(Possibly) getting back into watercooling

[Valantar]

When I bought what's still (!) the backbone of my gaming PC a little over eight years ago, I bought a DIY watercooling kit (120mm rad, pump+res combo, hoses, CPU block) from a now defunct Norwegian specialist company called MIST. This served me okay for a year or two until I forgot to tighten the refill cap on the reservoir properly, moved my case, had a tiny leak, and freaked right the f*ck out. I promptly bought an air cooler, and haven't touched watercooling since.

A couple of weeks ago, I came across a dirt cheap (400NOK, or around $50 including 25% VAT) EK full-cover waterblock (acetal+nickel edition) for my R9 Fury X. Of course this card is watercooled already, but it's kind of whiny and the AIO cooler places a lot of restrictions on case selection - I'm planning on replacing my mobo+CPU in a few months, and want to move to a smaller case than my Fractal R4.

I bought the waterblock on a whim, and I'm trying to figure out how to make the best use of it. Unfortunately I've thrown out everything but the radiator from my old kit, so as of now I haven't even come close to testing it. But that's not the issue as of now.

I've come to understand that watercooling has come a long, long way in recent years, which is why I'm asking for advice.


I'm waiting for Zen to see which CPU will be the best choice (I'm thinking a midrange 6c12t Zen CPU might fit the bill, but that depends on whether it lives up to the hype, and pricing). This is mainly a gaming PC, and won't be used for video editing or anything like that, so I don't need a billion threads. I'll probably not be overclocking, at least not at first. My first priority is low temps, stability, and reasonable silence (yes, I know big air is ultimately more quiet). My budget isn't huge either (considering I'll be replacing most of the PC), but I'm willing to splurge a bit on cooling this time.

My current thinking is this: get a waterblock for my new CPU, a 240 or 280 rad, keep my old 120mm rad as well (why not? It's free after all), plus some sort of pump+reservoir combo. My local computer shop (www.digitalimpuls.no) carry a decent selection of EK parts plus some other brands, and I'd like them to stay in business, so I'll shop there as much as possible. Of course I'll be using flexible tubing.

Questions:
-What kind of pump would I need for a setup like this? Can one of the cheaper EK pump+res combos do the job (e.g. this: https://www.digitalimpuls.no/pc-kom...-pump-leveres-uten-nippler-138835-p0000142082), or would I have to spring for one with a better pump? I'm hoping to be able to run the pump relatively slow to keep noise in check.
-Is there any reason to ditch the old rad? I'm reasonably certain it's copper, but it's also a little corroded, at least around the ports. I've rinsed it out, and the water came out clean, so it's neither clogged or full of gunk that will mess up the system (AFAIK).
-Would I be better off using a separate pump and reservoir? I'm thinking in terms of cost, noise and practicality in a medium-to-small case.
-Is there any reason to use a huge honking reservoir like all the bling-obsessed YouTubers have? I'm not planning on showing off the build in any way.
-I understand mixing metals is a big no-no and causes corrosion on anything copper. Is this only when mixing aluminium and copper, or does nickel make this even more complicated?
-How do I best clean out my old radiator to get rid of whatever corrosion there is? I've considered spraying a bunch of WD-40 into it, but that doesn't really seem like a good idea (at least I'd have to rinse it for hours). Any tips?

And of course: is there anything I haven't thought of?

 

[aigomorla]

Questions:
-What kind of pump would I need for a setup like this? Can one of the cheaper EK pump+res combos do the job (e.g. this: https://www.digitalimpuls.no/pc-kom...-pump-leveres-uten-nippler-138835-p0000142082), or would I have to spring for one with a better pump? I'm hoping to be able to run the pump relatively slow to keep noise in check.
1 -Is there any reason to ditch the old rad? I'm reasonably certain it's copper, but it's also a little corroded, at least around the ports. I've rinsed it out, and the water came out clean, so it's neither clogged or full of gunk that will mess up the system (AFAIK).
2 -Would I be better off using a separate pump and reservoir? I'm thinking in terms of cost, noise and practicality in a medium-to-small case.
3 -Is there any reason to use a huge honking reservoir like all the bling-obsessed YouTubers have? I'm not planning on showing off the build in any way.
4 -I understand mixing metals is a big no-no and causes corrosion on anything copper. Is this only when mixing aluminium and copper, or does nickel make this even more complicated?
5 -How do I best clean out my old radiator to get rid of whatever corrosion there is? I've considered spraying a bunch of WD-40 into it, but that doesn't really seem like a good idea (at least I'd have to rinse it for hours). Any tips?

And of course: is there anything I haven't thought of?

1. Depends a lot on how much restrictions were talking about.
What kind of CPU block? Does it have an injector head?
What kind of Gpu block? Does it also have an injector head?
How many radiators and what kind of radiators?
How many feet of tubing? Yes im serious... a system which uses 5 feet of tubing is a lot less restrictive then one that uses 15 feet.
Normally id say a DDC is about good for almost everything, or a single D5 even, until we get into blocks which uses injector heads to accelerate water. The pump you listed by eK is a OK, pump.
Its not the best in the market, but it will do an OK job as long as you go with a low restriction setup.

2. There is no advantage in using a all in one pump/res, vs having them separate.
The only advantage id say is probably the size and space a all in one takes up.
There are also bay res's which house D5 pumps that fit in 5 1/4 bays. Of course a D5 bay res will probably cost more as the D5 pump is almost 80-90 USD by itself.

3. Other then looks? Well sort of. The more water volume you have, the longer the hold potential of said system.
Basically it will take longer for a system to reach equilibrium, but the time difference is not as large as one thinks.
The other advantage is that tubing is naturally porous, unless we go into the hard tubing which you see in some builds.
Personally id rather top off my system then use a hard tubing, because once a hard tubing rig is setup, it is a major PITA to remove something vs regular.

4. Copper and Alu is a big no no... Copper and nickle is fine. Copper and Brass is also fine.
Nickle and Silver will void most vendor warranty because our hobby is saturated with fake silver which started corrosion and made the nickel plate to flake and peel.
Basically i blame the introduction of Chinese Silver that screwed up the trust in silver. It had a high iron content mixed into it, and claimed it was 99.999% pure silver, when it wasn't, or they used sterling silver and passed it off as pure silver, which again isn't.

Vendors used this as an excuse to void warranty of nickel saying it starts corrosion, however if one looks at a anodic index, you see the value is very small. About the same as nickel vs brass in regards to nickel vs silver and brass has not be ban'd by vendors, hence why i state the fake silver which was introduced has screwed up the reputation of silver in our hobby.

Also vendors arent plating the expensive nickel anymore, and instead trying to cut cost by plating with the cheaper nickel.

So if your going to use silver, don't use it on the nickel, or don't expect your RMA to approved if your nickel starts to flake and peel.

Also all vendors will require you to use a premix which makes me sad, because its a step backwards into our hobby.
This is something i will never accept, hence why the only nickle blocks i use are derlin cover blocks, where the nickle plating is more important for the exterior then interior wetted, and i use straight distilled with a silver kill coil and not care about the nickel flaking if it does flake.

5. Use a Radiator flush from a autostore, and then flush it out, with water, and then rince it out with distilled.
It should be a 3 step process.

1. Get a Radiator flush like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Prestone-AS1...qid=1478544833&sr=8-1&keywords=radiator+flush
Fill your radiator with flush, make sure you read the dilution instruction if it has one.
Allow it to sit in your radiator for 15 - 30 min.

Then connect radiator to a hose and flush the flush out.
Allow water to keep flushing to make sure you got all the flush out.

Fill radiator with distilled water to flush out all the Tap.
Repeat with distilled about 2-3 times to make sure you got all the minerals in tap water out of the radiator.
Cover inlet holes with packaging tape to keep airtight seal until you use the radiators, and to prevent stuff getting inside them.

 

[Valantar]

1. Depends a lot on how much restrictions were talking about.
What kind of CPU block? Does it have an injector head?
What kind of Gpu block? Does it also have an injector head?
How many radiators and what kind of radiators?
How many feet of tubing? Yes im serious... a system which uses 5 feet of tubing is a lot less restrictive then one that uses 15 feet.
Normally id say a DDC is about good for almost everything, or a single D5 even, until we get into blocks which uses injector heads to accelerate water. The pump you listed by eK is a OK, pump.
Its not the best in the market, but it will do an OK job as long as you go with a low restriction setup.

2. There is no advantage in using a all in one pump/res, vs having them separate.
The only advantage id say is probably the size and space a all in one takes up.
There are also bay res's which house D5 pumps that fit in 5 1/4 bays. Of course a D5 bay res will probably cost more as the D5 pump is almost 80-90 USD by itself.

3. Other then looks? Well sort of. The more water volume you have, the longer the hold potential of said system.
Basically it will take longer for a system to reach equilibrium, but the time difference is not as large as one thinks.
The other advantage is that tubing is naturally porous, unless we go into the hard tubing which you see in some builds.
Personally id rather top off my system then use a hard tubing, because once a hard tubing rig is setup, it is a major PITA to remove something vs regular.

4. Copper and Alu is a big no no... Copper and nickle is fine. Copper and Brass is also fine.
Nickle and Silver will void most vendor warranty because our hobby is saturated with fake silver which started corrosion and made the nickel plate to flake and peel.
Basically i blame the introduction of Chinese Silver that screwed up the trust in silver. It had a high iron content mixed into it, and claimed it was 99.999% pure silver, when it wasn't, or they used sterling silver and passed it off as pure silver, which again isn't.

Vendors used this as an excuse to void warranty of nickel saying it starts corrosion, however if one looks at a anodic index, you see the value is very small. About the same as nickel vs brass in regards to nickel vs silver and brass has not be ban'd by vendors, hence why i state the fake silver which was introduced has screwed up the reputation of silver in our hobby.

Also vendors arent plating the expensive nickel anymore, and instead trying to cut cost by plating with the cheaper nickel.

So if your going to use silver, don't use it on the nickel, or don't expect your RMA to approved if your nickel starts to flake and peel.

Also all vendors will require you to use a premix which makes me sad, because its a step backwards into our hobby.
This is something i will never accept, hence why the only nickle blocks i use are derlin cover blocks, where the nickle plating is more important for the exterior then interior wetted, and i use straight distilled with a silver kill coil and not care about the nickel flaking if it does flake.

5. Use a Radiator flush from a autostore, and then flush it out, with water, and then rince it out with distilled.
It should be a 3 step process.

1. Get a Radiator flush like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Prestone-AS1...qid=1478544833&sr=8-1&keywords=radiator+flush
Fill your radiator with flush, make sure you read the dilution instruction if it has one.
Allow it to sit in your radiator for 15 - 30 min.

Then connect radiator to a hose and flush the flush out.
Allow water to keep flushing to make sure you got all the flush out.

Fill radiator with distilled water to flush out all the Tap.
Repeat with distilled about 2-3 times to make sure you got all the minerals in tap water out of the radiator.
Cover inlet holes with packaging tape to keep airtight seal until you use the radiators, and to prevent stuff getting inside them.

Thanks for a thorough reply!

1: I don't know which CPU block I'll be getting yet, as that depends on what CPU I end up getting, as well as price. My GPU block is the EK-FC R9 Fury X Acetal + Nickel, which I understand is a low-restriction block. As for radiators I'll stick to the 120mm I already have and some kind of 240 or 280mm in addition to this. I've considered repurposing the AIO rad from the Fury X, but this seems rather unnecessary (and I'd be unable to sell the card afterwards). Exact radiator model choice also depends on which case I'm getting (as does tubing length), as I'm planning to move to a compact mATX or ITX case. How can I tell if a radiator is high or low restriction? Tubing will in all likelyhood be minimal, a few feet at most.

2: I've considered a bay reservoir, but as most cases I'm considering don't have 5,25" bays that's most likely out of the question. Is there any noise difference between pump/res combos and having them separate? My immediate thought is that the mass of the res might dampen pump vibrations somewhat, although I'm probably not taking everything into account.

3: Will the increased water volume also mean lower equilibrium temperatures? If so, by how much? If it's a few degrees, I don't really see the point - especially in a small case where a large reservoir would be hard to refill.

4: So as long as I stick to, say, brass fittings, copper rads and nickel-plated or copper waterblocks, I'll be fine? Is there any argument for/against going for a nickel-plated CPU block when the GPU block is nickel-plated too? Also, where does silver come into the question? As an anti-bacterial agent? TIM?

5: Thanks for the tip! That seems straight-forward enough. I'll have to look into sourcing something like that here in Norway, but it's probably doable.

 

[aigomorla]

1. typically the thicker the radiator the less restriction it will have.
I would not re-purpose a AIO radiator. Those sometimes are constructed out of ALU instead of pure copper.

2. the noise would be mostly on the pump. The res will not dampen anything. If anything a bay res might transfer vibrations thoughout the case, so it could be a win or lose situation based on the mass of your case and what floor its on.

3. no... ambient is always your floor, and c/w is a number in which relations to the heat exchange potential of the overall system.
More water will not make your system run cooler. More radiators, higher flow, or better blocks will because you will get a better cooling potential from more efficient system.

4.Nickel is fine with copper. Nickel is plated over copper anyhow. Brass is an alloy of copper, so its also fine. Silver was used as a anti microb, and in some cases, as a block itself.

 

[imported_ats]

Thanks for a thorough reply!

1: I don't know which CPU block I'll be getting yet, as that depends on what CPU I end up getting, as well as price. My GPU block is the EK-FC R9 Fury X Acetal + Nickel, which I understand is a low-restriction block. As for radiators I'll stick to the 120mm I already have and some kind of 240 or 280mm in addition to this. I've considered repurposing the AIO rad from the Fury X, but this seems rather unnecessary (and I'd be unable to sell the card afterwards). Exact radiator model choice also depends on which case I'm getting (as does tubing length), as I'm planning to move to a compact mATX or ITX case. How can I tell if a radiator is high or low restriction? Tubing will in all likelyhood be minimal, a few feet at most.

http://www.xtremerigs.net/2015/02/11/radiator-round-2015/ has restrictions for a wide variety of radiators from pretty much all the manufacturers. The reality is that the radiator is highly unlikely to be a restriction bottle neck in a real system.

2: I've considered a bay reservoir, but as most cases I'm considering don't have 5,25" bays that's most likely out of the question. Is there any noise difference between pump/res combos and having them separate? My immediate thought is that the mass of the res might dampen pump vibrations somewhat, although I'm probably not taking everything into account.

Res's really don't have enough mass to significantly attenuate the vibrations.

3: Will the increased water volume also mean lower equilibrium temperatures? If so, by how much? If it's a few degrees, I don't really see the point - especially in a small case where a large reservoir would be hard to refill.

Increased volume will only affect rate of change, not equilibrium.

4: So as long as I stick to, say, brass fittings, copper rads and nickel-plated or copper waterblocks, I'll be fine? Is there any argument for/against going for a nickel-plated CPU block when the GPU block is nickel-plated too? Also, where does silver come into the question? As an anti-bacterial agent? TIM?

If you already have nickel in the system and the block isn't using a cheap/thin plating, then it really doesn't matter. Overall, nickel doesn't provide any performance advantage and can result in reduced performance (though minimal, basically the nickel/copper interface added another discontinuity in heat transfer). Although in some cases they do an additional polishing step before the nickel plating that may or may not result in a more even contact surface.

 

[WhiteNoise]

I have used a Swiftech MCP655-B in all of my water builds. I have owned 4-6 of them over the years. They are powerful. They also have a fantastic warranty. Customer service is great as well when working on a RMA. Worth every penny.

Cleaning rads I just use boiling distilled water. Lots of shaking, dumping and refilling until good and clean. I also prefer to use a silver coil in all of my custom water builds, I never use cooling fluids or fluids with color. I only use distilled water.

I also prefer to use silver fittings.

You don't have to use a large res but I like Danger Dens res as it is a decent size and easy to will or drain. Looks like they went out of business though.

Pump: https://www.koolertek.com/computer-parts/pc/Swiftech-MCP655-B-Pump-224p1458.htm

 

[BonzaiDuck]

2. the noise would be mostly on the pump. The res will not dampen anything. If anything a bay res might transfer vibrations thoughout the case, so it could be a win or lose situation based on the mass of your case and what floor its on.

I have a first and simple thought about that. What are the obstructions or difficulties in some rubber isolation strategy for the reservoir or res-pump combination? It would be more tedious for a bay reservoir, or make it more difficult to remove when necessary. It could even seem impossible.