possible scam by a toyota car mechanic

EmperorNero

Golden Member
Jun 2, 2000
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my mom got this coupon in the mail for an oil and filter change for $20 from Performance Toyota. so I scheduled an appointment to bring in the car. I talked on the phone with this guy who said the total time would be 20 mins and that nick would be servicing us. when my mom came in with the car ('89 Camry), the mechanic(s) spent a total of 45 mins working in the car, despite the guy saying it was only 20 mins. Afterwards, my mom was rushing towards work because she was late. then she noticed that whenever she would slow down, the steering wheel would start vibrating. she waited a few days after the incident to decide to have it fixed because she wasn't so sure about what to do. so I called the customer service dept to schedule an appointment and explain the problem. the lady asked who helped us, I said "nick" and she hung up to call him. after a few mins, she calls back saying nick is not in his office and that she'll give us a call the next day. the next day came and she called. I wasn't there but my sister picked up. my sister told me that nick says it was because of the brakes. and she didn't tell me if he said anything else.

there are a few things that seem very suspicious:
1) before the oil change, the car was fine...it was after it that the steering would start shaking. btw, can that steering wheel problem cause an accident? and can I threaten them with a lawsuit if an accident does occur?

2) why would the guy who scheduled the appointment say the oil and filter change would take only 20 mins when the mechanics worked on the car for 45 mins? what were they even doing?

3) we had the call come into performance toyota a bit more than a year ago for a brakes problem. they fixed it for $1400 and there was a 1-year warranty should the same problem occur within in a year. now that the one year warranty was just over (july 14), it seems even more suspicious. perhaps the mechanic rigged our car on purpose when it was just out of warranty so we would have to pay them for their service

4) when I talked to that customer service lady, she said that she doesn't see how changing an oil would affect the steering wheel since the oil/filter change had no direct contact with the steering wheel or its part. then the next day, nick somehow figured out it was the brakes that's been having problems.

I've tried to take out the bias in the story as much as possible and tried to present it in a neutral way. me and my mom don't know much about cars so I need your guys' help/tips on this. in fact, we're asians and my mom doesn't speak english well, which was obvious to the mechanics when we brought in the car, so she could have been an easy target for a scam. was there something wrong with the way the mechanics did something and please also address the suspicions listed above. do you think I've been scamed? if so, how would I deal with this? and if we do have to pay them for fixing the breaks problem, it's probably going to cost us $1400 like last time.
 

convex

Banned
May 24, 2000
2,227
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bring it to another mechanic (family friend maybe?) and have them look at it and tell you what is wrong. $1400 for brakes? jesus
 

T2T III

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,899
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As advised, bring the car to another mechanic to have it checked out.



<< if we do have to pay them for fixing the breaks problem, it's probably going to cost us $1400 like last time. >>


It will only cost you $1,400 if you go back to the same place (dealership). Find another reputable mechanic who can do the work for you. I don't understand why people are so set on having the dealership repair their vehicles. There are many good after-market parts available and any qualified person can do the work. All that you really might need are new brake pads and to have the rotors resurfaced (if they are warped, nicked, etc.) Consider this: For my vehicles, I can get the front rotors turned @ $5.00 (each). Plus, after-market heavy duty brake pads only run about $30.00 for my vehicles. Having another shop re-do your front brakes in this manner should be only $400 (tops) - provided there are not any issues with the caliper or any other parts. I doubt if you need to touch the rear brakes. Brake jobs on the front can last a shorter time - because the front brakes wear faster than the rear brakes. And, yes, the front brakes on my Dodge Stratus started to vibrate while braking one year after the brake job was done on the car.

From what you have described, the problem sounds like the issue could be with the front brake rotors. Shaking can occur when stopping if the rotors are warped. Rotors can get warped by excessive heat that gets created from the friction while using the brakes. Also, the warping can occur from the lug nuts being improperly torqued.

This also could be a very simple issues. Maybe the mechanic had to take the front wheel off to get to the filter and then incorrectly put the front wheel on.

You're best to see another mechanic - soon, so that if there is some damage, you won't make it worse.

 

dogbite

Banned
Jan 3, 2000
159
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EN, when driveing the car and applying the brakes if the steering wheel shakes it means that the front rotors are not true, sometimes they can be cut to run true,but this may not work,they may need to be replaced,also I would check that the front wheels are tight just to be safe,this problem can happen if you ride the brakes alot or it could be done on a lift by a bad mechanic by applying the gas and the brakes at the same time and heating up the brake pads and rotors,I would go to a local repair shop, they are cheaper then a toyota dealer, and always ask for a estimate........good luck
 

Wangel

Banned
Mar 30, 2000
1,491
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Good Going! You caught them!

1) If you steering wheel started shaking right after an oil change, they must have done something!

2) They probably spent 20 minutes changing your oil, and the next 25 minutes sabatoging your car!

3) They probably also realized that your 1 year brake warranty had just run out, and now they have the chance to get you for another $1400.

4) You even have the customer service &quot;LADY&quot; (obviously an expert mechanic)who agreed with you that changing the oil should not affect your brakes.

SUMMARY: They pulled a number 522 on you. This is where you come in for an unsuspecting oil change, and they break your fibulator on your brakes, only after carefully checking the service records to make sure you are out of warranty. Don't worry, the customer service lady is in on the scam too.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
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The only scam I see here is the $1,400 for the brake job! Next time take it to more than one place for estimates for the work. Find a good mechanic that you can trust and stick with him. Brakes, exhaust and even oil change can be done pretty cheap by quite a few franchise outfits.

The 45 minute wait could have been from any number of interruptions or delays while doing the job. Learn how to do this yourself. I know people say it isn't worth the effort, but at least you'll know it's done right, all lube points are hit and if any aren't taking grease.

It might just pay to grab a solid RWD American car next time around. You know, the type your local police department and cab drivers use? These &quot;economy&quot; cars don't seem too economical when it comes to repairs!
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
The steering wheel shakes when slowing down because the brake rotors are warped. This is easily fixed by having them turned and putting replacing the pads. Probably a $100 job at most brake shops.

And no, it's impossible for the dealer to warp your rotors inside their service bay.
 

Shudder

Platinum Member
May 5, 2000
2,256
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I hate car places.

My brake indicator lights (on the dash) were on so I thought I had a serious problem. Took it to midas and after inspecting everything said it would be a bit over 600 bucks. The college student I was, I said F that and decided death was something I could handle.

I was afraid to get my brakes done after I graduated because of the 600 I was expecting to pay. Took it in to a different place (pep boys) and the grand total was about 160.. I asked if they were sure and yep, they were. Over a year later no problems at all and my brakes work wonderfully. Only thing I hate about them is I wanted them to rotate my tires. When I went to pay they said &quot;We didn't charge you for the tire rotation.&quot; COol I thought, till I checked them. Since one tire was a different brand and another had a mark on it still from being repaired, I knew damn well they didn't move a single one.
 

perry

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2000
4,018
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Shoot, even those RWD police type cars aren't the greatest. My mom had a 94 Crown Vic that was burning oil at a rate of one oil pan every 3 weeks. I go home one time, she tells me she just filled it up with oil 3 weeks ago, check the dipstick -- the thing is bone dry. We traded the car in two days later.

$1400 for a brake job is outrageous. I have expensive parts on my car. Rotors cost me $150/pair. New caliper would be $175, rebuild kit was $30 (caliper was leaking, I opted for the rebuild kit). Doing the work myself incurred $0 in labor, about $230 in parts for new rotors, one rebuild kit, and new pads (I change the pads when I change the rotors regardless of how the old pads look). Even if I had gone with new calipers, I woulda come out under $600. Figure 3 hours of labor @$70/hour (took me 4 because I work slow and drink beer as I go) and you're around $700. $1400 is a complete ripoff.

Sounds like the rotors are warped now, which is possible after 15 months. Could just be coincidence that it happened right after an oil change. Coulda taken 45 minutes because the mechanic got called away to help with something else for a few minutes, or he had another car in front of yours, whatever. Take it to an indenpendent shop and have them look at it. Don't do it tomorrow, do it TODAY. Figure out what's wrong and stick it to the dealership. And next time your mom goes there, go with her. Sad but true, dealers take advantage of women.
 

Viperoni

Lifer
Jan 4, 2000
11,084
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They took the car for a test drive and knocked a curb, your alignment is out.
75% chance that's it.
 

Wangel

Banned
Mar 30, 2000
1,491
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It is NOT impossible for a mechanic to warp rotors in his stall. Be carefull using that word!

1) If the rotors are hot, he could apply a bit of freon or cold water to the rotors. If they are not hot, he could heat them up by running the car on the lift with the brake on.

2) He could remove the rotors and physically bend the rotors in a vice or press.

3) He could over-tighten the lug nut, which is the most common.
 

EmperorNero

Golden Member
Jun 2, 2000
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thanks a lot everyone - it seems like the general concensus agrees it's a rotor (whatever that is) problem. I just got some new info: my sister elaborated on what the guy said when he called when I wasn't home. he said that the brakes were triggered or something like that when he was changing the oil/filter.

I think the $1400 was justified since our car suffered a serious breakdown. we were going home and then it started slowing down and just stopped. then my dad had to call a tow truck to tow it into performance toyota to get it fixed. so here's the receipt:

page 1
page 2

so was $1400 still too much?

and now I'm not so sure what to do. my dad wants to bring the car back into PT to get the problem fixed already. my mom wants to bring it to a friend mechanic but my dad's afraid he might overcharge us. so should we bring the car so the mechanic friend can fix it?
 

IBhacknU

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,855
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yes... use a friend you can TRUST.

Also, only one of your pages is working above. Page 1 and 2 are the same link.
 

TomC25

Platinum Member
Oct 12, 1999
2,120
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Hey EmperorNero

I live just south of Greenhills

another Cincy Anandtecher

cool
 

EmperorNero

Golden Member
Jun 2, 2000
1,911
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ibhacknu, I'm gonna convince my dad to bring it to the mechanic friend. thanks.

tomc25, who else is an anandtech from/around cincinnati?
 

Antisocial Virge

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 1999
6,578
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well for one thing your $1400 brake job was actually only like $29 on the brakes, They spent A LOT on the steering though and just a regular tune up. Did you tell them to replace almost all of your power steering components after the breakdown?
 

TomC25

Platinum Member
Oct 12, 1999
2,120
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cant remember his name

something like BigCfromCincy

he is in the Wyoming area



and Kitros

he works in Sharonville area
 

miken

Senior member
Mar 22, 2000
710
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Strange, you seem to have paid for a power steering pully? This wasn't much of a brake job, they only cleaned them, gave you a tune up, and fix a power steering leak. Unless this is a wrong receipt. I think your sorely mistaken about this whole thing.
 

T2T III

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
12,899
1
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<< took me 4 because I work slow and drink beer as I go >>


Perry, I don't think I'd be drinking beer while working on your brakes. :Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q For some reason, the two don't go hand-in-hand.
 

Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
I don't wanna nitpick too much there Wangel, but my rotors get &quot;cold water&quot; splashed on them every time I drive when it snows. Over tightening your lugnuts might warp your rotor slightly assuming your rim is bent severely, possible, but not probable. Also someone would have to be superman to bend a relatively new rotor in a vise, I mean your typical power assisted caliper can exert much more compressive force than any workbench vise--every time you press down on your brake when you aren't moving would result in a bent rotor!!

But yeah, I guess it's possible...... :D
 

Wangel

Banned
Mar 30, 2000
1,491
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The others are right, the steering pump, boots and majority of other parts were for the steering, not the brakes. Likewise, it appears the car was brought in because of a non-start problem which the tuneup/distributor fixed.

I always hated customers that came in for a small light bulb and then came back weeks later to complain that now their engine just threw a rod. If people would remember to maintain their vehicle as quickly as they are ready to blame the mechanic, there would be a lot less law suits. :disgust:
 

cxim

Golden Member
Dec 18, 1999
1,442
2
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I would say you were scammed the first time around.

Your car stalled &amp; they put in a new power steering system. P S does not cause a car to stall. Why the hell did they do that ?

you were charged $257. to 'check things' pure fu##ing ripoff.

$25. to clean your brakes.... that means they sprayed a $3. can of cleaner on the brakes &amp; took total of 6 minutes.

$200. labor to change cap, rotor, &amp; plugs ? &amp; $7. a plug ?

all this &amp; your Dad thinks a friend may overcharge ?
 

EmperorNero

Golden Member
Jun 2, 2000
1,911
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ok, we just got the car fixed by the friend mechanic, total cost was $50: $18 for the parts and $32 for labor. was that a fair price?