I am taking a biostatistics class this quarter and I found a little passage in my textbook that was very interesting... It was about the placebo effect on aspirine and other analgesic compounds. Roughly 10-30% of populations of people surveyed around the U.S. experience this effect. Now what do you think the medicine/pharmaceutical industry would do in light of all this data? Why, make 10-30% of the capsules inside a bottle of say, Tylenol, placebo sugar pills. Heck, prescription dilutions already take place, this my be the extreme! This is why so many people take so many doses of Advi, Tylenol, or Excedrin every day, not because of the severity of their headaches, but because 30% of the actual doses they ingest is just inert chalk and sugar. Think about this now....
Potential CONSPIRACY in the Medicine/Pharmaceutical Industry!!!
- Thread starter Kraid2xd
- Start date
Kadarin
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2001
- 44,296
- 16
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I was thinking about this the other day, not from the standpoint of major pharmeceutical companies, but rather from the standpoint of shops like GNC which sell "supplements" like DHEA, HA, HGH, etc.. Supplements that have no immediate effect even when ingested in proper dosage. Unless someone's out there doing random lab testing to verify content and dosage, who's to say you're not ingesting powdered cat piss (and in the incorrect dosage, I might add)?
pffft people are not taking drugs because of the placebo effect, they are taking drugs because of the media telling them "if you are not sick then you just haven't had enough tests done on you"
in the 60s or 70s it was ok if you were healthy, now though, everybody must be sick in some way or another. why is it that now it seems 200% of kids have ADD? it's all made up! that thing on South Park saying to use th treatment "now sit down and study before i pop you in the mouth again" was pretty much dead on correct, people don't have problems but they are lead to believe that they do.
as for a conspiracy of medicines, there actually is one. it's not based on the medicine being fake, but on the price of the medicine. perscription drugs in the US cost like 10x that of drugs in Canada. why you ask? no it is not becaue the government subsidized it (they don't), people from the US come in bus loads to Canada to buy their drugs and that's good because all parties win. Canadian stores make money, Canadian government makes money (but squanders it sadly), the US people save tons of money.
there is actually another thing, with people led to believe they have pain even when it's all in their head, drug companies come up with pain killers. some of the perscription pain killers are actually narcotics, are made from opium, these drugs sell for lots on the streets and they are actually highly addictive.
the conspiracy is in cost and addiction.
in the 60s or 70s it was ok if you were healthy, now though, everybody must be sick in some way or another. why is it that now it seems 200% of kids have ADD? it's all made up! that thing on South Park saying to use th treatment "now sit down and study before i pop you in the mouth again" was pretty much dead on correct, people don't have problems but they are lead to believe that they do.
as for a conspiracy of medicines, there actually is one. it's not based on the medicine being fake, but on the price of the medicine. perscription drugs in the US cost like 10x that of drugs in Canada. why you ask? no it is not becaue the government subsidized it (they don't), people from the US come in bus loads to Canada to buy their drugs and that's good because all parties win. Canadian stores make money, Canadian government makes money (but squanders it sadly), the US people save tons of money.
there is actually another thing, with people led to believe they have pain even when it's all in their head, drug companies come up with pain killers. some of the perscription pain killers are actually narcotics, are made from opium, these drugs sell for lots on the streets and they are actually highly addictive.
the conspiracy is in cost and addiction.
Kadarin
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2001
- 44,296
- 16
- 81
It's also about pharmeceutical companies direct marketing their wares to the public: "If you think Zoloft/Viagra/Claritin/whatever is right for you, see your doctor..." Seems like any time anyone here on ATOT starts an "I'm depressed" thread, someone chimes in about what medication they're on, what dosage, etc. I, for one, do not want to be dependent on mood-altering medication just to get through daily life. These people need to get a grip.
for 90% of the stuff on TV you could substitute in the drug/chemical known as ethanol
ethanol is cheap, fast, effective, has minimal side effects and it's non perscription
"have an asperin while having a heart attack and it could save your life"
this is due to asperin's effect of stopping blood clots and thinning out the blood. ethanol is a liquid, because of this it is absorbed into the blood faster and it has the same effects
"take zoloft to treat depression"
ethanol is known to cause happiness in times where sadness would usualy take place, ethanol's effect on the brain is to cause the subject to think in terms of the present instead of the future as well as it releases endorphins and makes everybody you meet seem interesting.
"take (forgot the name) to treat sleeping disorder"
ethanol causes sleepiness because it keeps the liver busy as well as many other things, the need for more energy to make chemical reactions happen will naturaly make the subject fall asleep. ethanol is "all natural" because it can be found anywhere in the world.
"take blah blah pain killer"
ethanol numbs the senses in all nerves throughout the body, although it dulls pain, it also has drowsy effects so don't operate while using heavy machinery
btw did i mention that ethanol is known as "booze", "hooch" and "liquor"?
pardon my spelling
ethanol is cheap, fast, effective, has minimal side effects and it's non perscription
"have an asperin while having a heart attack and it could save your life"
this is due to asperin's effect of stopping blood clots and thinning out the blood. ethanol is a liquid, because of this it is absorbed into the blood faster and it has the same effects
"take zoloft to treat depression"
ethanol is known to cause happiness in times where sadness would usualy take place, ethanol's effect on the brain is to cause the subject to think in terms of the present instead of the future as well as it releases endorphins and makes everybody you meet seem interesting.
"take (forgot the name) to treat sleeping disorder"
ethanol causes sleepiness because it keeps the liver busy as well as many other things, the need for more energy to make chemical reactions happen will naturaly make the subject fall asleep. ethanol is "all natural" because it can be found anywhere in the world.
"take blah blah pain killer"
ethanol numbs the senses in all nerves throughout the body, although it dulls pain, it also has drowsy effects so don't operate while using heavy machinery
btw did i mention that ethanol is known as "booze", "hooch" and "liquor"?
pardon my spelling
prove the placebo thing or prove my drinking alcohol fixes all thing?
drink half a case of beer and my case is proven
his placebo theory is not supposed to be real i don't think, it's just suggestive as in "is this possible" and not as "pssst there are aliens in my bedroom"
drink half a case of beer and my case is proven
his placebo theory is not supposed to be real i don't think, it's just suggestive as in "is this possible" and not as "pssst there are aliens in my bedroom"
HOWITIS
Platinum Member
- Apr 26, 2001
- 2,165
- 0
- 76
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,344
- 126
We have this little department called "The FDA" that more or less prevents this.
Asprin, Tylenol, Advil, and their generic counterparts are all passed through FDA standards and must follow FDA guidlines or else the producers are big trouble.
Supplements that you buy in the herbal and home remedy section ARE NOT FDA approved, and do not have to pass FDA inspections and guidelines. For all you know, you may be getting bat sh!t in a gelcap and they'll sell it to you as a herbal suplement.
Asprin, Tylenol, Advil, and their generic counterparts are all passed through FDA standards and must follow FDA guidlines or else the producers are big trouble.
Supplements that you buy in the herbal and home remedy section ARE NOT FDA approved, and do not have to pass FDA inspections and guidelines. For all you know, you may be getting bat sh!t in a gelcap and they'll sell it to you as a herbal suplement.
I know about the beer thing.
The title to this thread suggests a conspiracy on the part of the medical proffesion, pharmacists, pharmacutical companies, the government, etc.... Those are the people who would all have to be involved to pull this off.
All of this suggested by a passage in a biomedical statistics book. Either the author/s of the book are guilty of slander or the author of the thread is looking to raise some hell.
I know the placebo effect exists. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the drug company's have taken advantage of it.
Assumption is the mother of all f***ups.
The title to this thread suggests a conspiracy on the part of the medical proffesion, pharmacists, pharmacutical companies, the government, etc.... Those are the people who would all have to be involved to pull this off.
All of this suggested by a passage in a biomedical statistics book. Either the author/s of the book are guilty of slander or the author of the thread is looking to raise some hell.
I know the placebo effect exists. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the drug company's have taken advantage of it.
Assumption is the mother of all f***ups.
i don't trust anything that is "all natural" or "herbal" and here is why:
herb Pronunciation Key (ûrb, hûrb)
n.
1. A plant whose stem does not produce woody, persistent tissue and generally dies back at the end of each growing season.
2. Any of various often aromatic plants used especially in medicine or as seasoning.
nat·u·ral Pronunciation Key (nchr-l, nchrl)
adj.
Present in or produced by nature: a natural pearl.
-marijuana is herbal and all natural
-coca is herbal and all natural
-poison ivy is herbal and all natural
-opium is herbal and all natural
some of the most lethal poisons known to man are natural and many of them are found in leaves or berries of plants.
herb Pronunciation Key (ûrb, hûrb)
n.
1. A plant whose stem does not produce woody, persistent tissue and generally dies back at the end of each growing season.
2. Any of various often aromatic plants used especially in medicine or as seasoning.
nat·u·ral Pronunciation Key (nchr-l, nchrl)
adj.
Present in or produced by nature: a natural pearl.
-marijuana is herbal and all natural
-coca is herbal and all natural
-poison ivy is herbal and all natural
-opium is herbal and all natural
some of the most lethal poisons known to man are natural and many of them are found in leaves or berries of plants.
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,344
- 126
I would also like to add that with the current craze of SUE SUE SUE!!!! a drug manufacturer would have to be half freaking retarded to even THINK about pulling something like this off. That company would have so many lawsuits thrown at it, the costs associated with the lawsuit would FAR outweigh any gains that they may have in skimping on drugs.
You do realize that we can test for serum levels of these drugs. It is not all symptom based. Yes we have seen the quacks on the news who water down and cut their patients meds...
How can you argue about the antihypertensives. You can't wish your blood pressure lower. Same for the glucose control meds. You can't wish for 85-100 glucose.
As far as the public vs advertising subject.... If the general public would wake up and realize that 90% of their aches, pains and general discomfort is part of living and will self resolve then we wouldn't have these problems. It is amazing how many patients a day i see and have to tell them, "Ma'am, it's a viral illness." They demand to take some magic pill that will cure it all and cure it NOW! No cures, you will get better. Hydrate and let nature work.
How can you argue about the antihypertensives. You can't wish your blood pressure lower. Same for the glucose control meds. You can't wish for 85-100 glucose.
As far as the public vs advertising subject.... If the general public would wake up and realize that 90% of their aches, pains and general discomfort is part of living and will self resolve then we wouldn't have these problems. It is amazing how many patients a day i see and have to tell them, "Ma'am, it's a viral illness." They demand to take some magic pill that will cure it all and cure it NOW! No cures, you will get better. Hydrate and let nature work.
911paramedic
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2002
- 9,448
- 1
- 76
<< You do realize that we can test for serum levels of these drugs. It is not all symptom based. Yes we have seen the quacks on the news who water down and cut their patients meds...
How can you argue about the antihypertensives. You can't wish your blood pressure lower. Same for the glucose control meds. You can't wish for 85-100 glucose. >>
Yup.
Many patients with chronic illness NEED to take their meds to survive. Hypertension, cardiac problems, asthma, diabetics, etc. If you give them placebos they can die from it, no mind over body here. People do take way too many drugs though, I agree. Doctors seem to think if they don't give you something that your visit was for nothing. They have been giving meds this way for many years now, but it is starting to change. The psychiatrist is a whole different animal, they seem to throw everything in the book at patients. I have a big problem with them giving 10 year olds psychotropic meds at that age.
The placebo effect? It does exist, but not for all meds at the same percentages. Asprin may be in the high range, while digitalis would be low (a antiarrhythmic med).
I, for one, do not want to be dependent on mood-altering medication just to get through daily life.
you apparently haven't had a mental illness. it's pretty debilitating.
Doctors seem to think if they don't give you something that your visit was for nothing.
i could say the same about patients
you apparently haven't had a mental illness. it's pretty debilitating.
Doctors seem to think if they don't give you something that your visit was for nothing.
i could say the same about patients
911paramedic
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2002
- 9,448
- 1
- 76
<< Doctors seem to think if they don't give you something that your visit was for nothing.
i could say the same about patients >>
Sorry, that is what I meant, the MD has to give them because the patient demands them or they feel wronged.
Many, of course not all, mental illnesses thrive only because of society and thos DAMN PSYCHIATRISTS.
I speak from experiece. Take it only as MY experiece. Nothing concrete.
I was feeling bad because I had gotten a really bad illness my junior year in highschool, and had started failing for the first time in my life. I was basically the perfect before that...straigt A's...maybe a B+ here and there. THe truth was I was in a pnic because I was Violently ill EVERYDAY, and I couldn't go to school, which basically something I enjoyed challengin myself with.
IT was really heard after my paarents took me to a psychiatrist and he told me I had "depression." Worst ofall, he let me, a child for the sake of bluntness, do most of the talking and thinking. I know the heart of joy is in the discovery, but NOT when you have NOTHING to go by. I basically blew up my problems to epic proportions due to my lack of maturity at the time. Cna you believe he prescribed Prozac the day I hit a squirrel with my car!!!>????!!!??! He had asked me how my day went and I told him it was fine except for the squirrel incident, and that although it made me feel bad, I had accepted that I could not have stopped without getting rearended at 40mph. He then somehow ended up going into the "deeper meanin: of the incident. it was BS. I was OVER it, and he made me question myself to the point where opinions or theories began to cloud my mind where the Clearcut truth used to be. He was the most wrong-doing man in medicine I have ever met. I basically had to go to a Therapist to fix what the psychiatrist di!
The fact that there are commericials made me question my need for them even more?
But what...why am I not on anything now?
One of the worst things imaginable happened this, my first year of college, about 4 weeks before Christmas.
I had tried to call my Dad @ his cell with no results one day to continue consoling him after getting fired from his Foreign-exchange College job of 17years... I tried home, family, nothing. He had basically dissapeared. His stuff was gone too from my uncles' house were they, as three bothers, shared a home.
No one knew where he was. We were about to call the cops when he called me on a thursday evening at my dorm
My dad had ran off with some chick to Carson city. Tell me if that wouldn't have DISABLED you in some way. I was flabergasted. I missed the entire week before winter break..I didn' teven go to class to hand in a paper that i had already written...I didn't care.
BUT did I take Prozc?, did I TAKE ZOLOFF DID I TAKE ANYTHING TO HELP ME?
No.
I ended up failing college calc 3 times as well as physics whilest I got help from counselors and a priest.
I am back on track now, sort of anyway, passing my classes, if not by only a smidge of an amount the fact is that I am stll here.
No suicide attempts.
No Drugs. (ever)
No alcohol(ever)
no medicine(drugs/over the counter/prescription/illegal)
And I am still here.
It is hard mind you, but possible. I feel crabby alot, but I know why ..
ALL i have is the word of God, however corny that sounds....but it works
I still respect thaat there are those with serious mental problems that NEED to be treated, but strongly believ, and know of, those who take the easy route.
In 7 years they will sill be poppin pills.
In 7 years, I'll have my masterin Electrical Engineering. In 9 I'll have my MBa or IST undergarduate equiv. In 11 I;ll have the other one.
Life is persistance. Persistance is life. Whether you are scavanging for food or trying to deal with failing family, persistance is key.
I speak from experiece. Take it only as MY experiece. Nothing concrete.
I was feeling bad because I had gotten a really bad illness my junior year in highschool, and had started failing for the first time in my life. I was basically the perfect before that...straigt A's...maybe a B+ here and there. THe truth was I was in a pnic because I was Violently ill EVERYDAY, and I couldn't go to school, which basically something I enjoyed challengin myself with.
IT was really heard after my paarents took me to a psychiatrist and he told me I had "depression." Worst ofall, he let me, a child for the sake of bluntness, do most of the talking and thinking. I know the heart of joy is in the discovery, but NOT when you have NOTHING to go by. I basically blew up my problems to epic proportions due to my lack of maturity at the time. Cna you believe he prescribed Prozac the day I hit a squirrel with my car!!!>????!!!??! He had asked me how my day went and I told him it was fine except for the squirrel incident, and that although it made me feel bad, I had accepted that I could not have stopped without getting rearended at 40mph. He then somehow ended up going into the "deeper meanin: of the incident. it was BS. I was OVER it, and he made me question myself to the point where opinions or theories began to cloud my mind where the Clearcut truth used to be. He was the most wrong-doing man in medicine I have ever met. I basically had to go to a Therapist to fix what the psychiatrist di!
The fact that there are commericials made me question my need for them even more?
But what...why am I not on anything now?
One of the worst things imaginable happened this, my first year of college, about 4 weeks before Christmas.
I had tried to call my Dad @ his cell with no results one day to continue consoling him after getting fired from his Foreign-exchange College job of 17years... I tried home, family, nothing. He had basically dissapeared. His stuff was gone too from my uncles' house were they, as three bothers, shared a home.
No one knew where he was. We were about to call the cops when he called me on a thursday evening at my dorm
My dad had ran off with some chick to Carson city. Tell me if that wouldn't have DISABLED you in some way. I was flabergasted. I missed the entire week before winter break..I didn' teven go to class to hand in a paper that i had already written...I didn't care.
BUT did I take Prozc?, did I TAKE ZOLOFF DID I TAKE ANYTHING TO HELP ME?
No.
I ended up failing college calc 3 times as well as physics whilest I got help from counselors and a priest.
I am back on track now, sort of anyway, passing my classes, if not by only a smidge of an amount the fact is that I am stll here.
No suicide attempts.
No Drugs. (ever)
No alcohol(ever)
no medicine(drugs/over the counter/prescription/illegal)
And I am still here.
It is hard mind you, but possible. I feel crabby alot, but I know why ..
ALL i have is the word of God, however corny that sounds....but it works
I still respect thaat there are those with serious mental problems that NEED to be treated, but strongly believ, and know of, those who take the easy route.
In 7 years they will sill be poppin pills.
In 7 years, I'll have my masterin Electrical Engineering. In 9 I'll have my MBa or IST undergarduate equiv. In 11 I;ll have the other one.
Life is persistance. Persistance is life. Whether you are scavanging for food or trying to deal with failing family, persistance is key.
<< i don't trust anything that is "all natural" or "herbal" and here is why:
herb Pronunciation Key (ûrb, hûrb)
n.
1. A plant whose stem does not produce woody, persistent tissue and generally dies back at the end of each growing season.
2. Any of various often aromatic plants used especially in medicine or as seasoning.
nat·u·ral Pronunciation Key (nchr-l, nchrl)
adj.
Present in or produced by nature: a natural pearl.
-marijuana is herbal and all natural
-coca is herbal and all natural
-poison ivy is herbal and all natural
-opium is herbal and all natural
some of the most lethal poisons known to man are natural and many of them are found in leaves or berries of plants. >>
that's probably the dumbest, and most one sided arguement i've ever seen for people that are "anit-herbal."
more natural poisons:
-methanol causes blindness in even small doses and can quickly kill if as much as 100ml is consumed at one time
-methanel kills very very fast in small doses
-amonia is naturaly produced in the bodies of animals before it turned into urea
-most leaves contain minute amounts of poison to prevent animals from eating them
-sulfur dioxide is found in high concentrations in volcanic regions
nature is not the cute and cuddly place everybody thinks it is.
-methanol causes blindness in even small doses and can quickly kill if as much as 100ml is consumed at one time
-methanel kills very very fast in small doses
-amonia is naturaly produced in the bodies of animals before it turned into urea
-most leaves contain minute amounts of poison to prevent animals from eating them
-sulfur dioxide is found in high concentrations in volcanic regions
nature is not the cute and cuddly place everybody thinks it is.
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