Power Surge Issue

[over644]

I currently have an Air Conditioner that is plugged into an outlet all by itself. On the other side of my room, I have my desktop machine plugged into a UPS which is then plugged into an outlet by itself. Whenever I try to play games or run applications that require a lot of power from my system, the machine just shuts off and turns back on.

The only message I get from the event viewer is a Kernel Power error. At first I suspected the power supply or overheating to be the issue. So I installed Everest and noticed that my system components weren't going over 50 celsius even during high stress. I also can monitor the voltage of my system through the UPS and it never goes above 250 watts. Also note that my power supply is 900 watts so there's plenty of enough power for that system.

So after some troubleshooting, I realized that when my air conditioner is off, I'm able to play games and run benchmarks without any issues. So I'm assuming that even though both devices are in different outlets, they are both on the same circuit. Unfortunately my options are limited in that I'd have to run several extension cords for the Air Conditioner in another room.

I would like to know what my options are for this scenario, as I would ideally like to use my air conditioner and play games at the same time, especially when its over 100 degrees outside

 

[C1]

Remove the UPS and run the PC direct from the wall. That may provide the margin of power needed to keep running as the UPS is another power consuming device (and probably a significant one) on the line with everything else.You may also try running the AC on "low" setting once the room begins cooling, if it is not already set that way. What ever you do, dont turn on your laser printer! Also if you are using a large CRT (eg, 21" NEC or something like that) then get an LCD monitor. Otherwise, in general, ACs should be on their own circuit.

Post Note: In general, if you are having such a problem now, then you are running that circuit at or near capacity. In general this is not a good idea. Most likely the issue is that you are trying to run too large of an AC on a 15 amp household circuit when it should have its own 30 or at least 20 amp appliance circuit (usually used for kitchen service outlets). If the fuse or circuit breaker in your service panel for this circuit feels very warm to the touch when running all these appliances, you should "bite the bullet" & have a contractor install a separate line for the AC or you may just end up burning the place down anyway.

 

[over644]

Remove the UPS and run the PC direct from the wall. That may provide the margin of power needed to keep running as the UPS is another power consuming device (and probably a significant one) on the line with everything else.You may also try running the AC on "low" setting once the room begins cooling, if it is not already set that way. What ever you do, dont turn on your laser printer! Also if you are using a large CRT (eg, 21" NEC or something like that) then get an LCD monitor. Otherwise, in general, ACs should be on their own circuit.

Post Note: In general, if you are having such a problem now, then you are running that circuit at or near capacity. In general this is not a good idea. Most likely the issue is that you are trying to run too large of an AC on a 15 amp household circuit when it should have its own 30 or at least 20 amp appliance circuit (usually used for kitchen service outlets). If the fuse or circuit breaker in your service panel for this circuit feels very warm to the touch when running all these appliances, you should "bite the bullet" & have a contractor install a separate line for the AC or you may just end up burning the place down anyway.

Originally the PC was connected directly into the wall, so I bought the UPS to protect my system from being permanently damaged from all of the surges. Now that you mention it, I do have a HP Laserjet 3050 printer plugged into a separate outlet in my room, which is also probably on the same circuit. I threw around the idea of having a separate line installed for the A/C, but figured it would be too expensive for something I only use 2 months out of the year.

To add to the dilemma, in a 4th outlet I have my TV/cable box/Xbox 360/PS3/cable modem/LCD monitor all plugged into two power strips which are daisy chained and plugged into an outlet. I guess I should consider myself lucky that I haven't burned down my house. Again though, my options are limited so I was hoping for another solution, but I suppose I have no choice.

 

[westom]

So after some troubleshooting, I realized that when my air conditioner is off, I'm able to play games and run benchmarks without any issues. So I'm assuming that even though both devices are in different outlets, they are both on the same circuit.

Simply connect an incandescent bulb to that circuit. Does the bulb dim to less than 50% intensity? Then AC power for any properly constructed computer is ideal.

Normal is for a defective power system (which is more than just a power supply) to boot and operate a computer. If your power supply is defective (that marginal), then even the slightest light bulb dimming may cause computer shutdowns.

How to identify defects? Get numbers. Your numbers from the UPS, etc were based in a well advised attitude. But those numbers say nothing. Even the most powerful gaming computer typically uses 250 watts. And the computer's power system still may be 100% defective.

Setup the computer to multitask to all peripherals. For example, execute complex graphics (ie a game or movie), while downloading the from internet, while searching the hard drive, while reading from a CD, while playing sound loudly, while ... now you are ready to read numbers.

A 3.5 digit multimeter (so ubiquitous as to be sold even in K-mart) measures critical voltages on its 20 VDC scale. First touch the probe to a purple wire where power supply connected to the motherboard. Wire best accessed inside the nylon connector. That numbers must be about 5 volts. But to have full information, post those three digits here. Do same for any one red, orange, or yellow wires. To learn what all those numbers are saying (and do not just compare to numbers in the supply spec), post them here. Even if numbers meet the manufacturer spec, those numbers can still report a failure.

Those numbers will report on the many components of a power system. Or may identify a failure that has existed from the day you first bought that machine.

If a red wire measures 4.8 volts and the spec says voltage must be above 4.75, well, that is a failure. Post those numbers to learn about so many things many do not even know exist.

 

[over644]

Simply connect an incandescent bulb to that circuit. Does the bulb dim to less than 50% intensity? Then AC power for any properly constructed computer is ideal.

Normal is for a defective power system (which is more than just a power supply) to boot and operate a computer. If your power supply is defective (that marginal), then even the slightest light bulb dimming may cause computer shutdowns.

How to identify defects? Get numbers. Your numbers from the UPS, etc were based in a well advised attitude. But those numbers say nothing. Even the most powerful gaming computer typically uses 250 watts. And the computer's power system still may be 100% defective.

Setup the computer to multitask to all peripherals. For example, execute complex graphics (ie a game or movie), while downloading the from internet, while searching the hard drive, while reading from a CD, while playing sound loudly, while ... now you are ready to read numbers.

A 3.5 digit multimeter (so ubiquitous as to be sold even in K-mart) measures critical voltages on its 20 VDC scale. First touch the probe to a purple wire where power supply connected to the motherboard. Wire best accessed inside the nylon connector. That numbers must be about 5 volts. But to have full information, post those three digits here. Do same for any one red, orange, or yellow wires. To learn what all those numbers are saying (and do not just compare to numbers in the supply spec), post them here. Even if numbers meet the manufacturer spec, those numbers can still report a failure.

Those numbers will report on the many components of a power system. Or may identify a failure that has existed from the day you first bought that machine.

If a red wire measures 4.8 volts and the spec says voltage must be above 4.75, well, that is a failure. Post those numbers to learn about so many things many do not even know exist.

I'm not going to lie, about 85% of what you said went completely over my head. If it helps though, I've owned other computer systems in the past, and have had the same exact problem. And those systems weren't all plugged into the same outlet, so I'm fairly confident the issue is having too much power going through the same circuit.

Also regarding your light bulb trick, whenever I turn on my Air Conditioner, my lights ALWAYS dim out for a second or two, but then after that all is well. I'll try what you said though regarding doing multitasking on the machine, but I suspect it will be fine as long as the air conditioner is turned off. Thanks for the reply though, I have to say I'm really impressed by the feedback that this community gives.

 

[westom]

I'm not going to lie, about 85% of what you said went completely over my head. ...
Also regarding your light bulb trick, whenever I turn on my Air Conditioner, my lights ALWAYS dim out for a second or two,

That dimming says you have a serious wiring problem. Fix household wiring by first identifying the failure.

For example, that outlet gets power by daisy chaining through other outlets until it connects to a circuit breaker. Every wire from that circuit breaker to the air conditioner must be connected firmly by screws. If any wire connects to the back of a receptacle, then that is a wiring problem. Simply take the cover off of every receptacle. Each wire must be firmly wrapped around and held in place by a screw on the receptacle's side. Easy to see.

Move that light bulb to each outlet closer to the breaker box. Once the bulb is on the other side of a wiring defect, then it will no longer dim when the air conditioner powers on.

This, like that other post, is completely new. Therefore you will only understand 15% the first read. 45% after a second reading. 70% the third reread, etc. Anything new and useful cannot be understood in one reading. See thoses above paragraphs about inspecting each receptacle? Remove a receptacle cover, look inside, and then reread that paragraph again.

Lights dimming when the air conditioner powers on means you have a wiring problem. Whether that problem is a threat to human life can only be determined by inspection. And maybe reporting here what you discovered.

Multimeter voltage numbers will report same whether an air conditioner is on or off. If a computer's entire power system is good, the numbers (to three significant digits) will say so - without doubt. If the air conditioner is causing computer problems, again those numbers will say so - even when the air conditioner is not powered.

Two actions are recommended. First involve finding a serious wiring defect that causes a one second light bulb dimming. Both using inspecting and by moving the light bulb to other receptacles. Second is voltage numbers from the many components of a computer's power system.

 

[bryanl]

Don't have anything else plugged into the air conditioner's circuit.

I would test the integrity of each outlet by measuring its voltage under load with a Kill-a-watt with an 1800W hair dryer plugged into it. Do this with everything else disconnected since 1800W @ 120V is 15A and close to or at the limit of each circuit. The voltage shouldn't drop more than 1% when the dryer is turned on to high heat, but if it does, the likely fault is a loose connection at an outlet or inside a wire nut splice. I've seen voltage drop to as little as 90V, mostly due to loose push terminals in AC outlets. However do not attempt repair unless you know how to safely work on high voltage electrical wiring and you first turn off the circuit breakers plus verify that the AC is indeed turned off. Even breakers have been known to drop voltage, and each should be turned on and off annually to clean its contacts.

 

[Emulex]

make sure you have a decent ups - pure sine wave (cyberpower has a cheap model) - alot of these folks are having issues with PFC high efficiency power supplies and using cheapo square wave ups' .

the PFC supply draws more than its rated amount during the low power scenario - this will deform a square/modified wave. These cheap back-ups do not have current limits. they just trip out and shutdown for safety. its a vicious cycle. as it draws more current the modified square wave becomes more square than sinus. this is not good and the power supply tries to draw more to correct.

a decent $180 cyberpower will have current limiting and pure sine wave and avr. if it doesn't say pure sine wave - you do not want!

cyberpower is the only manufacturer that makes cheap scaling pure sine avr models. tripplite has a cheapie but as you scale towards 2000watts the price becomes 2X (tripp to cyberpower).

 

[westom]

make sure you have a decent ups - pure sine wave (cyberpower has a cheap model) - alot of these folks are having issues with PFC high efficiency power supplies and using cheapo square wave ups' .

A UPS does nothing to solve the OP's problem. UPS is the misguided trying to cure symptoms while intentionally ignoring a potential human safety issue.

UPS outputs some of the dirtiest power electronics may ever see. Power is so dirty as to confuse some PFC circuits. UPS outputs dirty power because it is made as cheaply as possible. Then hypes sine wave so that naive will not know how dirty UPS power traditionally is.

Why so dirty? Because the 'dirtiest' power from a UPS is ideal and not destructive power for any electronics. In each case, part of the process of converting AC electricity to stable DC voltages is to make that electricity even 'dirtier' inside the appliance.

Incandescent bulb dimming says the OP has an obvious and serious wiring problem. Only the least responsible would recommend fixing it with a UPS. But that is what a majority have been told how to think rather than first learn basic electrical concepts. Always get a magic box to cure everything? Nonsense. A UPS is obviously a worst recommendation for the OPs problem - if one first learns basic electrical concepts. Find and fix the wiring problem. Do not cure symptoms with a 'magic box' UPS. Do not leave a potentially serious human safety issue unresolved as Emulex has just recommended.