Portable Generators and "dirty power"

[BoomerD]

I'm looking at a couple of different portable non-inverter generators for emergency back-up power for the house. (Under $1000, up to about 750 running watts)
Not whole-house with transfer switch, just an inlet box connected to a duplex outlet that is not connected to the house wiring.
so...non-inverter generators tend to have pretty high THD, some as much as 25%...that can be a killer for sensitive electronics. I have a Tripp Lite UPS...is that enough of a "power conditioner" to take care of it? I know there are "double conversion" types that are recommended..,but the price for one of those is crazy...I'd be better off buying a smaller inverter generator...then have to constantly switch what's plugged it to keep from overloading it.

Also, I'm seeing several portable generators that "require" a grounding rod for safety?

 

[Scarpozzi]

I think the cheap UPS systems like that aren't like the big ones. They operate more like a traditional transfer switch. Once they sense the power in is no longer there, only then do they switch to battery.

Mine always click loudly when the power goes out and again when it's restored.

I would expect them to provide typical surge protection, but that's it.

 

[BoomerD]

I think the cheap UPS systems like that aren't like the big ones. They operate more like a traditional transfer switch. Once they sense the power in is no longer there, only then do they switch to battery.

Mine always click loudly when the power goes out and again when it's restored.

I would expect them to provide typical surge protection, but that's it.

Cheap? I'll have you know...I paid almost $200 for this thing back in 2016! 😛
(and yes, I think the batteries are shot...and due for replacement.)

As much as I'd LIKE to buy that cheapo POS Firman tri-fuel generator from Costco...I think I'm gonna keep shopping for a decent inverter generator.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Cheap? I'll have you know...I paid almost $200 for this thing back in 2016! 😛
(and yes, I think the batteries are shot...and due for replacement.)

As much as I'd LIKE to buy that cheapo POS Firman tri-fuel generator from Costco...I think I'm gonna keep shopping for a decent inverter generator.

I don't lose power often enough to justify the cost of too much. Years back, I used a 3500 Coleman generator to back feed my panel. I just killed the main and used an outside receptacle with a piece of 12-2 Romex to do the job. Wasn't safe by most standards, but worked good enough to operate small power tools, lights, and a TV for a day.

 

[BoomerD]

I don't lose power often enough to justify the cost of too much. Years back, I used a 3500 Coleman generator to back feed my panel. I just killed the main and used an outside receptacle with a piece of 12-2 Romex to do the job. Wasn't safe by most standards, but worked good enough to operate small power tools, lights, and a TV for a day.

We're in the midst of a "bomb cyclone" mixed with an "atmospheric river." :roll: We lost power today for about 5 hours. Rainy as hell, temps in the 40s and low 50's...and windy as hell.
I spent 7 years working for an electric utility...and we had a couple of linemen get electrocuted (not fatally) due to homeowners wiring generators directly into their panels...and "forgetting" to kill the mains.
It's illegal to do.
We're having a pellet stove installed...hopefully in November...and need a generator to run that as well as the fridge and maybe the TV/Dish box, etc. We usually have 3-4 power outages every year. So far, (knock on wood) none have been longer than about 12 hours, but about 10 years ago, a bad storm took the power out for several days during the winter. Not something I really want to endure.

 

[Scarpozzi]

We're in the midst of a "bomb cyclone" mixed with an "atmospheric river." :roll: We lost power today for about 5 hours. Rainy as hell, temps in the 40s and low 50's...and windy as hell.
I spent 7 years working for an electric utility...and we had a couple of linemen get electrocuted (not fatally) due to homeowners wiring generators directly into their panels...and "forgetting" to kill the mains.
It's illegal to do.
We're having a pellet stove installed...hopefully in November...and need a generator to run that as well as the fridge and maybe the TV/Dish box, etc. We usually have 3-4 power outages every year. So far, (knock on wood) none have been longer than about 12 hours, but about 10 years ago, a bad storm took the power out for several days during the winter. Not something I really want to endure.

It's not any different than what a transfer switch does. If the homeowners don't kill their breakers, that's pretty stupid. That put their generators at risk for a meltdown too.

 

[lxskllr]

I have this one...

WEN 56225i Super Quiet 2250-Watt Portable Inverter Generator with Fuel Shut-Off

EPA III Compliant 79.7cc 4-Stroke OHV engine produces 2250 surge watts and 1800 rated watts Extremely quiet 53 dB operation comparable to the sound of a normal conversation according to the US Department of Health and Human Services Fuel shutoff maximizes the generator’s lifespan by using up the...

wenproducts.com

It was recommended to me by someone else. I haven't used it aside from checking for operation, but it starts easy and runs quietly. I like it cause it's easily human portable. I got it on sale for $385 direct from wen. Maybe it'll go on sale again? I don't think the price is bad at full price though.

 

[sdifox]

Only double inverter will deal with harmonic distortion. Most power consitioners work on surge/browout and efi/emi.

 

[K1052]

I have this one...

WEN 56225i Super Quiet 2250-Watt Portable Inverter Generator with Fuel Shut-Off

EPA III Compliant 79.7cc 4-Stroke OHV engine produces 2250 surge watts and 1800 rated watts Extremely quiet 53 dB operation comparable to the sound of a normal conversation according to the US Department of Health and Human Services Fuel shutoff maximizes the generator’s lifespan by using up the...

wenproducts.com

It was recommended to me by someone else. I haven't used it aside from checking for operation, but it starts easy and runs quietly. I like it cause it's easily human portable. I got it on sale for $385 direct from wen. Maybe it'll go on sale again? I don't think the price is bad at full price though.

I got one of these after the winter situation here in TX. Surprisingly quiet and efficient for the price (400 on Amazon at the time).

 

[BoomerD]

Yeah, I can find those a bit cheaper than the MSRP. I've never been too impressed with the build quality of anything sold under the Wen brand though...

 

[skull]

It's not any different than what a transfer switch does. If the homeowners don't kill their breakers, that's pretty stupid. That put their generators at risk for a meltdown too.

A transfer switch makes sure its one or the other and you can't back feed the utility. Stupid is risking it and putting linesmans lives in danger but sure enough dumbasses like you do it and get people hurt.

I picked up a Honda EU2000i on craigslist for $300 quite a few years back, got super lucky even back then they were going for $600 used. As far as I know the honda inverter models are still the greatest on the market and what all the other inverter generator makers try to copy.

 

[Hans Gruber]

A transfer switch makes sure its one or the other and you can't back feed the utility. Stupid is risking it and putting linesmans lives in danger but sure enough dumbasses like you do it and get people hurt.

I picked up a Honda EU2000i on craigslist for $300 quite a few years back, got super lucky even back then they were going for $600 used. As far as I know the honda inverter models are still the greatest on the market and what all the other inverter generator makers try to copy.

Good find, odds are you bought a hot item that was jacked from the original owners and flipped on craigslist.

 

[BoomerD]

A transfer switch makes sure its one or the other and you can't back feed the utility. Stupid is risking it and putting linesmans lives in danger but sure enough dumbasses like you do it and get people hurt.

I picked up a Honda EU2000i on craigslist for $300 quite a few years back, got super lucky even back then they were going for $600 used. As far as I know the honda inverter models are still the greatest on the market and what all the other inverter generator makers try to copy.

I'd LOVE to have the appropriate sized Honda...but that would cost me a shit-ton...way more than I can justify for the occasional power outage. (average 2-3 per year, usually less than 6-8 hours.)
a 3000 watt Honda inverter generator runs around $2200, a 7000 watt inverter unit $4500+.
They ARE the best and quietest...but that comes with a high price.

 

[deadlyapp]

I have a friend with the Firman and he's had no issues running electronics on it. I picked up the generac unit from Costco but have only run it to test it so far, no outages up to this point, so I can't say how it will impact my electronics. I will definitely be limiting what electronics I leave plugged into outlets that are switched to the generator however.

 

[BoomerD]

I have a friend with the Firman and he's had no issues running electronics on it. I picked up the generac unit from Costco but have only run it to test it so far, no outages up to this point, so I can't say how it will impact my electronics. I will definitely be limiting what electronics I leave plugged into outlets that are switched to the generator however.

Reading various generator sites, the Firman advertises 11-15% THD, but in testing, it runs closer to 25%. I could probably get away with it for a few hours...but I'd rather not.

 

[deadlyapp]

Reading various generator sites, the Firman advertises 11-15% THD, but in testing, it runs closer to 25%. I could probably get away with it for a few hours...but I'd rather not.

Yeah, also depends a lot on how much load you are putting on it.

The Generac I have advertises <5% THD but I suspect that is no load. I can't find anyone testing the actual THD on it.

 

[BoomerD]

Yeah, also depends a lot on how much load you are putting on it.

The Generac I have advertises <5% THD but I suspect that is no load. I can't find anyone testing the actual THD on it.

Pretty much the same can be said for noise ratings. Apparently there's no simple standard used across the industry, co the manufacturers all fudge things..."63 decibels at 25% load from 23 feet when the wind is blowing in a favorable direction and the user is nearly deaf."

 

[jmagg]

We use a Generac GP6500.
Starts easy but super loud. I keep it near the door in a detached garage, with a long lead to the transfer switch outlet. I also put the pickup in front of it for the sake of my neighbors fwiw.

 

[BoomerD]

We use a Generac GP6500.
Starts easy but super loud. I keep it near the door in a detached garage, with a long lead to the transfer switch outlet. I also put the pickup in front of it for the sake of my neighbors fwiw.

I looked at one of those the other day at the local Ace Hardware store. While I was standing there doing some research, another customer came over, rolled it out the door and they loaded it in his truck. (he had bought it while I was standing there...and of course, it was the last one)
I don't really mind though...with a THD rating of <20%, that makes it questionable for sensitive electronics like TV's, PC's, etc.

 

[jmagg]

I looked at one of those the other day at the local Ace Hardware store. While I was standing there doing some research, another customer came over, rolled it out the door and they loaded it in his truck. (he had bought it while I was standing there...and of course, it was the last one)
I don't really mind though...with a THD rating of <20%, that makes it questionable for sensitive electronics like TV's, PC's, etc.

I agonized on the THD, noise, and location for a good while. The large Honda inverter is over 4 grand in this area, as compared to 900 for the Generac. I finally caved, against my better interests, and grabbed the Generac, with the reasoning that if I'm going to go for the 4 grand+, I may as well get the piped in whole house gen for a couple grand more. A reasonable gamble I think.

 

[BoomerD]

I agonized on the THD, noise, and location for a good while. The large Honda inverter is over 4 grand in this area, as compared to 900 for the Generac. I finally caved, against my better interests, and grabbed the Generac, with the reasoning that if I'm going to go for the 4 grand+, I may as well get the piped in whole house gen for a couple grand more. A reasonable gamble I think.

yeah...price is the only reason I don't jump on a 7,000 watt Honda inverter. I just can't justify the cost...even though it's arguably the best in the industry...and possibly the quietest in its class.

 

[olds]

yeah...price is the only reason I don't jump on a 7,000 watt Honda inverter. I just can't justify the cost...even though it's arguably the best in the industry...and possibly the quietest in its class.

Buy once, cry once...

 

[BoomerD]

Buy once, cry once...

Around $5500 for a 7kW Honda. If I needed it for work, or more than a few hours at a time, 2-3 times a year, then maybe.

 

[Crotulus]

Recently purchased this dual fuel inverter generator https://www.homedepot.com/p/Champio...-with-Ultra-Quiet-Technology-200994/316409966 and wall pass through kit https://www.homedepot.com/p/Relianc...erator-Through-the-Wall-Kit-WKPBN30/307438017

Like using propane as its easier to store and cycling through a couple tanks means there is always some on hand for the grill. Haven't really had a chance to put the system through it's paces but testing with the refrigerator went well. Apparently power outages end once you get somewhat prepared for them 😉 Really just needed something to run the fridge and keep things charged.

 

[BoomerD]

Recently purchased this dual fuel inverter generator https://www.homedepot.com/p/Champio...-with-Ultra-Quiet-Technology-200994/316409966 and wall pass through kit https://www.homedepot.com/p/Relianc...erator-Through-the-Wall-Kit-WKPBN30/307438017

Like using propane as its easier to store and cycling through a couple tanks means there is always some on hand for the grill. Haven't really had a chance to put the system through it's paces but testing with the refrigerator went well. Apparently power outages end once you get somewhat prepared for them 😉 Really just needed something to run the fridge and keep things charged.

That's one of the Champion models I've been trying to find without paying some kind of "premium" price. The pass-through is also what I'll PROBABLY do since the house is all electric...including range, water heater, and Cadet wall heaters. It would require AT LEAST a 24kW generator to provide whole house power.