Poverty in US- What is the bare minimum someone can survive on?

[vi edit]

Location, location, location.

You can live on 20k in a small rural midwest town fairly easily. It's not going to be lavish by any means, but you can do it.

Minimum wage should stay low. Raising it only encourages lethargy and the kills motivation to improve yourself. It also forces employers to raise prices and inflates the market negating the benefits of any minimum wage increase.

Think about it - most employers who hire minimum wage workers also sell goods that most minimum wage workers need. Grocery stores, convenenience stores, fast food places, ect. These are all minimum wage type shops. Making these places cough up more money to pay workers only forces them to raise prices to compensate for the increased payroll.

You make more, but your purchases also cost more now too. And, when those go up, rent is going to go up too because landlords know that you make more so you can pay more now.

It's just a cycle that really gains you nothing.

If you can't make do with what you make you've got three choices:

1) make more either through a better job or a second job
2) spend less
3) move to another area where you get more for your money

 

[SZLiao214]

Originally posted by: phreakah
daddy..... are we poor?

That shook me for some reason.

 

[rasholianmon]

Stan: I need to talk about your flair.
Joanna: Really? I have 15 buttons on. I, uh, (shows him)
Stan: Well, ok, 15 is minimum, ok?
Joanna: Ok.
Stan: Now, it's up to you whether or not you want to just do the bare minimum. Well, like Brian, for example, has 37 pieces of flair. And a terrific smile.
Joanna: Ok. Ok, you want me to wear more?
Stan: Look. Joanna.
Joanna: Yeah.
Stan: People can get a cheeseburger anywhere, ok? They come to Chotchkie's for the atmosphere and the attitude. That's what the flair's about. It's about fun.
Joanna: Ok. So, more then?
Stan: Look, we want you to express yourself, ok? If you think the bare minimum is enough, then ok. But some people choose to wear more and we encourage that, ok? You do want to express yourself, don't you?
Joanna: Yeah. Yeah.
Stan: Great. Great. That's all I ask.

 

[JDub02]

minimum wage is a crock. the only point of a minimum wage increase is to throw a bone to the unions who have contracts tied to the minimum wage. When the minimum wage goes up, so do their contracts without having to renegotiate.

most people who work at so called "minimum wage" jobs are making more than the set minimum anyway. I had a friend who worked at a gas station for a while and was making $8/hr .. well over the set minimum.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Making these places cough up more money to pay workers only forces them to raise prices to compensate for the increased payroll...You make more, but your purchases also cost more now too...It's just a cycle that really gains you nothing.

Read my post above. You are correct that these prices will go up. But they go up far less than the minimum wage went up. Thus overall they are still far better off.

Originally posted by: JDub02
most people who work at so called "minimum wage" jobs are making more than the set minimum anyway. I had a friend who worked at a gas station for a while and was making $8/hr .. well over the set minimum.

In many locations that is true. But from my hometown, there were four types of jobs.
(1) Professional jobs which pay decently. But people with no education aren't getting these.
(2) Walmart cashier which pays 50 cents above minimum wage (the rest like stockers were at minimum wage).
(3) Gas stations, clothing stores, restaurants, grocery stores were all within 15 cents of minimum.
(4) Farm help which starts at minimum and goes up to maybe $1 more than minimum.

Thus the middle class is the walmart cashiers making $5.65 an hour.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Making these places cough up more money to pay workers only forces them to raise prices to compensate for the increased payroll...You make more, but your purchases also cost more now too...It's just a cycle that really gains you nothing.

Read my post above. You are correct that these prices will go up. But they go up far less than the minimum wage went up. Thus overall they are still far better off.

That's just in one place. Fast food goes up. Groceries go up. Household items you buy from Walmart go up. Rent goes up.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

An example of a number of phenomena: (inflation is left out, and rounding is in effect)

A person in a place where a mortgage runs $1k needs to make $1500/mo to live.
That person gets an education, because that's what it takes to get that amount.
That person ends up with a house that costs $200k after 30 years.
That person retires, sells house for $200k, buys a house somewhere cheaper, like $100k, adds $100k to his retirement fund.

Factor in inflation and it becomes something like this:
That person ends up with a house that costs $1M after 30 years.
That person retires, sells house for $1M, buys a house somewhere cheaper, like $200k, adds $800k to his retirement fund.

That's the upside to high housing costs in a certain area. The downside is that _IF_ you don't make it, you end up further in debt that you can believe.

 

[SuperTool]

Just get welfare, subsidized low income housing, state funded health insurance, and work for cash on the side.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
That's just in one place. Fast food goes up. Groceries go up. Household items you buy from Walmart go up. Rent goes up.

Yes they go up. But they all go up a fraction compared to how much the income goes up. Suppose you were offered a $100,000 raise but the things you purchase will goes up $10,000 if you take the raise. Would you do it? Of course. Are you going to complain that no you won't take the raise since things go up? Of course not. Same goes for minimum wage employees. The total expenditures goes up far less than the total income for the vast majority of minimum wage earners. What about the rest? A small percent get fired and thus they lose out and have to find another job.

 

[MySoS]

You can't compare poverty levels in different countries. Relative poverty is measured by how someone is compared to other people in same country. Many of these so called impoverish people in the U.S would not be considured impoverish in countries like france, uk, denmark, ect.

 

[MySoS]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
you can buy a livable 2 bedroom house in the town i live in for $25k

lol I live in a poor neighborhood and someone just sold a 20 year old 3 bedroom home for $275,000. Can't imagine how your neighborhood looks like.

 

[piasabird]

People just get more industrious when they have to do more to survive. From a few seeds you can grow a garden.

 

[PrinceofWands]

It depends on WHERE you live. If you're making 36k a year in my area you're damn well off. 3000sq' house on property, etc. It's only people that try to live in DC or san francisco or other huge metropolis areas that get into trouble. I could live comfortably on my own here for about 12k a year (if I wasn't already in my house that is). That's a nice apartment or rental house in a good area, good food, entertainment, etc. Of course, I don't ever get myself trapped by credit, so that's a big difference right there. As a family of 3 we were comfortable at 20k.

People who use credit can't live as cheaply as those of us that don't. Fact. People that choose to live in inflated areas can't live as cheaply as those of us who don't. Fact. People who live beyond their means can't live as well as those of us who don't. Fact. People that live in a two income household (when there are kids) do not gain the full amount from the second income, and end up spending far more in compensation for the missing home support structure...this largely negates any benefit from a second income, unless it's from the same primary income earner.

Hell, if I wanted to tend a garden and give up some entertainment, I'd have no trouble living on 8-9k a year. In fact I have.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
An example of a number of phenomena: (inflation is left out, and rounding is in effect)

A person in a place where a mortgage runs $1k needs to make $1500/mo to live.
That person gets an education, because that's what it takes to get that amount.
That person ends up with a house that costs $200k after 30 years.
That person retires, sells house for $200k, buys a house somewhere cheaper, like $100k, adds $100k to his retirement fund.

Factor in inflation and it becomes something like this:
That person ends up with a house that costs $1M after 30 years.
That person retires, sells house for $1M, buys a house somewhere cheaper, like $200k, adds $800k to his retirement fund.

That's the upside to high housing costs in a certain area. The downside is that _IF_ you don't make it, you end up further in debt that you can believe.

person w/$1k morgage payment needs only $1500 take home to live?! HOW????????

and is that $1k with or w/o utils (gas/electric/phone) and homeowners insurance?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: MySoS

Originally posted by: FoBoT
you can buy a livable 2 bedroom house in the town i live in for $25k

lol I live in a poor neighborhood and someone just sold a 20 year old 3 bedroom home for $275,000. Can't imagine how your neighborhood looks like.

That's because you're brainwashed. You have no idea that everyones reality is different, and what's true for you holds no meaning to someone a state away, or possibly even next door. I'm not slamming you, just stating a simple fact. People who live their entire lives under blanket assumptions without ever researching the facts are prone to such statements as yours.

There are BEAUTIFUL neighborhoods here, with next to no crime, in great locations, with huge lots, completely renovated...and a 2000sq' home would cost 75-100k. Things are different, everywhere you go.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Just get welfare, subsidized low income housing, state funded health insurance, and work for cash on the side.

tradeoff:
bad neighborhood/high crime rate/constant feelings of being unsafe

thats ok if you grew up on a neighboorhood like that, and that's the only environment you know.

but if you go from a safer neighborhood to a more dangerous one to purposely leech off govt programs, then your quality of life (ie: constant feelings of being scared) would go down

people are happier w/a better quality of life, not lower

 

[chuckywang]

Originally posted by: GimpyOne
Well, you can get by. I'm a grad student in the middle of missouri, almost exactly between St. Louis, Jefferson City, and Springfield.(just a few miles from the population center of the US and less than 2 hours to any of the above) If you know the area, you know where I'm at.

My wife, daughter and I get by on my grad student stipend and my wife's 40hr/week job with neither of us getting benifits so we are getting screwed by health insurance.(She gets about $8/hr right now, I'm stipend) We manage to live on $30K/yr. Not well, and not able to save for the future, but with benifits we could get by pretty well on that in this area of the country.

So it can be done, depending on where yo live, I'm just not sure I would like to do this permanantly.

What's your school and concentration? Also, what is a grad school stipend? I'm going to grad school soon, and maybe I can get a fellowship or a research assistantship.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: MySoS

Originally posted by: FoBoT
you can buy a livable 2 bedroom house in the town i live in for $25k

lol I live in a poor neighborhood and someone just sold a 20 year old 3 bedroom home for $275,000. Can't imagine how your neighborhood looks like.

and tp put thing in perspectve our house 5000sqft, 6 bed room, full basement and 3rd floor, that was gutted and renovated in 97 cost 190,000$

it is all relative