untaped mainstream market will drive prices down enough for us.

QFT

I think something like this is needed for more immersive gaming, though not coupled with a $250 price tag. I fear that this may take years and years to catch on (or maybe never) because of (what appears to be) the extremely high cost and limited use (not only does it seem to be just for gaming, it'll only help in games that have specifically been programmed to take advantage of it).

I think there are a lot of great possibilities, I just hope they don't kill it off with high prices before it even gets a chance to survive.

 

[HDTVMan]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: midnight growler
Will it be expensive and unaffordable for many? Yes. But it will also be able to break open the CPU bottleneck thats been slowing down performance for a very long time now. I agree that this will be a tough sell for most people, even to the uber-enthusiasts, but the companies know this too. For the time being, we'll probably see high prices with most people wanting to buy, just not willing or able to buy. Hopefully competition for the untaped mainstream market will drive prices down enough for us.

QFT

I think something like this is needed for more immersive gaming, though not coupled with a $250 price tag. I fear that this may take years and years to catch on (or maybe never) because of (what appears to be) the extremely high cost and limited use (not only does it seem to be just for gaming, it'll only help in games that have specifically been programmed to take advantage of it).

I think there are a lot of great possibilities, I just hope they don't kill it off with high prices before it even gets a chance to survive.

This is first gen. Remember the Voodoo 1 cards were $300.00 and it only allowed for 3d gaming. There were no 2D abilities in the card. But yet VooDoo sold and a company was born.

I would think somone would buy them up? NVIDIA or ATI have to ponder the idea or think they can put PPU into their GPU's.

Buying them would definately give one a major boost. Much like I belive NVIDIA buying voodoo got them a major lead in the SLI race.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001

Originally posted by: midnight growler
Will it be expensive and unaffordable for many? Yes. But it will also be able to break open the CPU bottleneck thats been slowing down performance for a very long time now. I agree that this will be a tough sell for most people, even to the uber-enthusiasts, but the companies know this too. For the time being, we'll probably see high prices with most people wanting to buy, just not willing or able to buy. Hopefully competition for the untaped mainstream market will drive prices down enough for us.

QFT

I think something like this is needed for more immersive gaming, though not coupled with a $250 price tag. I fear that this may take years and years to catch on (or maybe never) because of (what appears to be) the extremely high cost and limited use (not only does it seem to be just for gaming, it'll only help in games that have specifically been programmed to take advantage of it).

I think there are a lot of great possibilities, I just hope they don't kill it off with high prices before it even gets a chance to survive.

and that is different from the voodoo graphics chipset how?


obviously the easiest way to do this is to integrate the physics processing onto the 3d card, such things are already bought in droves by anyone who wants the sorts of games a ppu would be useful for. and if ati has experience at this with xenos then it is a very simple step.

 

[Soccerman06]

I dont like the idea of combining a GPU and a PPU simply because of heat and money issues. I forsee that in the future gpus will be fast enough to handle both graphics and physics, I meen look at the flops from a X1800XT, 83 gflops and 42/s, thats 8x faster than P4 3.0ghz. the Ageia is suppose to be 100x that of the P4 at processing physics. If you were to compare the two numbers, the PPU theoretically would have 1.2tflops and 600gb/s. Obviously it wont be anywhere near those numbers, but I think PPU would virtually eliminate any cpu limitations from a physics standpoint. Because CPUs are highly versitile, they arent made to be the fastest at any one program, but fast enough in all computer apps.

I thought Aegis said there would be PPUs available for $100-$300 depending on what model, but that was way back when the PPU was first anounced.

Oh and isnt the PS3 suppose to have an Aegis PPU in it already?

 

[Unkno]

the PS3 is either having the whole PPU or its something to do with the engine or something similar...like support for it. There was one article stating the PS3 having something to do with PPU (either supporting or having one, forgot)

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: route66
I don't pay more than $150 for a video card.

If the PPU is more than $50 I will NEVER pay for it.

And you will NEVER have the best graphics, just like you NEVER have the best graphics with a $150 video card. Not having a PPU will put you further behind when it becomes a standard for games. If that's ok with you, awesome. But a lot of hobbyists enjoy new and better technology. Technology shouldn't slow down simply because the majority if people are content with mediocre stuff.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: Unkno
the PS3 is either having the whole PPU or its something to do with the engine or something similar...like support for it. There was one article stating the PS3 having something to do with PPU (either supporting or having one, forgot)

I think they're adapting the software to work on Cell, so that developers will have a good middleware physics solution. I will say thats one thing that Sony seems to be doing a nice job of (I say seems as I don't know for sure how well its actually working out), is getting a nice set of middleware tools to help developers adapt to the PS3.

 

[route66]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: route66
I don't pay more than $150 for a video card.

If the PPU is more than $50 I will NEVER pay for it.

And you will NEVER have the best graphics, just like you NEVER have the best graphics with a $150 video card. Not having a PPU will put you further behind when it becomes a standard for games. If that's ok with you, awesome. But a lot of hobbyists enjoy new and better technology.

Trust me, I know I don't have the best graphics. But not everyone needs 1600x1200 with 4xAA.

Videogaming is an expensive hobby, not counting how non-productive it is. I don't need another expensive part to make a few FPS games better.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: route66

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: route66
I don't pay more than $150 for a video card.

If the PPU is more than $50 I will NEVER pay for it.

And you will NEVER have the best graphics, just like you NEVER have the best graphics with a $150 video card. Not having a PPU will put you further behind when it becomes a standard for games. If that's ok with you, awesome. But a lot of hobbyists enjoy new and better technology.

Trust me, I know I don't have the best graphics. But not everyone needs 1600x1200 with 4xAA.

Videogaming is an expensive hobby, not counting how non-productive it is. I don't need another expensive part to make a few FPS games better.

Didn't say everyone needs it. But you can't honestly expect brand new technology to cost so little. Especially something that is sure to make some pretty significant changes in the gaming industry.

PC gaming is not an expensive hobby. If you upgrade often and sell off your old stuff, I doubt you'd ever spend more than $2000 a year on hardware. That's $38 per week. No different than a Friday or Saturday night at the bar once a week. No different than a family of four going to the movies once a week. Less than having a $20,000 car with $10,000 worth of crap added to it as a hobby.

 

[nitromullet]

The way is see it, PPU is certainly an interesting idea. However, they are going to have to speed this thing up a bit if we are supposed to buy it. If you watch the video, the crates in the beginning look like they are being shot at in outer space because they move so slow that they appear to float. Then, later on, when the plane flies into the hanger and hits a bunch of stuff, you can visually see the whole scene come to a crawl when the plane makes its first contact with an object. The whole point is realism, right? Having every action take place in "bullet time" isn't very realitic to me.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
The way is see it, PPU is certainly an interesting idea. However, they are going to have to speed this thing up a bit if we are supposed to buy it. If you watch the video, the crates in the beginning look like they are being shot at in outer space because they move so slow that they appear to float. Then, later on, when the plane flies into the hanger and hits a bunch of stuff, you can visually see the whole scene come to a crawl when the plane makes its first contact with an object. The whole point is realism, right? Having every action take place in "bullet time" isn't very realitic to me.

Haha... yeah... that's the physics engine. I don't think it has anything to do with the hardware. I think the engine just needs to be tweaked to provide physics like we're used to here on earth.

 

[route66]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Didn't say everyone needs it. But you can't honestly expect brand new technology to cost so little. Especially something that is sure to make some pretty significant changes in the gaming industry.

The thing is, why pay NOW for a product that isn't making significant changes NOW. Me, I'm happy to wait until ATi and nVidia provide cheaper products and there are games that actually use. And by actually use it, I mean it provides some kind of unique gameplay element. I've seen crates fall and explode in games before, and my ability to enjoy a game isn't increased because they fall and/or explode more realisticly. I know that's a general statement and it's more complicated than just making crates fall, just making a point.

PC gaming is not an expensive hobby. If you upgrade often and sell off your old stuff, I doubt you'd ever spend more than $2000 a year on hardware.

Or you could buy a console for $400 and have it last 4 years. $400 vs $8000 - a bit expensive, don't you think?

There are definately cheaper hobbies - like reading and painting, and constructive too! (That's what I meant, btw, when I said 'hobby' originally)

 

[midnight growler]

Originally posted by: nitromullet
The way is see it, PPU is certainly an interesting idea. However, they are going to have to speed this thing up a bit if we are supposed to buy it. If you watch the video, the crates in the beginning look like they are being shot at in outer space because they move so slow that they appear to float. Then, later on, when the plane flies into the hanger and hits a bunch of stuff, you can visually see the whole scene come to a crawl when the plane makes its first contact with an object. The whole point is realism, right? Having every action take place in "bullet time" isn't very realitic to me.

It's just a demo video, they slow it down on purpose so you can see everything happening