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Pope: Worship God not technology

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Aug 1, 2006
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I disagree.

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JD50
We really needed another religion bashing thread.

You mean a thread where we take a political statement and point out the hypocrisy? Isn't that what this forum is for?

Oh, you mean with such intelligent comments like

"Hear, hear! The Pope can kiss my hairy behind. Well, he probably would, so, not really."

and

"Have you made ONE intelligent/cohesive post ever?"

You cannot filter the important from the unimportant here? Do the unimportant comments negate the real comments? Did you realize you failed to address the hypocrisy pointed out in this thread yet again?

I don't care about "the hypocrisy pointed out in this thread", I have addressed it before in countless other threads. Like I said, we really need another religion bashing thread.

How about I go start 10 different threads about the hypocrisy of Democrats voting for the war in Iraq, but now backpeddaling. Or how about the numerous statements of Democrats, including Bill Clinton, talking about WMDs in Iraq. I'm sure you and all your religion hating buddies will be there debating the points and pointing out the hypocrisy of the Dems. I'm sure none of you would say anything about how its been talked about to death on this forum, nope, you'll be debating the points right?

You don't have to look any further than the people in the thread to see the hypocrisy.

You could create threads about democrats if you'd like. I am not democrat, and they are often corrupt/wrong... You think I would deny truths when they are pointed out? Unlike you, I am capable of being critical of everything. I hate religion because I realize that the pope and the church are often(not all the time) hypocritical? Ok... good analysis... are you a psychiatrist!?

If the pope stopped making ridiculous statements, and if the super-religious people in this country stopped pushing their morals on everyone else, I assure you, you will see a sharp decline in commenting posts here.

Hating religion because you think that the pope is hypocritical is pretty silly. There is a huge difference between the Catholic church and other christians. I was raised Catholic, now I go to a non denominational christian church because I don't agree with Catholocism, so obviously I am critical of the Catholic church. But I guess you made up your mind about me before you even knew where I stood on the issue, just because I was tired of seeing religion bashing threads. Kind of like how you make up your mind on everyone because of what part of the country they are from.

Although you may think that its the "super-religious" pushing their morals and that they are in the minority, you are obviously wrong. The majority of the country is religious, and agrees with these morals. The people against religion are in the super minority in this country, no matter what you may think

Anyways, hating all religion because you don't like the Catholic church is dumb, thats like me saying that I hate all black people because most inner cities are crime ridden sh1tholes. Both arguments sound ridiculous.

I think you misread my post. Please read again. I had a "?" after my statement... This is meant to ask if this is what you think I think. Read-

"I hate religion because I realize that the pope and the church are often(not all the time) hypocritical? Ok... good analysis... are you a psychiatrist!?"

"Although you may think that its the "super-religious" pushing their morals and that they are in the minority, you are obviously wrong."

You have the right to think my opinion is wrong. The super religious have been in control for the last 6 years and they no longer hold majority power in either house. So much for your "everyone is religious so they agree with the super-religious" theory. Anti-abortion crusaders, anti- after morning pill crusaders, etc are all forcing their view of morals on everyone and they are NOT the majority, despite what you may think.

"Kind of like how you make up your mind on everyone because of what part of the country they are from."

Nope. One could actually know where someone else is from and take that into account without..gasp...discounting them entirely! I know I know.. it is shocking!

"But I guess you made up your mind about me before you even knew where I stood on the issue"

You mean like how you did by caling me anti-religious and a democrat?
I did not say "everyone is religious so they agree with the super religious". What I meant was that what you see as morals of the "super religious" are just the regular morals of most Americans. Most Americans are religious, and most Americans hold these morals. This last election did not have anything to do with religion or morals, it had everything to do with the ineptly run war in Iraq, at least thats how it seems to me.

You're right, I thought you were saying that you hate religion, it didn't seem like a question to me.

Thanks about the second point.

For the first point, you are wrong... Abortion and morning after pills are supported by the majority... just not the super religious... the ones that have blocked the morning after pills for so long etc.

Remember, the majority of the super-religious were supportive of:

Slavery
Wanting women to stay home-anti-women's rights
Pro-segregation
Anti-civil rights

Saying that the majority supports something in no way makes it right.
I look forward to our resident statesman's measured reply....
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
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If the pope cares so much for the poor maybe he should get a real job and start donating his time and money/
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
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Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
DealMonkey--My point? The Catholic Church has a lot of nerve pointing their fingers down at the rest of us. What with the sexual abuse scandals plaguing them. Not to mention the fact that the Pope mentions the suffering of the world's masses about a dozen times, and yet the Vatican sits on a horde of wealth that they could use to ease that suffering. The Pope should heed his own advice and stop worshipping their vast funds and investments and get out there and help the people that really need help.
okay lets se you Catholic? ok...thought not!
200 years from now if you wer to be alive you would still be draging the past through the mud....

I have yet to figure out what your point is....hmmm
Other than to spew dribble about things you have no knowledge about....

This statement proves what you say is misinformed conjecture--yet the Vatican sits on a horde of wealth that they could use to ease that suffering.

Merry Christmas!!

Have you made ONE intelligent/cohesive post ever?
at least 3,000 more intelligent posts than you have....

I know you think so. That is the sad part. All you do is jump on a post you agree with and circle jerk with it with terrible spelling/grammar/lack of logic. With stupid "lol"s etc.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
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Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
My point? The Catholic Church has a lot of nerve pointing their fingers down at the rest of us. What with the sexual abuse scandals plaguing them.
Ah, nothing like the pre-emptive red herring to start off a good old anti-Catholic rant.
Those who act holier-than-thou, rarely are. Face it, the Catholic Church has had its share of problems over the years, yet that doesn't stop them from wagging their finger at the rest of us via the Pope's 'grand' proclamations. In other words CW, his words are grand but his actions are small. Get it?

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Not to mention the fact that the Pope mentions the suffering of the world's masses about a dozen times, and yet the Vatican sits on a horde of wealth that they could use to ease that suffering. The Pope should heed his own advice and stop worshipping their vast funds and investments and get out there and help the people that really need help.
And you missed the point entirely. Do you really think that if the Vatican made a one-time donation of a few billion dollars that it could really make any lasting impact on global poverty? I doubt it. Besides, the Vatican is nearly bankrupt, regardless of what Dan Brown might tell you. They have a lot of real estate, but the cash isn't there so much anymore. The pope is suggesting that people utilize their resources and newer technologies to help the poor, not sell their homes and throw money at the problem. We could probably grow enough food in the US to feed everyone on the planet. However, the mechanism for transporting this food to the people is lacking. The application of recent innovations could, in my somewhat informed opinion, probably solve this problem.

And surprise, surprise - kage69 enters with another red herring! You guys fail to realize that resorting to anti-Catholic rhetoric in lieu of any actual discussions does nothing for the advancement of your positions. Instead, you're simply letting the rest of us know that you hate Catholicism. We already knew that.
And you missed my point entirely. I think the Catholic Church should put their money where there mouths are. Sell everything, live as paupers, conduct services in an open field and give every single cent to help those that are suffering in this world. Just like most large organized religions, they've lost their way and lost touch with what their religion is all about. Perhaps they should ask themselves if Jesus would horde wealth while issuing edicts to the rest of the world while sitting on high.

You know, somehow I don't think so.
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
My point? The Catholic Church has a lot of nerve pointing their fingers down at the rest of us. What with the sexual abuse scandals plaguing them. Not to mention the fact that the Pope mentions the suffering of the world's masses about a dozen times, and yet the Vatican sits on a horde of wealth that they could use to ease that suffering. The Pope should heed his own advice and stop worshipping their vast funds and investments and get out there and help the people that really need help.

And now without further ado, da popa!

Pope: Worship God not technology

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) -- Pope Benedict said in his Christmas message on Monday that mankind, which has reached other planets and worships technology, cannot live without God or turn its back on the hungry.


It was shameful that in "this age of plenty and unbridled consumerism" many remained deaf to the "heart-rending cry" of those dying of hunger, thirst, disease, poverty, war and terrorism.

In his "Urbi et Orbi" (to the city and the world) message, he made a heartfelt appeal for peace and justice in the Middle East, an end to the "brutal violence" in Iraq and a solution to fratricidal conflicts in Darfur and other parts of Africa.

"Does a 'Saviour' still have any value and meaning for the men and women of the third millennium?" he asked in his address to tens of thousands of people in a sunny St. Peter's Square.

"Is a 'Saviour' still needed by a humanity which has reached the moon and Mars and is prepared to conquer the universe; for a humanity which knows no limits in its pursuit of nature's secrets and which has succeeded even in deciphering the marvelous codes of the human genome?"

"Is a Saviour needed by a humanity which has invented interactive communication, which navigates in the virtual ocean of the Internet and, thanks to the most advanced modern communications technologies, has now made the Earth, our great common home, a global village?"

The Pope, marking the second Christmas season of his pontificate, said that while 21st century man appeared to be a master of his own destiny, "perhaps he needs a saviour all the more" because much of humanity still suffered.

"People continue to die of hunger and thirst, disease and poverty, in this age of plenty and of unbridled consumerism," he said from the central balcony of Christendom's largest church.

"Some people remain enslaved, exploited and stripped of their dignity; others are victims of racial and religious hatred, hampered by intolerance and discrimination, and by political interference and physical or moral coercion with regard to the free profession of their faith," he said.

"Others see their own bodies and those of their dear ones, particularly their children, maimed by weaponry, by terrorism and by all sorts of violence, at a time when everyone invokes and acclaims progress, solidarity and peace for all," he said.

In his address, the Pope also made a reference to the controversial case of Piergiorgio Welby, a paralyzed Italian man who was denied a Catholic service because he had asked to die.

"What are we to think of those who choose death in the belief that they are celebrating life?" he said.

Welby, an advocate of euthanasia, died on Wednesday after a doctor gave him sedatives and detached a respirator that had kept the victim of advanced muscular dystrophy alive for years.

In his midnight mass for some 10,000 people in St. Peter's Basilica earlier on Monday, he said the image of the baby Jesus in a manger should remind everyone of the plight of poor, abused and neglected children the world over.

At that mass a member of the congregation read a prayer in Arabic asking God to encourage "a spirit of dialogue, mutual understanding and collaboration" among followers of the three great monotheistic religions -- Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

You are naive and a fool. I am an athiest and can see this. Did you read his statement? If you want to hide your head in the sand and point fingers about going "fix your problem before I fix mine nah nah da nah nah" than go ahead. He makes a valid point, a very valid point. Progress causes death. Not saying that progress is bad, or should be stopped, not at all. You need to learn how to deal with your new power before you use it.

There are many issues that need to be fixed in the world. The world of science asked the church to butt out a long time ago, and even now does not want them involved. So what will the world of science do? Nothing. Ethics and morals are not taught with the bottom line.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
181
106
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
My point? The Catholic Church has a lot of nerve pointing their fingers down at the rest of us. What with the sexual abuse scandals plaguing them. Not to mention the fact that the Pope mentions the suffering of the world's masses about a dozen times, and yet the Vatican sits on a horde of wealth that they could use to ease that suffering. The Pope should heed his own advice and stop worshipping their vast funds and investments and get out there and help the people that really need help.

And now without further ado, da popa!

Pope: Worship God not technology

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) -- Pope Benedict said in his Christmas message on Monday that mankind, which has reached other planets and worships technology, cannot live without God or turn its back on the hungry.


It was shameful that in "this age of plenty and unbridled consumerism" many remained deaf to the "heart-rending cry" of those dying of hunger, thirst, disease, poverty, war and terrorism.

In his "Urbi et Orbi" (to the city and the world) message, he made a heartfelt appeal for peace and justice in the Middle East, an end to the "brutal violence" in Iraq and a solution to fratricidal conflicts in Darfur and other parts of Africa.

"Does a 'Saviour' still have any value and meaning for the men and women of the third millennium?" he asked in his address to tens of thousands of people in a sunny St. Peter's Square.

"Is a 'Saviour' still needed by a humanity which has reached the moon and Mars and is prepared to conquer the universe; for a humanity which knows no limits in its pursuit of nature's secrets and which has succeeded even in deciphering the marvelous codes of the human genome?"

"Is a Saviour needed by a humanity which has invented interactive communication, which navigates in the virtual ocean of the Internet and, thanks to the most advanced modern communications technologies, has now made the Earth, our great common home, a global village?"

The Pope, marking the second Christmas season of his pontificate, said that while 21st century man appeared to be a master of his own destiny, "perhaps he needs a saviour all the more" because much of humanity still suffered.

"People continue to die of hunger and thirst, disease and poverty, in this age of plenty and of unbridled consumerism," he said from the central balcony of Christendom's largest church.

"Some people remain enslaved, exploited and stripped of their dignity; others are victims of racial and religious hatred, hampered by intolerance and discrimination, and by political interference and physical or moral coercion with regard to the free profession of their faith," he said.

"Others see their own bodies and those of their dear ones, particularly their children, maimed by weaponry, by terrorism and by all sorts of violence, at a time when everyone invokes and acclaims progress, solidarity and peace for all," he said.

In his address, the Pope also made a reference to the controversial case of Piergiorgio Welby, a paralyzed Italian man who was denied a Catholic service because he had asked to die.

"What are we to think of those who choose death in the belief that they are celebrating life?" he said.

Welby, an advocate of euthanasia, died on Wednesday after a doctor gave him sedatives and detached a respirator that had kept the victim of advanced muscular dystrophy alive for years.

In his midnight mass for some 10,000 people in St. Peter's Basilica earlier on Monday, he said the image of the baby Jesus in a manger should remind everyone of the plight of poor, abused and neglected children the world over.

At that mass a member of the congregation read a prayer in Arabic asking God to encourage "a spirit of dialogue, mutual understanding and collaboration" among followers of the three great monotheistic religions -- Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
Bypass the general human brain dysfunction and worship nothing.
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
My point? The Catholic Church has a lot of nerve pointing their fingers down at the rest of us. What with the sexual abuse scandals plaguing them. Not to mention the fact that the Pope mentions the suffering of the world's masses about a dozen times, and yet the Vatican sits on a horde of wealth that they could use to ease that suffering. The Pope should heed his own advice and stop worshipping their vast funds and investments and get out there and help the people that really need help.

And now without further ado, da popa!

*************************************************************************
good troll thread I guess?
Although I am not catholic, it is not real difficult to research the fact that indeed Catholics and the catholic church do much to ease suffering in the world.
Here is one link.
http://www.catholiccharitiesinfo.org/news/statistics.htm
That took about 30 seconds to google up, if I wanted to get serious about it, I could post many more examples.
But why bother since op wasn't interested in facts anyway?:frown:
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
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What will you have me do? The pope is (as usual) full of ****** and I'm just supposed to take it? I don't think so.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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Originally posted by: shadow9d9
2 valid points that you blindly dismiss because you are a follower unwilling to be critical of the hypocritical nature of the church.
Blindly dismissed valid points? No - I clearly acknowledged them, then dismissed them as irrelevant to THIS topic. You only wage this argument because you cannot add anything to the discussion.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Those who act holier-than-thou, rarely are. Face it, the Catholic Church has had its share of problems over the years, yet that doesn't stop them from wagging their finger at the rest of us via the Pope's 'grand' proclamations. In other words CW, his words are grand but his actions are small. Get it?
So what? Do you agree or disagree with what he said? Your entire post is simply an ad hominem targeted at the pope and his followers. Why can't you comment on the ideas that he raised rather than attacking him and his followers? That's all I'm asking.
And you missed my point entirely. I think the Catholic Church should put their money where there mouths are. Sell everything, live as paupers, conduct services in an open field and give every single cent to help those that are suffering in this world. Just like most large organized religions, they've lost their way and lost touch with what their religion is all about. Perhaps they should ask themselves if Jesus would horde wealth while issuing edicts to the rest of the world while sitting on high.

You know, somehow I don't think so.
Catholic priests in the US get paid $14k a year. Are they really hoarding wealth? I don't think so. You neglected the part of my post where I noted that the Vatican is nearly bankrupt. You also neglected my question of whether the Church could really achieve any long-term gains by selling everything it has and giving it to the poor. I submit that this would make no difference in the long run.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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Originally posted by: RichardE
You are naive and a fool. I am an athiest and can see this. Did you read his statement? If you want to hide your head in the sand and point fingers about going "fix your problem before I fix mine nah nah da nah nah" than go ahead. He makes a valid point, a very valid point. Progress causes death. Not saying that progress is bad, or should be stopped, not at all. You need to learn how to deal with your new power before you use it.

There are many issues that need to be fixed in the world. The world of science asked the church to butt out a long time ago, and even now does not want them involved. So what will the world of science do? Nothing. Ethics and morals are not taught with the bottom line.
I just got done reading Dan Brown's 'Angels & Demons' and I thought this book was a pretty good commentary on this subject. The overwhelming trend in research is to perform research in the absence of any ethical principles simply for the sake of reaching the next big breakthrough. In many cases, the cure is worse than the disease.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
1
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Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
2 valid points that you blindly dismiss because you are a follower unwilling to be critical of the hypocritical nature of the church.
Blindly dismissed valid points? No - I clearly acknowledged them, then dismissed them as irrelevant to THIS topic. You only wage this argument because you cannot add anything to the discussion.
The hypocritical nature of the church is the entire point of this thread... yet it is irrelevant? Gotcha... You are right, certainly not a blind follower.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
The hypocritical nature of the church is the entire point of this thread... yet it is irrelevant? Gotcha... You are right, certainly not a blind follower.
Topic Title: Pope: Worship God not technology

The topic is what the pope said, not Church history. You've simply redefined the topic to allow your ridiculous inclusion of a long string of ad hominems. Not surprising, as you're blinded by your own hatred.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Those who act holier-than-thou, rarely are. Face it, the Catholic Church has had its share of problems over the years, yet that doesn't stop them from wagging their finger at the rest of us via the Pope's 'grand' proclamations. In other words CW, his words are grand but his actions are small. Get it?
So what? Do you agree or disagree with what he said? Your entire post is simply an ad hominem targeted at the pope and his followers. Why can't you comment on the ideas that he raised rather than attacking him and his followers? That's all I'm asking.
Yes, his speech makes a cogent point - that despite as far as man has come, we still have millions who are left behind and suffering throughout the world. Of course, the pope is the master of the obvious. Anyone who's paying attention could have told you that. And worshiping technology is something I sincerely doubt we have a problem with. And yet, when the pope finishes, I'm still left wondering how he can sit on high and wag his finger at the rest of us. Full circle back to my original post CW.
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
And you missed my point entirely. I think the Catholic Church should put their money where there mouths are. Sell everything, live as paupers, conduct services in an open field and give every single cent to help those that are suffering in this world. Just like most large organized religions, they've lost their way and lost touch with what their religion is all about. Perhaps they should ask themselves if Jesus would horde wealth while issuing edicts to the rest of the world while sitting on high.

You know, somehow I don't think so.
Catholic priests in the US get paid $14k a year. Are they really hoarding wealth? I don't think so. You neglected the part of my post where I noted that the Vatican is nearly bankrupt. You also neglected my question of whether the Church could really achieve any long-term gains by selling everything it has and giving it to the poor. I submit that this would make no difference in the long run.
I'm not talking about the individual priests. I'm talking about the vast wealth of the individual Archdioceses and the Vatican itself. I think all sorts of good could be done by spending all of their accumulated wealth helping more people ... you're simply placing the bar too low and making excuses again.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Yes, his speech makes a cogent point - that despite as far as man has come, we still have millions who are left behind and suffering throughout the world. Of course, the pope is the master of the obvious. Anyone who's paying attention could have told you that. And worshiping technology is something I sincerely doubt we have a problem with. And yet, when the pope finishes, I'm still left wondering how he can sit on high and wag his finger at the rest of us. Full circle back to my original post CW.
Ah, so it's simply that you misunderstand the point of the pope. The pope's job is to exhort fellow Christians (and whoever else will listen) to do what is right. Since you obviously don't understand Catholic theology, I'll leave the rest of the misconceptions for another thread.
I'm not talking about the individual priests. I'm talking about the vast wealth of the individual Archdioceses and the Vatican itself. I think all sorts of good could be done by spending all of their accumulated wealth helping more people ... you're simply placing the bar too low and making excuses again.
Yes, and universities could help a lot of people today if they liquefied their endowments and gave all of their students full scholarships. WashU's endowment is upwards of $4 billion, which would more than cover full tuition for all of their students for quite a while. However, this approach is incredibly short-sighted, as the interest that is made off of these endowments is enough to allow long-term aid that is sustainable and can have a real impact, rather than simply allowing a few material comforts for the worst-off. If the Vatican sold everything it had and gave it to the poor, I don't doubt that it would have some miniscule impact and help a few people. Instead, they dole it out over a prolonged period, thereby helping many more people. This allows them to achieve their primary goal which, again, you apparently don't grasp.
 

mAdMaLuDaWg

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2003
2,437
1
0
The Anti-Catholocism is strong in this thread. I saw this article on Digg yesterday and WAY TO TAKE THE WORDS OF THE POPE TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT.

DealMonkey, I'm taking it that you know how to use Google... why don't you do some research on the Catholic Church's charitable works to back up your claim that the Church does not practice what it preaches.

Here is a link to get you started: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_15/b3778004.htm

The Roman Catholic Church, with some 64 million members and thousands of affiliated operations, is the largest and most influential nongovernment organization in the U.S. But the Church is not a unified corporation: It is a decentralized organization with thousands of legally and financially separate entities. Its 20,000 Catholic churches raise some $7.5 billion annually.
If you want some keywords to get you started: Sister's of Charity, Catholic Charties USA, Catholic Healthcare.

Educate yourself before you post, otherwise you make yourself look like a bumbling fool.


And for those interested, here is the actual text of the speech.. I honestly wonder who the unscrupulous reporters came up with the heading: Worship God not technology.. way to take the message out of Context.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/12/...rope/EU_REL_Vatican_Christmas_Text.php

"Our Saviour is born to the world!" During the night, in our Churches, we again heard this message that, notwithstanding the passage of the centuries, remains ever new. It is the heavenly message that tells us to fear not, for "a great joy" has come "to all the people" (Lk 1:10). It is a message of hope, for it tells us that, on that night over two thousand years ago, there "was born in the city of David a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord" (Lk 2:11). The Angel of Christmas announced it then to the shepherds out on the hills of Bethlehem; today the Angel repeats it to us, to all who dwell in our world: "The Saviour is born; he is born for you! Come, come, let us adore him!".

But does a "Saviour" still have any value and meaning for the men and women of the third millennium? Is a "Saviour" still needed by a humanity which has reached the moon and Mars and is prepared to conquer the universe; for a humanity which knows no limits in its pursuit of natures secrets and which has succeeded even in deciphering the marvelous codes of the human genome? Is a Saviour needed by a humanity which has invented interactive communication, which navigates in the virtual ocean of the Internet and, thanks to the most advanced modern communications technologies, has now made the Earth, our great common home, a global village? This humanity of the 21st century appears as a sure and self-sufficient master of its own destiny, the avid proponent of uncontested triumphs.

So it would seem, yet this is not the case. People continue to die of hunger and thirst, disease and poverty, in this age of plenty and of unbridled consumerism. Some people remain enslaved, exploited and stripped of their dignity; others are victims of racial and religious hatred, hampered by intolerance and discrimination, and by political interference and physical or moral coercion with regard to the free profession of their faith. Others see their own bodies and those of their dear ones, particularly their children, maimed by weaponry, by terrorism and by all sorts of violence, at a time when everyone invokes and acclaims progress, solidarity and peace for all. And what of those who, bereft of hope, are forced to leave their homes and countries in order to find humane living conditions elsewhere? How can we help those who are misled by facile prophets of happiness, those who struggle with relationships and are incapable of accepting responsibility for their present and future, those who are trapped in the tunnel of loneliness and who often end up enslaved to alcohol or drugs? What are we to think of those who choose death in the belief that they are celebrating life?

Today in Europe

How can we not hear, from the very depths of this humanity, at once joyful and anguished, a heart-rending cry for help? It is Christmas: today "the true light that enlightens every man" (Jn 1:9) came into the world. "The word became flesh and dwelt among us" (Jn 1:14), proclaims the Evangelist John. Today, this very day, Christ comes once more "unto his own", and to those who receive him he gives "the power to become children of God"; in a word, he offers them the opportunity to see Gods glory and to share the joy of that Love which became incarnate for us in Bethlehem. Today "our Saviour is born to the world", for he knows that even today we need him. Despite humanity's many advances, man has always been the same: a freedom poised between good and evil, between life and death. It is there, in the very depths of his being, in what the Bible calls his "heart", that man always needs to be "saved". And, in this post-modern age, perhaps he needs a Saviour all the more, since the society in which he lives has become more complex and the threats to his personal and moral integrity have become more insidious. Who can defend him, if not the One who loves him to the point of sacrificing on the Cross his only-begotten Son as the Saviour of the world?

"Salvator noster": Christ is also the Saviour of men and women today. Who will make this message of hope resound, in a credible way, in every corner of the earth? Who will work to ensure the recognition, protection and promotion of the integral good of the human person as the condition for peace, respecting each man and every woman and their proper dignity? Who will help us to realize that with good will, reasonableness and moderation it is possible to avoid aggravating conflicts and instead to find fair solutions? With deep apprehension I think, on this festive day, of the Middle East, marked by so many grave crises and conflicts, and I express my hope that the way will be opened to a just and lasting peace, with respect for the inalienable rights of the peoples living there. I place in the hands of the divine Child of Bethlehem the indications of a resumption of dialogue between the Israelis and Palestinians, which we have witnessed in recent days, and the hope of further encouraging developments. I am confident that, after so many victims, destruction and uncertainty, a democratic Lebanon, open to others and in dialogue with different cultures and religions, will survive and progress. I appeal to all those who hold in their hands the fate of Iraq, that there will be an end to the brutal violence that has brought so much bloodshed to the country, and that every one of its inhabitants will be safe to lead a normal life. I pray to God that in Sri Lanka the parties in conflict will heed the desire of the people for a future of brotherhood and solidarity; that in Darfur and throughout Africa there will be an end to fratricidal conflicts, that the open wounds in that continent will quickly heal and that the steps being made towards reconciliation, democracy and development will be consolidated. May the Divine Child, the Prince of Peace, grant an end to the outbreaks of tension that make uncertain the future of other parts of the world, in Europe and in Latin America.

"Salvator noster": this is our hope; this is the message that the Church proclaims once again this Christmas Day. With the Incarnation, as the Second Vatican Council stated, the Son of God has in some way united himself with each man and women (cf. Gaudium et Spes, 22). The birth of the Head is also the birth of the body, as Pope Saint Leo the Great noted. In Bethlehem the Christian people was born, Christ's mystical body, in which each member is closely joined to the others in total solidarity. Our Saviour is born for all. We must proclaim this not only in words, but by our entire life, giving the world a witness of united, open communities where fraternity and forgiveness reign, along with acceptance and mutual service, truth, justice and love.

A community saved by Christ. This is the true nature of the Church, which draws her nourishment from his Word and his Eucharistic Body. Only by rediscovering the gift she has received can the Church bear witness to Christ the Saviour before all people. She does this with passionate enthusiasm, with full respect for all cultural and religious traditions; she does so joyfully, knowing that the One she proclaims takes away nothing that is authentically human, but instead brings it to fulfillment. In truth, Christ comes to destroy only evil, only sin; everything else, all the rest, he elevates and perfects. Christ does not save us from our humanity, but through it; he does not save us from the world, but came into the world, so that through him the world might be saved (cf. Jn 3:17).

Dear brothers and sisters, wherever you may be, may this message of joy and hope reach your ears: God became man in Jesus Christ, he was born of the Virgin Mary and today he is reborn in the Church. He brings to all the love of the Father in heaven. He is the Saviour of the world! Do not be afraid, open your hearts to him and receive him, so that his Kingdom of love and peace may become the common legacy of each man and woman. Happy Christmas!
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
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Originally posted by: mAdMaLuDaWg
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Thanks for posting it. Sounds about right in the message the church usually gives, which is why I clicked on the post to begin with. It just didn't sound right to hear "Pope: Worship God not technology." That's not the church's style.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
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Originally posted by: mAdMaLuDaWgDealMonkey, I'm taking it that you know how to use Google... why don't you do some research on the Catholic Church's charitable works to back up your claim that the Church does not practice what it preaches.
I don't think it's practicing it hard enough. They can do better.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
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Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Yes, and universities could help a lot of people today if they liquefied their endowments and gave all of their students full scholarships. WashU's endowment is upwards of $4 billion, which would more than cover full tuition for all of their students for quite a while. However, this approach is incredibly short-sighted, as the interest that is made off of these endowments is enough to allow long-term aid that is sustainable and can have a real impact, rather than simply allowing a few material comforts for the worst-off. If the Vatican sold everything it had and gave it to the poor, I don't doubt that it would have some miniscule impact and help a few people. Instead, they dole it out over a prolonged period, thereby helping many more people. This allows them to achieve their primary goal which, again, you apparently don't grasp.
The last time I checked, my local university wasn't wagging its finger at me and lecturing me on helping the world's suffering masses.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
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Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
The hypocritical nature of the church is the entire point of this thread... yet it is irrelevant? Gotcha... You are right, certainly not a blind follower.
Topic Title: Pope: Worship God not technology

The topic is what the pope said, not Church history. You've simply redefined the topic to allow your ridiculous inclusion of a long string of ad hominems. Not surprising, as you're blinded by your own hatred.
Hatred of what? Show me evidence that I have a hatred of christianity? I married a christian!

What the pope says must be taken within the context of what he has said before along with the actions/words of the church in the past. It would be like talking about what Bush says in a speech while ignoring everything that came before it. Stupidity!
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
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Unless God can render the latest games as fast as an 8800GTX, I'm gonna have to give the nod to technology.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
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Originally posted by: BoberFett
Unless God can render the latest games as fast as an 8800GTX, I'm gonna have to give the nod to technology.
Just playing devil's advocate here for a sec -- but, unless your 8800GTX can render reality at 60FPS -- I'm gonna have to go with God.
 

5to1baby1in5

Golden Member
Apr 27, 2001
1,217
88
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I have a new video card. I'm going to install it as soon as I get around to sacrificing the neighbor's cats.

Is that what he's talking about?
 

TheBDB

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2002
3,176
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quote:

The Roman Catholic Church, with some 64 million members and thousands of affiliated operations, is the largest and most influential nongovernment organization in the U.S. But the Church is not a unified corporation: It is a decentralized organization with thousands of legally and financially separate entities. Its 20,000 Catholic churches raise some $7.5 billion annually.
Is that donations from the members of the church or from the church organization itself?
 

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