Potential Democrat nitemare scenario coming up?

[glenn1]

As you might know, at this time, Dean in third in Iowa. Democrats have front-loaded their primaries with the intent that the winner would be basically decided by March, so the winner could have extra time to rally everyone under his banner.

But what if the primaries wind up getting totally split and not producing a clear winner? For example, Kerry takes Iowa, Dean takes New Hampshire, Edwards takes South Carolina, Clark takes Michigan, etc? Then you'd have a span of 4-5 months until the Democratic convention where almost of the votes would already be cast, the winner would be uncertain, and the need for a "smoke-filled back room" Convention to select the winner. The choice of winner would be certain to please none of the candidates not selected. In short, could the Democrats have screwed themselves by front-loading the primaries the way they have?

 

[todpod]

Thats what Hillary and Gore are hoping for, so they can ride to the rescue, and won't have to raise any money to do it.

 

[Ferocious]

Bush will be re-elected easily.

The country has not suffered enough yet for a lot of people to wake up.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Iowa Squeaker Could Complicate Rather Than Clarify Campaigns

While possible- It would certainly take quite a few things to fall into place. dean certainly won't give up - neither will Clark or Kerry. Gephardt is done and Edwards - while certainly could be a show stopper - won't do it either. The unhinging hinges on what happens here in Iowa - if dean wins here by a decent margin - the nomination is his(unless some big issue crops up).

IMO ofcourse.

CkG

 

[Dari]

What I'm so shocked and saddened at is that the Democratic Party seems to be pandering to the extreme left of the party when the whole country is moving to the right. It makes no sense. I hope Democrats wake up and choose the right candidate.

 

[chess9]

Don't worry, by the time of the Democratic National Convention the race will be whittled down to just 4 or 5 candidates.

Dari, I feel your pain, what with the country moving so far to the right every moment. Aren't you afraid the earth might tip over? You do believe in a flat earth, right?

-Robert

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Dari
What I'm so shocked and saddened at is that the Democratic Party seems to be pandering to the extreme left of the party when the whole country is moving to the right. It makes no sense. I hope Democrats wake up and choose the right candidate.

How so? Please provide examples of how the Democratic Party is pandering to the extreme left.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Dari
What I'm so shocked and saddened at is that the Democratic Party seems to be pandering to the extreme left of the party when the whole country is moving to the right. It makes no sense. I hope Democrats wake up and choose the right candidate.

How so? Please provide examples of how the Democratic Party is pandering to the extreme left.

Well, the most obvious example is how most candidates have taken up the anti-warrior banner. The second is the support Dean is getting (from establishment figures) because of his anti-warrior stance. Third, protectionism and the "people's power" policy of Gore seems to be gaining ground among the leaders. They want to repeal the Bush tax cuts to finance health welfare and other un-American pet projects of the Democratic party.

This is the same extreme left that has advocated a soft/weak American foreign policy for decades.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: chess9
Don't worry, by the time of the Democratic National Convention the race will be whittled down to just 4 or 5 candidates.

Dari, I feel your pain, what with the country moving so far to the right every moment. Aren't you afraid the earth might tip over? You do believe in a flat earth, right?

-Robert

ROFLMAO, that's a good one, better than CAD's the "Sky is falling".

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Dari
What I'm so shocked and saddened at is that the Democratic Party seems to be pandering to the extreme left of the party when the whole country is moving to the right. It makes no sense. I hope Democrats wake up and choose the right candidate.

How so? Please provide examples of how the Democratic Party is pandering to the extreme left.

Well, the most obvious example is how most candidates have taken up the anti-warrior banner. The second is the support Dean is getting (from establishment figures) because of his anti-warrior stance. Third, protectionism and the "people's power" policy of Gore seems to be gaining ground among the leaders. They want to repeal the Bush tax cuts to finance health welfare and other un-American pet projects of the Democratic party.

This is the same extreme left that has advocated a soft/weak American foreign policy for decades.

LOL "Anti Warrior?" Most of the Neocons are Chickenhawks as are you!

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Dari
What I'm so shocked and saddened at is that the Democratic Party seems to be pandering to the extreme left of the party when the whole country is moving to the right. It makes no sense. I hope Democrats wake up and choose the right candidate.

How so? Please provide examples of how the Democratic Party is pandering to the extreme left.

Well, the most obvious example is how most candidates have taken up the anti-warrior banner. The second is the support Dean is getting (from establishment figures) because of his anti-warrior stance. Third, protectionism and the "people's power" policy of Gore seems to be gaining ground among the leaders. They want to repeal the Bush tax cuts to finance health welfare and other un-American pet projects of the Democratic party.

This is the same extreme left that has advocated a soft/weak American foreign policy for decades.

LOL "Anti Warrior?" Most of the Neocons are Chickenhawks as are you!

chickenhawks?[/b]

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Dari
What I'm so shocked and saddened at is that the Democratic Party seems to be pandering to the extreme left of the party when the whole country is moving to the right. It makes no sense. I hope Democrats wake up and choose the right candidate.

How so? Please provide examples of how the Democratic Party is pandering to the extreme left.

Well, the most obvious example is how most candidates have taken up the anti-warrior banner.

That statement is false. Most of the Democratic candidates have expressed opposition to one of two things. Some oppose our invasion of Iraq, but have said nothing to suggest they oppose use of military force when justified. Others support the action against Iraq, but oppose Bush's lies to justify it, his reckless, belligerent, unilateral rush to invade, and/or his lack of a viable exit strategy.

None of these constitute an "anti-warrior" banner. Your claim is a lie.

The second is the support Dean is getting (from establishment figures) because of his anti-warrior stance.

Redundant and equally false.

Third, protectionism and the "people's power" policy of Gore seems to be gaining ground among the leaders.

"People's power" is an extreme left policy? Interesting. I always thought it was a cornerstone of democracy.

They want to repeal the Bush tax cuts to finance health welfare and other un-American pet projects of the Democratic party.

LOL. That's a lot of empty partisan rhetoric to dump on a single sentence.

Yes, most are suggesting at least a partial repeal of Bush's tax loans, particularly on the wealthy. Given that many on the right also decried these unfunded tax loans as fiscally irresponsible, calling it "extreme left" is disingenuous at best. Opposing Bush's cuts is much more a symptom of being well-informed, fiscally responsible, and unselfishly accepting the reality that we have to pay for the services and infrastructure provided by the government.

Most Americans believe every American child should have access to decent health care. That's hardly an extreme left position.

"Un-American pet projects" has zero content. It is exactly empty partisan rhetoric.

This is the same extreme left that has advocated a soft/weak American foreign policy for decades.

More empty partisan rhetoric, standard Demonize Your Opponents 101. Please provide specific, current examples related to your claim the Democratic Party is "pandering to the extreme left".

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
LOL "Anti Warrior?" Most of the Neocons are Chickenhawks as are you!

chickenhawks?[/b]

Definition
Chickenhawk - n. - A person enthusiastic about war, provided someone else fights it; particularly when that enthusiasm is undimmed by personal experience with war; most emphatically when that lack of experience came in spite of ample opportunity in that person?s youth.

Some individuals may qualify more for their political associations than for any demonstrated personal tendency towards bellicosity. Some women may be included for exceptional bellicosity.

Chickenhawk Headquarters!

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Dari
What I'm so shocked and saddened at is that the Democratic Party seems to be pandering to the extreme left of the party when the whole country is moving to the right. It makes no sense. I hope Democrats wake up and choose the right candidate.

How so? Please provide examples of how the Democratic Party is pandering to the extreme left.

Well, the most obvious example is how most candidates have taken up the anti-warrior banner.

That statement is false. Most of the Democratic candidates have expressed opposition to one of two things. Some oppose our invasion of Iraq, but have said nothing to suggest they oppose use of military force when justified. Others support the action against Iraq, but oppose Bush's lies to justify it, his reckless, belligerent, unilateral rush to invade, and/or his lack of a viable exit strategy.

Provide and prove the "lies" that Bush stated.

None of these constitute an "anti-warrior" banner. Your claim is a lie.

They've jumped on the anti-warrior banner cause it was popular and catapulted Dean to a more challengable position. The others tried to capitalized on that same popularity, not understanding where its true source lies. As you yourself stated, these candidates jumped on the anti-warrior bandwagon but tried to remain ambivalent about military power at the same time. It fooled no one and got them nowhere with the leftest, hard as they tried

The second is the support Dean is getting (from establishment figures) because of his anti-warrior stance.

Redundant and equally false.

It's not false because he got the front-runner position because of the anti-warrior position. Putting the cart before the horse, some figures in the Democratic Party stupidly endorsed him before the primaries began. They foolishly tried to avoid the coming bloodbath but failed miserably by choosing a candidate that doesn't resonate with Clintonian voters.

Third, protectionism and the "people's power" policy of Gore seems to be gaining ground among the leaders.

"People's power" is an extreme left policy? Interesting. I always thought it was a cornerstone of democracy.

In case you don't remember, "People's Power" was the slogan Gore used frequently during his election campaign. It is a wholly European idea that doesn't sit comfortbly with most Americans, except the far-leftist.

They want to repeal the Bush tax cuts to finance health welfare and other un-American pet projects of the Democratic party.

LOL. That's a lot of empty partisan rhetoric to dump on a single sentence.

Yes, most are suggesting at least a partial repeal of Bush's tax loans, particularly on the wealthy. Given that many on the right also decried these unfunded tax loans as fiscally irresponsible, calling it "extreme left" is disingenuous at best. Opposing Bush's cuts is much more a symptom of being well-informed, fiscally responsible, and unselfishly accepting the reality that we have to pay for the services and infrastructure provided by the government.

Most Americans believe every American child should have access to decent health care. That's hardly an extreme left position.

Most Americans also believe that each person should carry his own weight, not have a Big Brotherish socialist system, where everyone sucks from the government's nipples.

"Un-American pet projects" has zero content. It is exactly empty partisan rhetoric.

Socialism is un-American

This is the same extreme left that has advocated a soft/weak American foreign policy for decades.

More empty partisan rhetoric, standard Demonize Your Opponents 101. Please provide specific, current examples related to your claim the Democratic Party is "pandering to the extreme left".

 

[Bowfinger]

Opposing our invasion and occupation of Iraq does not make one anti-war, let alone anti-warrior. Dari, your reply is more empty partisan rhetoric. Your claim the Democratic Party is pandering to the extreme left remains an absurd straw man, completely unfounded in reality.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
LOL "Anti Warrior?" Most of the Neocons are Chickenhawks as are you!

chickenhawks?[/b]

Definition
Chickenhawk - n. - A person enthusiastic about war, provided someone else fights it; particularly when that enthusiasm is undimmed by personal experience with war; most emphatically when that lack of experience came in spite of ample opportunity in that person?s youth.

Some individuals may qualify more for their political associations than for any demonstrated personal tendency towards bellicosity. Some women may be included for exceptional bellicosity.

Chickenhawk Headquarters!

Well, I'm 25 now. I chose Political Economy in college, with a heavy interest in international law. If it makes me a chickenhawk because I support a strong United States/United Nations, international peace and prosperity, and globalization, without doning military fatigues, then I guess that's what I am. But don't think for a second that I won't fight and die for my country simply because I never had the honor of being a soldier.

You think anyone that hasn't worn the uniform is a chickenhawk simply because they advocate a strong military? Has it ever occured to you that those that advocate a strong international system want to prevent the horrors of war (that they may have seen) rather than establish an American imperium?

 

[Jhhnn]

Ahh, we finally come to the great altar of the Right, and the inscription chiseled in the stone base- "Socialism is Un-American".

That's far from true. Many of our society's best features are socialist, and many of Socialism's core beliefs predate the word itself.

One of those core beliefs has to do with the dignity of work, and a demand that all who can should do so. Various schemes to justify inequality of reward with inequality of effort have been advanced by Capitalist theoreticians, none of which have overcome the idea that America is one country, one people, and that our common cause takes precedence over self-serving materialistic greed, particularly as exercised by those very few at the top of the foodchain.

So, uhh, get some air, OK? Step out front onto that socialist sidewalk, get in your automobile with its socialist safety features and emission controls, drive down the socialist road, past the socialist fire dept and cop shop to the nearest socialist park or national forest, take a drink from the socialist drinking fountain, relieve yourself in the socialist restrooms, connected to the socialist sewers and socialist treatment plant. Think about how Social Security maintains your grandparents, about how socialist minimum wage laws and socialist regulation of food, drugs, lending and a myriad of other interventions make our lives better.

Then come back for a nice big helping of crow, and humble pie. Socialism is the glue that makes us into a truly great society, rather than a third world shithole where only the wealthy have much of anything, and they've got it all... Or return to fantasyland, read a lot of Ayn Rand, watch those John Wayne movies, even a little Rambo, visit your favorite internet sites where they'll try to convince you that greed is good, and that the only reason folks don't get ahead is because they're stupid, or lazy, or both...

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Ahh, we finally come to the great altar of the Right, and the inscription chiseled in the stone base- "Socialism is Un-American".

That's far from true. Many of our society's best features are socialist, and many of Socialism's core beliefs predate the word itself.

One of those core beliefs has to do with the dignity of work, and a demand that all who can should do so. Various schemes to justify inequality of reward with inequality of effort have been advanced by Capitalist theoreticians, none of which have overcome the idea that America is one country, one people, and that our common cause takes precedence over self-serving materialistic greed, particularly as exercised by those very few at the top of the foodchain.

So, uhh, get some air, OK? Step out front onto that socialist sidewalk, get in your automobile with its socialist safety features and emission controls, drive down the socialist road, past the socialist fire dept and cop shop to the nearest socialist park or national forest, take a drink from the socialist drinking fountain, relieve yourself in the socialist restrooms, connected to the socialist sewers and socialist treatment plant. Think about how Social Security maintains your grandparents, about how socialist minimum wage laws and socialist regulation of food, drugs, lending and a myriad of other interventions make our lives better.

Then come back for a nice big helping of crow, and humble pie. Socialism is the glue that makes us into a truly great society, rather than a third world shithole where only the wealthy have much of anything, and they've got it all... Or return to fantasyland, read a lot of Ayn Rand, watch those John Wayne movies, even a little Rambo, visit your favorite internet sites where they'll try to convince you that greed is good, and that the only reason folks don't get ahead is because they're stupid, or lazy, or both...

Well said, sir.

:beer:

 

[heartsurgeon]

rest easy..the Republic will survive.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Ahh, we finally come to the great altar of the Right, and the inscription chiseled in the stone base- "Socialism is Un-American".

That's far from true. Many of our society's best features are socialist, and many of Socialism's core beliefs predate the word itself.

One of those core beliefs has to do with the dignity of work, and a demand that all who can should do so. Various schemes to justify inequality of reward with inequality of effort have been advanced by Capitalist theoreticians, none of which have overcome the idea that America is one country, one people, and that our common cause takes precedence over self-serving materialistic greed, particularly as exercised by those very few at the top of the foodchain.

So, uhh, get some air, OK? Step out front onto that socialist sidewalk, get in your automobile with its socialist safety features and emission controls, drive down the socialist road, past the socialist fire dept and cop shop to the nearest socialist park or national forest, take a drink from the socialist drinking fountain, relieve yourself in the socialist restrooms, connected to the socialist sewers and socialist treatment plant. Think about how Social Security maintains your grandparents, about how socialist minimum wage laws and socialist regulation of food, drugs, lending and a myriad of other interventions make our lives better.

Then come back for a nice big helping of crow, and humble pie. Socialism is the glue that makes us into a truly great society, rather than a third world shithole where only the wealthy have much of anything, and they've got it all... Or return to fantasyland, read a lot of Ayn Rand, watch those John Wayne movies, even a little Rambo, visit your favorite internet sites where they'll try to convince you that greed is good, and that the only reason folks don't get ahead is because they're stupid, or lazy, or both...

Well said, sir.

:beer:

:beer:

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
rest easy..the Republic will survive.

That it most definately will.

Now to some of you who dream of a socialist Utopia - good luck, it's not going to happen here.

CkG

 

[Dragnov]

Uhhhh.... Dean not appealing the the leftist on the Democrat side?

Heres a nice Washinton Post article on that.
link

Lots of info in Diary of a Dean-o-phobe
Please don't automatically dismiss it as biased...

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Ahh, we finally come to the great altar of the Right, and the inscription chiseled in the stone base- "Socialism is Un-American".

That's far from true. Many of our society's best features are socialist, and many of Socialism's core beliefs predate the word itself.

One of those core beliefs has to do with the dignity of work, and a demand that all who can should do so. Various schemes to justify inequality of reward with inequality of effort have been advanced by Capitalist theoreticians, none of which have overcome the idea that America is one country, one people, and that our common cause takes precedence over self-serving materialistic greed, particularly as exercised by those very few at the top of the foodchain.

So, uhh, get some air, OK? Step out front onto that socialist sidewalk, get in your automobile with its socialist safety features and emission controls, drive down the socialist road, past the socialist fire dept and cop shop to the nearest socialist park or national forest, take a drink from the socialist drinking fountain, relieve yourself in the socialist restrooms, connected to the socialist sewers and socialist treatment plant. Think about how Social Security maintains your grandparents, about how socialist minimum wage laws and socialist regulation of food, drugs, lending and a myriad of other interventions make our lives better.

Then come back for a nice big helping of crow, and humble pie. Socialism is the glue that makes us into a truly great society, rather than a third world shithole where only the wealthy have much of anything, and they've got it all... Or return to fantasyland, read a lot of Ayn Rand, watch those John Wayne movies, even a little Rambo, visit your favorite internet sites where they'll try to convince you that greed is good, and that the only reason folks don't get ahead is because they're stupid, or lazy, or both...

Your pot-induced rant falls flatly when you say that "America is one country, one people." America may be one country, but it's many people who share an idea. In fact, America is more or less a union than a country, seeing how powerful the rights of the states are. (Though that is being eroded every year, but that's a different story) We are not a homogenous society, where socialism works best. So, go back to the drawing board, pinko. You stumbled out of the gates. Maybe next time.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Ahh, we finally come to the great altar of the Right, and the inscription chiseled in the stone base- "Socialism is Un-American".

That's far from true. Many of our society's best features are socialist, and many of Socialism's core beliefs predate the word itself.

One of those core beliefs has to do with the dignity of work, and a demand that all who can should do so. Various schemes to justify inequality of reward with inequality of effort have been advanced by Capitalist theoreticians, none of which have overcome the idea that America is one country, one people, and that our common cause takes precedence over self-serving materialistic greed, particularly as exercised by those very few at the top of the foodchain.

So, uhh, get some air, OK? Step out front onto that socialist sidewalk, get in your automobile with its socialist safety features and emission controls, drive down the socialist road, past the socialist fire dept and cop shop to the nearest socialist park or national forest, take a drink from the socialist drinking fountain, relieve yourself in the socialist restrooms, connected to the socialist sewers and socialist treatment plant. Think about how Social Security maintains your grandparents, about how socialist minimum wage laws and socialist regulation of food, drugs, lending and a myriad of other interventions make our lives better.

Then come back for a nice big helping of crow, and humble pie. Socialism is the glue that makes us into a truly great society, rather than a third world shithole where only the wealthy have much of anything, and they've got it all... Or return to fantasyland, read a lot of Ayn Rand, watch those John Wayne movies, even a little Rambo, visit your favorite internet sites where they'll try to convince you that greed is good, and that the only reason folks don't get ahead is because they're stupid, or lazy, or both...

Uh, let's see here. Socialism involves having the government provide more than infrastructure and involves government taking on the role of income redistribution. Almost all of the things you list are infrastructure that even libertarians agree government should provide. Let's see.

Sidewalks: infrastructure
Environmental protection: infrastructure
Fire department: classic example of infrastructure
Sanitation: infrastructure
Regulation of food: infrastructure

Social security: socialism
Minimum wage laws: attempted socialism

Even the far right winged libertarians agree that the items listed above should be provided by government. They are certainly not socialist budget items. I think you need to redo your list.

 

[Jhhnn]

Nice try, dissipate. so, uhh, where would you put laws requiring emergency medical care for the indigent? Truth in Lending? The SEC? Anti-trust? Collective Bargaining? Workplace safety and Workmen's comp? Unemployment insurance? Mandatory auto insurance?

It's not so simple when you consider the well-being and productivity of American workers as a form of infrastructure, perhaps the most important of all.

The period from 1945 to 1980 might be viewed as a period of time when we achieved the best balance between capitalism and socialism. Unfortunately, the rhetoric of deception and self-righteous greed has broken the social contract of good corporate citizenship and self restraint by the truly wealthy.

Those examples were basically off the top of my head. One of the primary functions of modern government is to shape and redirect income, investment and industry to serve the common good. Those on the far right claim that supply side trickle down models accomplish that. Given the current state of affairs and our jobless so-called recovery, with lower wages and benefits in new jobs vs old jobs, I'd label that as malarkey...

So far as the actual subject of this thread is concerned, it all depends on whose voters turn out for the caucuses... Dean supporters may not be the majority of potential voters, which is what the polls measure, but their commitment and energy level indicate they'll have a solid turnout. There's plenty of time to deal with Dubya, anyway- he'll play hell campaigning to the middle, as in 2000, and it's good to remember he's a minority president in the first place...