Porsche accuses Nissan of cheating at Nurburgring

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Kirby

Lifer
Apr 10, 2006
12,028
2
0
Originally posted by: Arkaign
To be fair, this is mainly the fault of that 'engineer' at Porsche. Probably some hot-head. Still bad form of the company to let this debacle play out so publicly. Super egg-on-face for Porsche. :(

Agreed. Although I'd still take a 911 over a GT-R. :p
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Originally posted by: nkgreen
Originally posted by: Arkaign
To be fair, this is mainly the fault of that 'engineer' at Porsche. Probably some hot-head. Still bad form of the company to let this debacle play out so publicly. Super egg-on-face for Porsche. :(

Agreed. Although I'd still take a 911 over a GT-R. :p

That'd be a tough one for me :) I've been a big fan of Porsche since I was young and blown away by the 959, which is still a milestone in supercar history with all the technology they stuffed into it waaay back in the bleep-bleep 1980s.

I'd definitely take a GT1 > * hehehe.

I really like the 911T and GT2/GT3/RS.

For the $$$, even at $100k, it's hard to pass on the GT-R or ZR1.
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
7,357
20
81
Originally posted by: lurk3r
Originally posted by: Pariah
Originally posted by: lurk3r
Originally posted by: Pariah
Being the price/performance leader becomes a considerably easier task when your vehicles are intentionally being sold at a loss while producing suspiciously inconsistent performance results. Regardless of the engineers, Porsche management is most likely happier being the most profitable major auto manufacturer on the planet as opposed to the price performance leader.

Wow, even more FUD posted just to inflame, wonder how many people the troll catches this time

Excellent well thought out reply. And which part exactly was fud? Or is that just your default answer when you know you have nothing to dispute the facts?

Pretty much the whole thing, but go ahead and actually show a source that proves your statement or its FUD, just like every single post you've made here

Nissan GT-R Spec-V may debut in Paris and go on sale by December

"Apparently Nissan has also admitted that the $70,000 GT-R is currently a loss-leader. As the company rolls out more cars on the same platform, like an Infiniti version in a year or so, the GT-R's balance sheet will begin to show profit."

Porsche

"The company has been highly successful in recent times, and indeed claims to be the most profitable car company in the world (in terms of profit margin per unit sold, its absolute profits would be dwarfed by Toyota) ."

I don't just make stuff like some of you here, nor do I waste other people's time making posts that do nothing but accuse others of lying. If you have nothing constructive to add to the thread, don't waste everyone's time here posting.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Originally posted by: Pariah
I don't just make stuff like some of you here, nor do I waste other people's time making posts that do nothing but accuse others of lying. If you have nothing constructive to add to the thread, don't waste everyone's time here posting.

??

The whole point of your thread was to post how Porsche accused Nissan of cheating for their 7:29 ring time.

People understandably reacted to that news, as the overwhelming body of evidence (the numerous reviews, both of sample cars and off-the-dealer units) supported the probability of the 7:29 time being legit.

You were the one in this thread casting negative aspersions upon Nissan, even bringing up such irrelevant stuff as inaccurate odometers (ALL manufacturers have problems here and there, and the larger the mfg, the more problems there will be, it's just a fact of life. Toyota, GM, FoMoCo, Honda, etc, etc will all have numerous TSB's and/or recalls on an annual basis).

Now that Nissan has fired back, and evidence mounts further that they indeed used a stock vehicle with stock tires for their time, you really have nothing to say other than some blather about profitability and then vague attacks on other posters?

This thread, like Porsche's ill-chosen claims, is ridiculous and unnecessary self-pwnage.
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
7,357
20
81
Arkaign, you're easily the biggest Nissan fanboy on this board. It's not even close. Running a search for posts by you about how awesome every Nissan is would probably overload Anand's servers from all the results. Nothing you have to say on anything Nissan related is of any interest to me.

And for the record, I hate Porsche. Their cars are ugly, and all look the same, they sound terrible to me and I would never consider buying one. That said, I respect who they are as a company and what they have accomplished. I can't say the same for Nissan.
 

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
4
0
Originally posted by: Pariah
Arkaign, you're easily the biggest Nissan fanboy on this board. It's not even close. Running a search for posts by you about how awesome every Nissan is would probably overload Anand's servers from all the results. Nothing you have to say on anything Nissan related is of any interest to me.

And for the record, I hate Porsche. Their cars are ugly, and all look the same, they sound terrible to me and I would never consider buying one. That said, I respect who they are as a company and what they have accomplished. I can't say the same for Nissan.

Way to go :p

Arkaign has provided plenty of material that suggest quite directly that Porsche is full of shit on this one, and you resort to crying about him being a Nissan fanboy :roll:

I thought you wanted to debate Porsche's claim, but presented with someone who wants to debate it and back up his claims, you've tucked your tail between your legs and retreated to the relative safety of personal insults.

 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
Originally posted by: Pariah
Arkaign, you're easily the biggest Nissan fanboy on this board. It's not even close. Running a search for posts by you about how awesome every Nissan is would probably overload Anand's servers from all the results. Nothing you have to say on anything Nissan related is of any interest to me.

And for the record, I hate Porsche. Their cars are ugly, and all look the same, they sound terrible to me and I would never consider buying one. That said, I respect who they are as a company and what they have accomplished. I can't say the same for Nissan.

If you know your posters as well as you claim you'd know he's more likely to be a BMW fanboy, but in reality he's pretty even handed.

 

lurk3r

Senior member
Oct 26, 2007
981
0
0
Originally posted by: Pariah
Originally posted by: lurk3r
Originally posted by: Pariah
Originally posted by: lurk3r
Originally posted by: Pariah
Being the price/performance leader becomes a considerably easier task when your vehicles are intentionally being sold at a loss while producing suspiciously inconsistent performance results. Regardless of the engineers, Porsche management is most likely happier being the most profitable major auto manufacturer on the planet as opposed to the price performance leader.

Wow, even more FUD posted just to inflame, wonder how many people the troll catches this time

Excellent well thought out reply. And which part exactly was fud? Or is that just your default answer when you know you have nothing to dispute the facts?

Pretty much the whole thing, but go ahead and actually show a source that proves your statement or its FUD, just like every single post you've made here

Nissan GT-R Spec-V may debut in Paris and go on sale by December

"Apparently Nissan has also admitted that the $70,000 GT-R is currently a loss-leader. As the company rolls out more cars on the same platform, like an Infiniti version in a year or so, the GT-R's balance sheet will begin to show profit."

Porsche

"The company has been highly successful in recent times, and indeed claims to be the most profitable car company in the world (in terms of profit margin per unit sold, its absolute profits would be dwarfed by Toyota) ."

I don't just make stuff like some of you here, nor do I waste other people's time making posts that do nothing but accuse others of lying. If you have nothing constructive to add to the thread, don't waste everyone's time here posting.


No, following the link to the original article you find that it is a release announcment for the Spec-V version of the car, with this statement from Nissan:

Nissan execs, meanwhile, have confirmed that the GT-R is an unprofitable model but the introduction of vehicles based on the same platform will help change that. In addition to the Spec-V, the platform is expected to yield a model for Infiniti due for release in less than a year.

The idiot that sumarized the artilce made unfounded assumptions, then the you made assumptions and all of a sudden "ZOMG Nissan is giving away cars at $1,000,000 under what it costs to make them and the test cars have 99999 more HP than any production cars do." Epic Fail.

unprofitable <> loss leader

The statement likely had more to do with the dollar loosing to the yen than any intensional pricing strategy by Nissan. (notice how when I make my assumption its clear, not presented as facts)

 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
Originally posted by: Pariah
Arkaign, you're easily the biggest Nissan fanboy on this board. It's not even close. Running a search for posts by you about how awesome every Nissan is would probably overload Anand's servers from all the results. Nothing you have to say on anything Nissan related is of any interest to me.

And for the record, I hate Porsche. Their cars are ugly, and all look the same, they sound terrible to me and I would never consider buying one. That said, I respect who they are as a company and what they have accomplished. I can't say the same for Nissan.

If you know your posters as well as you claim you'd know he's more likely to be a BMW fanboy, but in reality he's pretty even handed.

Thanks for the backup DBZ.

I am certainly *not* a Nissan fanboy. I'm pretty model/configuration specific with my pro/con opinions on vehicles. Do a search on 350Z threads and you'll see me slamming Nissan for what amounts to almost a disgrace to the Z-car legacy. I'm hopeful on the 370Z, even though it still has the blob+angles styling fusion thing that never has looked very good to me.

I did like the look of the new Maxima in person, though it really should be AWD or RWD by this point, though I suppose they don't want to step on Infiniti's feet with that.

The previous Maxima made no sense at all to me.

The Altima I'm moderately impressed with, but think the 2.5 is underpowered as a match to it, 175hp isn't the best match for a 3100lb vehicle (and that's the lighter coupe version), other than perhaps with the 5-speed version.

The VQ is a solid motor, though a bit thirsty.

The current Sentra is not a very viable competitor, and it looks styled by the Borg.

The lack of a proper 'SX' vehicle to replace the 240SX is troublesome.

The Titan has the fuel economy of an aircraft carrier, and the interior is pretty cheap.

So, my general feeling on Nissan ranges from outright dislike to moderate interest for their regular models, and only a fool would discount the performance capability of the GT-R, even though it's looks are decidedly odd (the R8 looks much cooler).

And why the Porsche hate? I can't really think of any auto company I *hate*, perhaps other than Chrysler/Dodge for screwing me over on a Neon that I bought new that died very young after a laundry list of stupid failures. Porsche is an icon in auto performance history, hell James Dean was a Porsche guy.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
370Z looks promising, but I think the future is in Turbo I4s, and Nissan needs to get an SR20DE(T) successor going soon.
GT-R is a beast. Porsche needs to stop whining and take it like men.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,041
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Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
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so you're saying all those independent, respected publications tested the 911T and GTR back to back and determined that the GT-R is faster, and now Porsche, who obviously doesn't want a lowly nissan to steal their thunder, tracks a 911 faster by 20 seconds around the ring.

something doesn't add up. if anything, they should be neck and neck, if not the nissan faster by a tad.
a porsche driver has no incentive to go around faster in a nissan. and they definitely don't have any reason to call nissan out like this. that's very classy of them :roll:

pariah, i'm still waiting.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
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Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
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so you're saying all those independent, respected publications tested the 911T and GTR back to back and determined that the GT-R is faster, and now Porsche, who obviously doesn't want a lowly nissan to steal their thunder, tracks a 911 faster by 20 seconds around the ring.

something doesn't add up. if anything, they should be neck and neck, if not the nissan faster by a tad.
a porsche driver has no incentive to go around faster in a nissan. and they definitely don't have any reason to call nissan out like this. that's very classy of them :roll:

pariah, i'm still waiting.

Pariah hasn't directly addressed the performance question as of yet, AFAIK. Certainly not in a manner that reflects any data or testing that refutes or casts doubts upon the 'cheating' accusation angle.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Last I checked the burden is on those making the accusation to prove it, not on the accused to disprove it. All Porsche has proven is that THEY cannot do a 7:29 run in THEIR GT-R, not that Nissan's driver didn't do it in a his production car.
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
7,357
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81
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
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so you're saying all those independent, respected publications tested the 911T and GTR back to back and determined that the GT-R is faster, and now Porsche, who obviously doesn't want a lowly nissan to steal their thunder, tracks a 911 faster by 20 seconds around the ring.

something doesn't add up. if anything, they should be neck and neck, if not the nissan faster by a tad.
a porsche driver has no incentive to go around faster in a nissan. and they definitely don't have any reason to call nissan out like this. that's very classy of them :roll:

pariah, i'm still waiting.

What are you waiting for? This was addressed ages ago. It's call cherry picked press fleet cars. Do car testers check if the boost has been bumped or other not easily detectable modifications? No different than computer component companies OC'ing motherboards before they send them out for testing, or sending CPU/video cards that OC far better than a typical sample would. It's nothing new, some companies are just more subtle at doing it than Nissan apparently is.

Are you a former Enron accountant lurk3r?
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
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Originally posted by: Pariah
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
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so you're saying all those independent, respected publications tested the 911T and GTR back to back and determined that the GT-R is faster, and now Porsche, who obviously doesn't want a lowly nissan to steal their thunder, tracks a 911 faster by 20 seconds around the ring.

something doesn't add up. if anything, they should be neck and neck, if not the nissan faster by a tad.
a porsche driver has no incentive to go around faster in a nissan. and they definitely don't have any reason to call nissan out like this. that's very classy of them :roll:

pariah, i'm still waiting.

What are you waiting for? This was addressed ages ago. It's call cherry picked press fleet cars. Do car testers check if the boost has been bumped or other not easily detectable modifications? No different than computer component companies OC'ing motherboards before they send them out for testing, or sending CPU/video cards that OC far better than a typical sample would. It's nothing new, some companies are just more subtle at doing it than Nissan apparently is.

Are you a former Enron accountant lurk3r?

Ah I see, more unsubstantiated accusations without proof. I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. ZV should probably lock this as there is no one left to debate from any logical perspective.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,041
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0
Originally posted by: Pariah
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
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so you're saying all those independent, respected publications tested the 911T and GTR back to back and determined that the GT-R is faster, and now Porsche, who obviously doesn't want a lowly nissan to steal their thunder, tracks a 911 faster by 20 seconds around the ring.

something doesn't add up. if anything, they should be neck and neck, if not the nissan faster by a tad.
a porsche driver has no incentive to go around faster in a nissan. and they definitely don't have any reason to call nissan out like this. that's very classy of them :roll:

pariah, i'm still waiting.

What are you waiting for? This was addressed ages ago. It's call cherry picked press fleet cars. Do car testers check if the boost has been bumped or other not easily detectable modifications? No different than computer component companies OC'ing motherboards before they send them out for testing, or sending CPU/video cards that OC far better than a typical sample would. It's nothing new, some companies are just more subtle at doing it than Nissan apparently is.

Are you a former Enron accountant lurk3r?

i see... so they all got "cherry picked" GT-R's.
including the times where they tested with CUSTOMER owned GT-Rs.
:roll:
 

Tremulant

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2004
4,890
1
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Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: Pariah
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Top Gear
5th Gear
R&T
C&D
Autocar
EVO
Sport Auto

so you're saying all those independent, respected publications tested the 911T and GTR back to back and determined that the GT-R is faster, and now Porsche, who obviously doesn't want a lowly nissan to steal their thunder, tracks a 911 faster by 20 seconds around the ring.

something doesn't add up. if anything, they should be neck and neck, if not the nissan faster by a tad.
a porsche driver has no incentive to go around faster in a nissan. and they definitely don't have any reason to call nissan out like this. that's very classy of them :roll:

pariah, i'm still waiting.

What are you waiting for? This was addressed ages ago. It's call cherry picked press fleet cars. Do car testers check if the boost has been bumped or other not easily detectable modifications? No different than computer component companies OC'ing motherboards before they send them out for testing, or sending CPU/video cards that OC far better than a typical sample would. It's nothing new, some companies are just more subtle at doing it than Nissan apparently is.

Are you a former Enron accountant lurk3r?

i see... so they all got "cherry picked" GT-R's.
including the times where they tested with CUSTOMER owned GT-Rs.
:roll:

Well, duh!

Nissan knew that certain customers would have their cars tested, so they made sure that they got better GT-R's.

I mean, this should be common knowledge to anyone. ;)

:D
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,041
3
0
Originally posted by: Tremulant
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: Pariah
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo
Top Gear
5th Gear
R&T
C&D
Autocar
EVO
Sport Auto

so you're saying all those independent, respected publications tested the 911T and GTR back to back and determined that the GT-R is faster, and now Porsche, who obviously doesn't want a lowly nissan to steal their thunder, tracks a 911 faster by 20 seconds around the ring.

something doesn't add up. if anything, they should be neck and neck, if not the nissan faster by a tad.
a porsche driver has no incentive to go around faster in a nissan. and they definitely don't have any reason to call nissan out like this. that's very classy of them :roll:

pariah, i'm still waiting.

What are you waiting for? This was addressed ages ago. It's call cherry picked press fleet cars. Do car testers check if the boost has been bumped or other not easily detectable modifications? No different than computer component companies OC'ing motherboards before they send them out for testing, or sending CPU/video cards that OC far better than a typical sample would. It's nothing new, some companies are just more subtle at doing it than Nissan apparently is.

Are you a former Enron accountant lurk3r?

i see... so they all got "cherry picked" GT-R's.
including the times where they tested with CUSTOMER owned GT-Rs.
:roll:

Well, duh!

Nissan knew that certain customers would have their cars tested, so they made sure that they got better GT-R's.

I mean, this should be common knowledge to anyone. ;)

:D

Pariah, i'm still waiting.