PPP poll indicates isolationist Willard is doing poorly in NH.

[Anarchist420]

The RNC thugs are probably going to have to have their opponents assassinated or hospitalized if they want Willard to win.

Willard can't win, so the RNC shouldn't nominate him. Obama is probably more conservative than Willard is, for fucks sake.

Dr. Paul won't endorse Willard so that's a lot of support lost right there.

I want to know why the R.E. claims to want to beat Obama, but then acts entirely different.

Romney wants to inflate even more than Obama does, wants to raise the min wage more than Obama does, plans to spend even more than Obama is, wants to start even more wars than Obama does, wants to continue the war on drugs more than Obama does, and so on and so forth. Romney's party supports IP more than the Democrats do, they support Eminent domain more than the Democrats do, they support more war than the Democrats do, which means they support gun control almost as much as the Democrats do.

 

[FoBoT]

it doesn't matter which one you vote for or which one wins, you'll get almost the same result

just say no, don't vote. the only way to change the system is to stop participating in 'their' games

 

[cybrsage]

Not voting is the same as voting for the incumbant. When you do not vote to replace him, you are giving your tacit approval that you want him to stay.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Welcome to the two party system. The dems offer you one choice which was determined in 2008 when Obama and the other selected by his party machine. Paul never had a chance in the real world and neither does anyone else. Romney may not win but as the one in the group that has the best chance, Romney was selected. That the best person to be President cannot run is irrelevant. It's not a meritocracy.

 

[nextJin]

Huh?

The only thing I took from that was that Romney can't win without the support of the libertarian-republican and Paul Supporters vote. Which I personally believe to be true, and my prediction is even if Paul did endorse Romney (unlikely) he still would not win over that crowd because they are in my situation where I will vote for Obama over Romney just for spite.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Not voting is the same as voting for the incumbant. When you do not vote to replace him, you are giving your tacit approval that you want him to stay.

Nope.

If Cthluhu held office and Satan ran against him not choosing either makes you a Satanist?
The names change but the principle is the same.

 

[Anarchist420]

Which I personally believe to be true, and my prediction is even if Paul did endorse Romney (unlikely)[...]

He's not going to endorse Romney.

 

[FoBoT]

Dr Paul will have no more effect on the November vote than he did in 2008. Did a lot of Paul Supporters vote for Obama in 2008?

Paul 2012 ≠ Perot 1992

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

He's not going to endorse Romney.

What you miss is that there is no one that Ernest could support who could win if your poll is correct. Obama seems to be the winner, and considering that the majority of the NH population is on or near the Mass border (pretty much a bedroom community) there would be great Democratic support for the only Dem running, Obama.

That's reality.

 

[FoBoT]

Not voting is the same as voting for the incumbant. When you do not vote to replace him, you are giving your tacit approval that you want him to stay.

this thinking is why the two party system will remain fully entrenched for the foreseeable future

it is fully equatable to sports fans. just because 'your team' didn't make it to the Super Bowl is no reason not to watch/be fully engaged in the Super Bowl

the RNC and DNC control the sheeple with the same tools used by Hollyweird and NFL, NBA etc etc

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So Romney doing poorly in polling in New Hampshire means Paul should be the GOP candidate.............Bwwaaahahahahahaha

 

[Anarchist420]

What you miss is that there is no one that Ernest could support who could win if your poll is correct. Obama seems to be the winner, and considering that the majority of the NH population is on or near the Mass border (pretty much a bedroom community) there would be great Democratic support for the only Dem running, Obama. That's reality.

Dr. Paul probably won't endorse anyone. The only one I think there is the slightest chance of him endorsing is Gary Johnson, but he won't win (as you pointed out).

Dr Paul will have no more effect on the November vote than he did in 2008. Did a lot of Paul Supporters vote for Obama in 2008?

I didn't vote for Obama, but he will kind of have an effect because Dr. Paul's supporters won't vote for Romney.

 

[FoBoT]

I didn't vote for Obama, but he will kind of have an effect because Dr. Paul's supporters won't vote for Romney.

so, in 2012, they won't vote for Romney, but in 2008 they were ok with McCain? McCain was less of a war hawk than Romney!??!?!?! McCain the 4th generation Navy man?!?

that isn't what you meant, i am sure

sorry, i think most of the 2012 Paul fanboys will go ahead and vote for Romney, in about the same % as they did in 2008 for McCain. we'll just have to disagree, i am sure

i don't see 3rd party candidates, whether like Perot as independent candidates or like Paul as an 'inside the party spoiler' as the catalyst to breaking the RNC/DNC control of the US political system

it will take the people declining to participate in the charade in adequate numbers, perhaps when voter turnout drops to 30% or 20%, for them to realize Democrats and Republicans win no matter who they vote for

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

this thinking is why the two party system will remain fully entrenched for the foreseeable future

it is fully equatable to sports fans. just because 'your team' didn't make it to the Super Bowl is no reason not to watch/be fully engaged in the Super Bowl

the RNC and DNC control the sheeple with the same tools used by Hollyweird and NFL, NBA etc etc

The only reason I see to participate this time around is that it's effectively chance to vote for a number of SCOTUS members. If I do pick one it won't be for the one who thinks the Constitution is a pretzel to be twisted via the commerce clause. In reality Romney won't be picking hard core conservatives. Remember he's the Romney in Romneycare and won in MA. A MA "conservative" is middle to left. He's more likely to pick less ideological candidate than someone like oh, the guy who invites us to participate in his threads and asks us to leave if we don't respond as he likes. The idea of ownership of people by either the corporate or government universes is not appealing. Romney is a little of both. Obama supporters say he's not a corporate man like Romney, but if you look at donors? Hell with principle, go for the money O because money is where it's at. But if giving people in the corporate world a little grief at the expansion of government control? Their all over it.

Make no mistake, this is about power and who has it. In either scenario it's taken from the public and handed to someone. I'd rather take more moderate judges in that case.

 

[nextJin]

Dr Paul will have no more effect on the November vote than he did in 2008. Did a lot of Paul Supporters vote for Obama in 2008?

Paul 2012 ≠ Perot 1992

While I agree that Paul is no Perot (he will not be running in a 3 man race) the net effect will be the same, they both pull from the same base. McCain lost in 08 and Romney will likely lose in 12.

 

[FoBoT]

A MA "conservative" is middle to left.

and McCain was/is a very Progressive Republican as well, so how much different would things be today if he had won? yes, there would be no "McCainCare" health legislation, but he supports most of the anti-Liberty bills that Obama does, Patriot Act, NDAA, SOPA etc

i understand the SCOTUS point, but i am no longer confident about the impartiality of judges, regardless of the letter (R)(D) behind the President that nominates them

 

[soulcougher73]

Not voting is the same as voting for the incumbant. When you do not vote to replace him, you are giving your tacit approval that you want him to stay.

LOL What?

So if i dont go vote this next election somehow Obama is going to get 1 vote from me?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

i understand the SCOTUS point, but i am no longer confident about the impartiality of judges, regardless of the letter (R)(D) behind the President that nominates them

No one is impartial. The question is who would likely select those who are the least? I'd say Obama. Does that fix the basic problem? No, but it doesn't make it worse.

IMO we're devolving as a people and as a society. Our concerns are for physical safety and comfort, and concepts such as freedom of action, responsibility, and worse of all, accountability are becoming quaint. Gimme healthcare, gimmie money, gimme education. Gimme gimme gimme. You'll take care of me? What do you want me to think and do? That's progress. Best thing we can do is slow the slide. Lesser people of greater generations. If the internet went down for a month we'd act like we were tied to a pole an whipped.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

sorry, i think most of the 2012 Paul fanboys will go ahead and vote for Romney, in about the same % as they did in 2008 for McCain. we'll just have to disagree, i am sure

No we won't and please refrain from using such childish terms as fanboys just because you disagree with our view or have something against Ron, thanks. We also will not be voting for Obama out of spite, rather out of fear of what another rich kid Pub candidate will do to this country, AGAIN.

 

[FoBoT]

No we won't and please refrain from using such childish terms as fanboys just because you disagree with our view or have something against Ron, thanks. We also will not be voting for Obama out of spite, rather out of fear of what another rich kid Pub candidate will do to this country, AGAIN.

why is 2012 different than 2008?

i think i have asked that a couple times

what makes the RP supporter of 2012 not vote if the same RP supporter in 2008 went ahead and voted for McCain? or even if they did vote for Obama in 2008, then they were already going to go ahead and vote for Obama again, despite participating in the RP republican primary fiesta

i think the reality in November will be basically the same as 2008, so it is all moot

 

[FoBoT]

Our concerns are for physical safety and comfort, and concepts such as freedom of action, responsibility, and worse of all, accountability are becoming quaint. Gimme healthcare, gimmie money, gimme education. Gimme gimme gimme. You'll take care of me? What do you want me to think and do? That's progress. Best thing we can do is slow the slide. Lesser people of greater generations. If the internet went down for a month we'd act like we were tied to a pole an whipped.

Bread and Circuses have never in the history of the world, been easier for the ruling class to provide to the masses, yes. i agree

 

[nextJin]

why is 2012 different than 2008?

i think i have asked that a couple times

what makes the RP supporter of 2012 not vote if the same RP supporter in 2008 went ahead and voted for McCain? or even if they did vote for Obama in 2008, then they were already going to go ahead and vote for Obama again, despite participating in the RP republican primary fiesta

i think the reality in November will be basically the same as 2008, so it is all moot

Well for starters his base grew by almost 15% of the GOP which unlike 2008 is a much more significant chunk. I am not saying no Ron Paul supporter will vote for Romney, I'm just saying a significant portion will not be (either write Paul in, vote for Johnson, vote for Obama, not vote, etc.)

I agree the outcome will be the same, just for different reasons. Chaos will likely ensue at the RNC in Tampa and frankly I can not wait. Having Romney being nominated is pretty much a slap in the face to every conservative in the country and they know it. That's why Santorum had a much better showing, he had a history of conservatism (however flawed it may be).

 

[FoBoT]

Having Romney being nominated is pretty much a slap in the face to every conservative in the country and they know it.

again, not anymore than McCain. i just can't see the difference between Ron Paul 2008 and Ron Paul 2012. yes, he has about 2 times the supporters. that is the only difference i see

McCain and Romney are both just as 'not conservative'. so you have Obama running against Bush's economy (both in 2008 and 2012) and the alternative to Obama is a liberal Republican, both in 2008 and 2012

unless the Libertarian candidate actually gets more votes in 2012 than in 2008, i think it ends up the same in 2012 as it did in 2008

 

[nextJin]

again, not anymore than McCain. i just can't see the difference between Ron Paul 2008 and Ron Paul 2012. yes, he has about 2 times the supporters. that is the only difference i see

McCain and Romney are both just as 'not conservative'. so you have Obama running against Bush's economy (both in 2008 and 2012) and the alternative to Obama is a liberal Republican, both in 2008 and 2012

unless the Libertarian candidate actually gets more votes in 2012 than in 2008, i think it ends up the same in 2012 as it did in 2008

Again we agree, and we have the same outcomes both elections. I am not arguing over the differences on the election outcomes, just on the differences in the Paul campaigns from both elections. There is much more to it than just have triple the support he had in 2008. According to RCP, PPP and a few others it is roughly triple nationwide.

Romney will lose come November, unless Obama somehow stumbles which I doubt. Like I said if it's between Obama or Romney I will vote for Obama and I definately am not alone in that sentiment.