Pope Benefict lifts excommunication of Holocaust denier

[Bateluer]

Text


Hmm, Pope Benedict doesn't seem like the person to hold the office of Pope. I'm not Catholic, nor am I religious, but I miss Pope John Paul II who was head and shoulders above this guy.

After his 14th birthday in 1941, Benedict -- then called Joseph Ratzinger -- was forced along with the rest of his class in Bavaria, southern Germany, to join the Hitler Youth.

Ouch. Seems like the College of Cardinals could have elected someone else, someone better. People can change, but this is one heck of a black mark.

The pope has twice visited synagogues, in the U.S. and his home country Germany, but recently stated, according to The Times, that dialogue between Christians, Jews and Muslims "in the strict sense of the word" was "not possible."

Holding a high office doesn't always mean pleasing everybody all of the time, after all, you need to break some eggs to make an omelet. Still, he not even trying to keep relations civil with statements like these.

Edited for grammar.

 

[Genx87]

The Hitler Youth mark is irrelevant. Name one able bodied kid who wasnt part of it in Germany during that time? It wasnt an option as much as a requirement within that totalitarian govt. Start the brainwashing immediately.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

As Genx87 says there was no option in joining and I note that you omitted the rest of the paragraph where the popes family was strongly anti-Nazi.

The reason this idiot was kicked out was because of church politics. They didn't toe the line and they got tossed. The new Pope is more sympathetic with their interpretation of Church doctrine and is doing this to close ranks with those of similar beliefs. Yeah the Bishop is a nutjob but the excommunication never had anything to do with that.

 

[Bateluer]

Excommunication is an anachronism today. Its purely symbolic, both the initial excommunication and the lifting. The initial punishment sent a message, as does the lifting of the punishment.

Yes, I did not post post the rest of the paragraph mentioning his family being anti-nazi, but it only mentions his family. Was Ratzinger anti-nazi at the time? The article makes no mention. These days only cooks and crackpots claim to be pro nazi though.

The Catholic church has been rocked by scandal after scandal over the last decade, and I don't think starting another scandal is the best way to mend the rifts that the bishops and cardinals have created in their communities. Pope Benedict isn't doing anything to help the situation either, and this weakens the Catholic church. Whether that is good for humanity in general or not, I'll let others carry that torch.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Topic Title: Pope Benefict lifts excommunication of Holocaust denier

May he spend his fantasy of eternity in the depths of the most miserable the hell of his own pathetic imagination. :thumbsdown:

Originally posted by: Genx87

The Hitler Youth mark is irrelevant. Name one able bodied kid who wasnt part of it in Germany during that time? It wasnt an option as much as a requirement within that totalitarian govt. Start the brainwashing immediately.

You weren't part of it if you were an able bodied German kid whose family was forced to wear a big yellow star and the word, "Juden" on your clothes. In fact, if your family wasn't lucky enough to escape, you probably weren't "able bodied" for long... if you were even alive. :shocked:

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Genx87
The Hitler Youth mark is irrelevant. Name one able bodied kid who wasnt part of it in Germany during that time? It wasnt an option as much as a requirement within that totalitarian govt. Start the brainwashing immediately.

You weren't part of it if you were an able bodied German kid whose family was forced to wear a big yellow star and the word, "Juden" on your clothes.

Benedict was Jewish?

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Genx87
It wasnt an option as much as a requirement within that totalitarian govt. Start the brainwashing immediately.

True, unfortunately

HJ membership became mandatory, under the Gesetz über die Hitlerjugend law. This legal obligation was re-affirmed in 1939 with the Jugenddienstpflicht and HJ membership was required even when it was opposed by the member's parents.

Unless you were deemed inferior by the party... in which case the alternative is not pleasant.

 

[CanOWorms]

It's all about church attendance.

The Catholic Church is concerned regarding the decline of worshipers in their churches. Benedict has repeatedly showed that he is trying to stem off the decline in Western Europe, trying especially hard to stop Spain from toppling from the Catholic Church's grip. Appealing to the far-right will swell the European congregation quite a lot.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Text


Hmm, Pope Benedict doesn't seem like the person to hold the office of Pope. I'm not Catholic, nor am I religious, but I miss Pope John Paul II who was head and shoulders above this guy.

After his 14th birthday in 1941, Benedict -- then called Joseph Ratzinger -- was forced along with the rest of his class in Bavaria, southern Germany, to join the Hitler Youth.

Ouch. Seems like the College of Cardinals could have elected someone else, someone better. People can change, but this is one heck of a black mark.

The pope has twice visited synagogues, in the U.S. and his home country Germany, but recently stated, according to The Times, that dialogue between Christians, Jews and Muslims "in the strict sense of the word" was "not possible."

Holding a high office doesn't always mean pleasing everybody all of the time, after all, you need to break some eggs to make an omelet. Still, he not even trying to keep relations civil with statements like these.

Edited for grammar.

It`s obvious that you need to study up on your history.......

 

[Paddington]

I know this is a sensitive subject for a lot of people, but I don't see why someone should be kicked out of their church for not believing in the Holocaust. Is that a sin somewhere in the Bible? Even people who commit more heinous crimes, *actual* crimes like murder, rape, etc. aren't excommunicated.

Also, since when do we in America endorse punishing people for "thought crimes"? I think it was a smart decision by the pope to overrule a silly move.

<-- Not Christian, BTW.

 

[ScottyB]

Nazi Pope strikes again!

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: Paddington
I know this is a sensitive subject for a lot of people, but I don't see why someone should be kicked out of their church for not believing in the Holocaust. Is that a sin somewhere in the Bible? Even people who commit more heinous crimes, *actual* crimes like murder, rape, etc. aren't excommunicated.

Also, since when do we in America endorse punishing people for "thought crimes"? I think it was a smart decision by the pope to overrule a silly move.

<-- Not Christian, BTW.

Apparentely it does go against the teachings of the Catholic Church. Here is a quote from Fox News: "The Vatican said Monday that comments by a recently rehabilitated bishop that no Jews were gassed during the Holocaust were "unacceptable" and violate Church teaching."

Regarding people not being excommunicated for murder and rape I'd be willing to bet the Catholic policy is similar to other Christian churches and the person IS excommunicated. Not sure on that though.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Topic Title: Pope Benefict lifts excommunication of Holocaust denier

May he spend his fantasy of eternity in the depths of the most miserable the hell of his own pathetic imagination. :thumbsdown:

Originally posted by: Genx87

The Hitler Youth mark is irrelevant. Name one able bodied kid who wasnt part of it in Germany during that time? It wasnt an option as much as a requirement within that totalitarian govt. Start the brainwashing immediately.

You weren't part of it if you were an able bodied German kid whose family was forced to wear a big yellow star and the word, "Juden" on your clothes. In fact, if your family wasn't lucky enough to escape, you probably weren't "able bodied" for long... if you were even alive. :shocked:

This!
+12 to the 10,000 pwr. Or close.

Really, is this kind of stuff that Catholics want in a Pope? I'm not the least bit religious, but would think a Pope might be closer to the virtues of, say, Jesus? Rather than Himmler?

This isn't strong evidence of the rise of anti-Semitism, but it's suggestive, IMHO.

-Robert

 

[Mani]

I don't believe in religion, but if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't want this clown representing it.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Topic Title: Pope Benefict lifts excommunication of Holocaust denier

May he spend his fantasy of eternity in the depths of the most miserable the hell of his own pathetic imagination. :thumbsdown:

Originally posted by: Genx87

The Hitler Youth mark is irrelevant. Name one able bodied kid who wasnt part of it in Germany during that time? It wasnt an option as much as a requirement within that totalitarian govt. Start the brainwashing immediately.

You weren't part of it if you were an able bodied German kid whose family was forced to wear a big yellow star and the word, "Juden" on your clothes. In fact, if your family wasn't lucky enough to escape, you probably weren't "able bodied" for long... if you were even alive. :shocked:

This!
+12 to the 10,000 pwr. Or close.

Really, is this kind of stuff that Catholics want in a Pope? I'm not the least bit religious, but would think a Pope might be closer to the virtues of, say, Jesus? Rather than Himmler?

This isn't strong evidence of the rise of anti-Semitism, but it's suggestive, IMHO.

-Robert

If you were a kid in Nazi Germany forced into the Hitler Youth should we claim you a Nazi? Did you have a choice? Use some rational thinking.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Elfear
Regarding people not being excommunicated for murder and rape I'd be willing to bet the Catholic policy is similar to other Christian churches and the person IS excommunicated. Not sure on that though.

One obvious example is that there were many Catholics in the Nazi hiercey, and even Hitler was never excommunicated.

As for the Pope, Nazi youth or otherwise, he has made some flagrantly bigoted comments in regard to other faiths, in stark contrast to the humanitarian teachings of Pope John Paul II.

 

[mAdMaLuDaWg]

Catholic here and I find what the pope did reckless and uncalled for.