Possible to leech Windows 98 off PC?

[Gord]

Got an old Packard Bell at a yard sale for $10 and want to leech the OS off of it before I format, because I'm gonna install Linux. Is there any way to do this?

 

[bacillus]

You could always ghost the OS to some CDRs

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: Gord
Got an old Packard Bell at a yard sale for $10 and want to leech the OS off of it before I format, because I'm gonna install Linux. Is there any way to do this?

Yes, however be careful.
Packard Bell PCs use something called a Tattoo to lock the motherboard & the HD together. The info is written into the DMI area in the BIOS, and onto an Extended Hidden Sector on the hard disk. If you wipe either part of them, the PC will either not boot Windows any more, or will refuse to restore.

It is possible to write a new tattoo, but it requires a fair degree of skill, large amounts of detailed system specs and the original Master CDs (the discs used to restore the machine).

Lastly, if the machine has a hidden partition of around 2Gb, then that will be holding the recovery CDs in a compressed format. If you wipe that paritition, you will need to call Packard Bell, who may or may not still hold the discs. If they don't, you're out of luck.

The reason I advise caution with this is if you format the HD and install Linux, it may just wipe out the hidden sector, leaving you unable to get the PC back and booting correctly, even after you Ghost it.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Dopefiend

Originally posted by: Gord
Got an old Packard Bell at a yard sale for $10 and want to leech the OS off of it before I format, because I'm gonna install Linux. Is there any way to do this?

Yes, however be careful.
Packard Bell PCs use something called a Tattoo to lock the motherboard & the HD together. The info is written into the DMI area in the BIOS, and onto an Extended Hidden Sector on the hard disk. If you wipe either part of them, the PC will either not boot Windows any more, or will refuse to restore.

That's interesting, and the first that I've ever heard of that. Do you have a link with more information? Also, could you please define "Extended Hidden Sector", because I've never seen that term used either. 😛

Originally posted by: Dopefiend
It is possible to write a new tattoo, but it requires a fair degree of skill, large amounts of detailed system specs and the original Master CDs (the discs used to restore the machine).

Lastly, if the machine has a hidden partition of around 2Gb, then that will be holding the recovery CDs in a compressed format. If you wipe that paritition, you will need to call Packard Bell, who may or may not still hold the discs. If they don't, you're out of luck.

The reason I advise caution with this is if you format the HD and install Linux, it may just wipe out the hidden sector, leaving you unable to get the PC back and booting correctly, even after you Ghost it.

Wait, so you are saying, that even after installing Linux, on a fresh HD - a Packard Bell machine will not boot? What if you replace the factory HD altogether?

Basically, this is rather curious, because I've been working with PC's for years, and I've never heard of any of this, although the last Packard Bell that I've touched, was probably a 486 machine.

I know that Compaq uses a special "hidden" diagnostic partition, that you can't access BIOS setup if you blow it away, but AFAIK it will still boot to an installed OS in that condition. Some IBM (laptops, I think?) also similarly utilize a hidden partition.

Are you sure that you aren't just referring to a service ID number/serial number that the OEM vendor writes into the BIOS DMI data, that the CD-based "restore" discs look at before they will restore the OS onto the HD?

Edit: Found this link , which seems to explain the procedure.

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
That's interesting, and the first that I've ever heard of that. Do you have a link with more information? Also, could you please define "Extended Hidden Sector", because I've never seen that term used either. 😛

Extended (or sometimes Extra) Hidden Sector is the term used by Packard Bell.

Wait, so you are saying, that even after installing Linux, on a fresh HD - a Packard Bell machine will not boot? What if you replace the factory HD altogether?

Nope, not saying that. I'm saying that if you wipe out the Tattoo, then if you Ghost the installation of 98 back to the drive, it will not work. Period.

Basically, this is rather curious, because I've been working with PC's for years, and I've never heard of any of this, although the last Packard Bell that I've touched, was probably a 486 machine.

As have I; the only information I have on the web about it is the Packard Bell Dealer site, and I can't give you access to that.

Are you sure that you aren't just referring to a service ID number/serial number that the OEM vendor writes into the BIOS DMI data, that the CD-based "restore" discs look at before they will restore the OS onto the HD?

The Tattoo process does do that. It can also stop the machine booting.

Edit: Found this link , which seems to explain the procedure.

That's a fairly vague description of the process.
However, let me clarify something.

If you simply want to copy the tattoo from the DMI area to the EHS, then this command will suffice:

tattoo /createdmifromhs

and vice versa:

tattoo /createhsfromdmi

However, if the DMI portion is scrambled (and believe me, it looks scrambled to the checking program more times than I'd care to mention), then you have to re-Tattoo the machine from scratch:

exths /restore

NOTE With Windows 98 machines, you need a Format Part Number, which you cannot get anywhere except from Packard Bell's telephone support guys. Without this, you are screwed.

 

[InlineFive]

Wow, they certaintly make it hard to work on those PCs.

 

[imported_Phil]

I found a link on the PB site explaining a tiny bit more about the EHS:

Clicky linky

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: PorBleemo
Wow, they certaintly make it hard to work on those PCs.

Damned right. The number of Tattoos and restores I had to perform was just insane. The Windows 98 machines were the absolute worst- requiring multiple Tattoos, HDs zero'd, DMI information cleared, special bypass-the-check disks (no, I'm not giving that info out, sorry)....

One machine took me two days to successfully restore. Packard Bell were on the phone with me for four hours over those two days, and they were stuck too.

It really is the worst system ever devised, and they don't even tell the end-users about it unless they absolutely have to.

 

[timswim78]

nm

 

[VirtualLarry]

Wow. Thanks for the info. I'm glad that I never had the occasion to work on late-model P-B boxes. Sheesh. And I thought that MS's Windows XP product-activation scheme was bad!

 

[imported_Phil]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Wow. Thanks for the info. I'm glad that I never had the occasion to work on late-model P-B boxes. Sheesh. And I thought that MS's Windows XP product-activation scheme was bad!

No problemo - MS Activation is a cinch compared to this system 🙂

 

[thermalpaste]

I had a Hewlett Packard Brio BA-600, and these smartasses at HP would allocate 16 Megs of the primary partition For system data(all encrypted stuff which I couldn't decipher apart from config.sys, io.sys, command.com....), etc. without this data, the recovery CD would never install the OS. I realised that when I upgraded my hard-disk. SO after partitioning 16Mb as the first partition on my new drive, I just needed to copy those files, and the recovery CD did actually work.........this was way back in 1999.....