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Portable mp3 players......a joke?

Prodigy^

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
4,044
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I've been thinking about this lately.....they're a joke! Let's compare them to mindiscs for example.....

* 1.5 the price (top to top product)
* "discs", ie: the flash cards are 30-40 times the price of a "minidisc-disc"
* you can't exchange "discs" (unless you're f'n rich and all your friends have the same player as you which is unlikely)
* they swallow batteries like I don't know what, I've been told
* You must have access to a computer to use it and get new music
* In most cases, because flash memory cards are so sickenly overpriced, you can only have one bunch of music lying around at a time.

COME ON! This stinks! So expensive and so useless......man......!

post your opinions, I wouldn't mind some back-arguements from some happy mp3-player owners :)
 

Jimbo

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,641
0
76
Well... I own a Rio500 and I could not be happier. I have never owned a Minidisk player so I cannot compare it to that but it sure beats the hell out of the cassette players and Portable CD Players I have owned.
Yes, you do need a computer, but I am sure that EVERYONE here has one of them thar newfangled devices. :)
All in all they may be a bit more expensive that a Minidisk player but if you have one of the 64Meg versions then the memory limitations are not that bad. Besides, how would you record to a mini disc with out a computer AND a burner?
Maybe I'm dumb about those things.
Finally the flash cards are not THAT bad (price about $160 for 64 more MB) and I am sure they will be getting cheaper over time.
 

Prodigy^

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
4,044
1
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$160!!!! yikes, they're something like 40 times more expensive than minidiscs!!!!!!!!! holy crap......

and nah you can record from anything with a line-out, so you don't need a computer :)
 

Jimbo

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,641
0
76
Humm...
OK, my final reason is that it looks cool and the chicks dig it! :p
 

AngelOfDeath

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2000
1,203
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0
Haven't you heard about the new flashcard from IBM?. It's capacity is 350mb!!!. It's actually a small hd which makes it possible for you the store the data permanently instead of the small and stupid flashcards.

Think about it...how many mp3's can you store on a 350mb flashcard like that...something near 100 numbers depending on the bitrate.

This is awesome!!! :)
 

luv2chill

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2000
4,611
0
76
ok well I'm a gadget freak and I have both (or I will after my $50 Nomad II is delivered).

I agree that MD is tres cool in all aspects--except for the damn 1x recording. God that just blows. But it's okay if you plan well enough in advance.

But sometimes if I'm going to work out or whatever, I might just want to take a few songs I just downloaded. With the Nomad, it's USB speed, so we're talking seconds. With MD, I've got to hook it all up, stop all other wave sources (like IE browser clicks and ICQ "Uh Oh" etc.) and then record each song in real-time.

But MDs are much more cost effective as far as storage goes.

Oh yeah, the Nomad also has FM radio... which is also cool when working out sometimes.

God I wish there was a happy medium--an MD player capable of making a digital (data) connection to a computer, while retaining all of its current features, that had an FM radio, and ran for hours on one AA battery.

The only other feature I wish was computer enabled was disc titling. It's cool to put the titles in but a definite pain in the a$$ with just a portable player.

l2c
 

Prodigy^

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
4,044
1
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yeah, it's nice that you can transfer a file very quickly.....

i don't worry about sounds I have stripped all sounds from Windows :)
 

llamaman

Member
Jul 3, 2000
31
0
0
Well, they are good if you download a lot of songs (Napster, Gnutella), as you can simply transfer them to disks and play them. Of course, right now it's probably more simple to get a CD-RW or something but prices will eventually drop and the disks will get bigger.

* 1.5 the price (top to top product)

The prices will drop, give it some time. Not many of them out there, and the music companies are doing everything they can to make it stay that way.

* "discs", ie: the flash cards are 10-15 times the price of a "minidisc-disc"

Again, at the moment. They are also more expensive to make than mini-disc's.

you can't exchange "discs" (unless you're f'n rich and all your friends have the same player as you which is unlikely)

Thats the good part? You don't "have" to exchange them, you simply trade songs on them through the net. Your friend wants songs? Send them to him. You want his songs? Send them to them.

* they swallow batteries like I don't know what, I've been told

Haven't heard this...

* You must have access to a computer to use it and get new music

As opposed to buying a new cd? (and you dont have to be at a computer to play it)

* In most cases, because flash memory cards are so sickenly overpriced, you can only have one bunch of music lying around at a time.

Keep the rest on your harddrive.


Well, its still somewhat new and I wouldn't buy one at this time, but the above are some arguments.






 

Relf Lauren

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
1,833
0
0
Everyone that got in on the Emusic deal will surely agree that MP3 players are better :)


Relf Lauren
 

Hector13

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2000
1,694
0
0
How about the fact that my sony md player skips if I try to run or jog with it?
I don't think my $50 Nomad II will ever give me that problem.

Also, minidiscs use an older compression technology and (in theory) don't have the same quality as mp3s.
 

pg22

Platinum Member
Feb 9, 2000
2,644
0
76
I've had a Rio 300 and thanks to the EMusic deal, I have a Nomad 2...and I would have paid full price for it too. Here's why...

the gym

It's really as simple as that. Spending 2 hours every other day at the gym, I can justify the ridiculously high price for these things (and even worse for the media in my opnion).
 

Sir Fredrick

Guest
Oct 14, 1999
4,375
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CD-R's beat minidiscs at everything you mentioned :)

* 1.5 the price (top to top product)

Prices are about the same for a CD burner compared to a minidisc writer. (but then you need a minidisc reader in your car and your sterio system and your computer, to make an MD come close to the versatility of a CD)

* "discs", ie: the flash cards are 10-15 times the price of a "minidisc-disc"

How much does a minidisc go for? I get my CDRs for about $.50. That's 30 times as expensive.
Ok, I found a 20 pack for $40. So $2/each compared to $.50 each is 4 times as expensive

* you can't exchange "discs" (unless you're f'n rich and all your friends have the same player as you which is unlikely)

Exchanging CDRs is easier and cheaper than exchanging MDs :) Can't give a MD to a friend who doesn't have a player. Nearly everyone has a CD player.

* they swallow batteries like I don't know what, I've been told

CD players have been around for a long time, most are pretty energy efficient now.

* You must have access to a computer to use it and get new music

True only if your burner is internal and not a standalone model.

 

eelw

Lifer
Dec 4, 1999
10,337
5,489
136
That IBM microdrive that AngelOfDeath mentioned costs over $500 at least. The cost/meg is cheaper that Flash memory at least. The 2 main benefits I see with MP3 players is the size, and they run on a single AA battery for many hours (unlike what Prodigy was told.) I personally own a Minidisk. It is still small in size, CD sound quality, and it runs on a single AA for about 5 hours. Have around 20 MD disks, (about $5 per disk) so I just copy over them as I get new CD's. The only problem with MD recording is that it is slow. You play and record in realtime. So it takes around a hour to record each MD disk. Unlike with a MP3 player, downloading off a computer can be done around 10 minutes. Even burning audio CD's at 4x takes only about 15 to 20 minutes.

Personally, I will stick to my MD.
 

Wizkid

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 1999
2,728
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0
I had a RIO, but sold it because it could hold VERY FEW songs :( It was only the 32 MB version. I now own a Panasonic Shockwave Portable CD player and like it better than the RIO because it uses regular CD's (which I have a quite a few of already), the media is cheap, it holds more songs, and it is good on battery life (about 35 hours on 2 AA's). It also doesn't skip, even when running or jogging.

The nice thing about the MP3 player was that it was very small. It could easily fit in my pocket and then I could forget about it :)

I hope that MP3 players continue to decrease in cost and increase in storage capacity. I can't wait for the new ones in a few years that will use the fluorescent disks which are the size of a smartcard and hold 1 GB's worth of data. They all also predicited to only cost $4 per card :)
 

AngelOfDeath

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2000
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I know its expensive now the IBM flashdisk, but I bet a good 100$ bill that in ½-1 year it will be in a payable range to us :)

AoD
 

randomlinh

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,846
2
0
linh.wordpress.com
Here's my view:

MP3: Usually smaller, and PERFECTLY skip free. I can still make a minidisc skip when I jog, yes, a 40sec one too. Transfer is A LOT faster. Even w/ parallel (tho, after using USB, not going back).

Minidisc: hrmm.. sounds a lot better (tho, my nomad II is close, bass wise). Them discs are much cooler :) Feels more durable, not cheap plastic.

The cost of the actual players I see is just about the same. Mediawise, MD wins hands down. But the whole time it takes to record just turns me off.


 

slacker2

Member
May 8, 2000
93
0
0
Here's my opinion on the various types of portable stereos - feel free to add/correct.

1. Portable CD-players - at the moment probably the cheapest and most versatile portable stereo solution, excellent sound reproduction quality (at least with Sony and Panasonic units :), blank CDRs are dirt cheap - around $1/disk, sometimes even cheaper.
Cons: if you want to listen to mp3's, have to convert them to WAV files and then burn to an audio CD, players and media are bulky, only 74 minutes of music per disk. IMHO, skipping is not an issue with the latest players (especially with the new Sony G-protection units).

2. Hybrid CD/CD-ROM mp3 players (play regular CDs as well as mp3's burned onto CD-R. Currently there's only one on the market - the Genica (under several different labels), it's cheap ($100), full of bugs, poor build quality, extremely poor sound quality - in other words, it's total junk. However, things are about to change as the mainstream consumer electronics manufacturers move into the market. Philips has a unit slated for release in late August, which you can check out at http://www.expanium.philips.com. Last time I heard, Aiwa, Kenwood and RCA were also developing similar units, which isn't surprising, since Kenwood already has a car mp3 CD player on the market, and Aiwa is putting one out this fall. IMHO, this would be the ideal portable stereo for the general consumer. The biggest drawbacks are once again, bulky players and bulky media. Of course one needs to own a CDR drive, but these days everyone and their grandma has one.

3. MD players - they have a lot going for them. Most units have very good sound reproduction quality (powerful bass, etc). The compression algorithm used in today's MD units is roughly equivalent to mp3's encoded at 224kbps (there's a lot of arguments whether ATRAC is inherently superior to mp3, I won't get into that because, frankly, I have no clue :)
Minidisks are much smaller than CDs and are almost as cheap as CDRs (for example, amazon.com and Circuit City sell 20-packs of 74-minute disks for $30, which comes to $1.5 per disk). Finally, when it comes to looks, MD players look great. When I pay 300 bucks for a portable stereo, it better look like it's worth 300 bucks, and most MD players deliver - the cheapest MD player looks much better than the most expensive MP3 player. As for the cons, the biggest one is the real-time recording (some MD boomboxes and decks offer 2X CD to MD dubbing, but that's about it). Also, you cannot transfer song titles when recording - titling every song manually by pressing a couple of tiny buttons? I have better things to do with my time, thank you very much :)

4. Flash-based MP3 players - the pluses are their small size and lack of moving parts. The drawbacks, however, are quite significant. First, the storage media used in most players is extremely expensive (go to Pricewatch and check out the prices for a 128MB CompactFlash card or a 64MB SmartMedia card, then figure out how many songs you'll be able to fit on one - not that many, especially if you use bitrates above 128kbps). As a result, most people won't be able to afford more than a couple of memory cards, which pretty much ties you to your PC. Going on a trip? You'd better REALLY like the 15 or so songs you've loaded into your MP3 player. If you want sound quality that will approach that of an MD player, you have to use higher bitrates (192kbps and up), which will limit the number of songs you can load at one time even further.

Second, the currently available MP3 players are still not up to par with CD or MD players as far as sound reproduction quality is concerned (crappy bass, distorted vocals, etc). The third drawback, and I realize that this is not a concern for some people, but it is for me - all MP3 players I've seen so far look and feel cheap. The Rio 600 is a step in the right direction, but they put on this rubber coating which will peel off in a couple of months...ugh.

5. HD-based MP3 players - presently there's only one available (the PJB), but Creative has one coming out in a few months. I haven't seen the one that's available, so I can't comment on it, but from what I can see now, the main problems are the size and the price - the PJB goes for $600, while the Creative Nomad Jukebox will go on sale for the low price of $400 :)

6. MP3 players with other storage options - again, don't know much about these, supposedly there's a unit coming out that uses Clik disks, those are cheap, but can only hold 40 megs, so I see no real advantages over a MD player.

To summarize, there is no best solution, it all depends on what you want from your portable stereo. If price is the primary consideration, your best bet would be an ordinary CD walkman, or, if you can wait a few months, a hybrid CD/mp3 CD unit.
If you lead an active lifestyle and want a portable stereo for jogging/working out, then get a MP3 player - they are tiny, skip-proof and since you won't be venturing far from your PC for prolonged periods of time, limited storage isn't a big consideration. Also, if you have a digital camera and are going to invest into CompactFlash or SmartMedia cards anyway, might as well get yourself a MP3 player. Finally, the build quality of MP3 players is getting better and better, compare the first Rio and the latest (Rio600), so I think that in a year or two most MP3 players will lose the "garage-brand" look and feel.
As for MD?it's kinda in-between the two - it allows digital recording from a PC (although for that you need a USB to optical adapter, $100 for a Xitel DG-1, or about $250 for a Roland model), it is smaller than a CD player, uses cheap storage medium and offers sound reproduction quality that is pretty much equal to that of a CD player.
Some MD units look extremely cool - a friend of mine bought a Panasonic Shockwave series MD walkman when he was in Japan - the body is made of titanium, and it looks awesome...
 

Mday

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
18,647
1
81
if you want to have your old TAPE or CD in a new smaller format, MD is the way to go. solid state memory has it's place, but not in an MP3 player.