Pootin and Obummer are going to get us all nuked.

[bshole]

Iraq and Afghanistan.

Where are the sanctions against the USA?

Not only did we invade a sovereign nation, we overthrew its government, put the president on trial and helped execute him.

Not like we have a lot of room to talk.

There is absolutely no doubt that we what did in Iraq was criminal. One of the benefits of being a super power is that you can do criminal stuff and get away with it. Might makes right. That is the only axiom that ever matters in world politics.

 

[werepossum]

Iraq and Afghanistan.

Where are the sanctions against the USA?

Not only did we invade a sovereign nation, we overthrew its government, put the president on trial and helped execute him.

Not like we have a lot of room to talk.

Neither of those were Obama. Both wars were won when he took over, leaving him to handle the occupation. Iraq already had a withdrawal timetable established in conjunction with the Iraqi government. In Afghanistan he did surge troops and fight a pretty hot guerrilla war, but pulling out and allowing the Afghans to be brutalized by the Taliban would also have been a bad thing to do. Not allowing people who your nation has made vulnerable to be brutalized is not being a bully, it's the opposite of being a bully.

As far as authorization, Afghanistan supported and sheltered a group that killed almost 3,000 Americans. To most of us that's a far cry from "They threw out my guy and put in a guy who won't do what I tell him to do." Iraq I put squarely in equality with Syria, Egypt and Jordan attacking (or massing to attack) Israel and ending up losing territory. Iraq annexed Kuwait; that caused a reaction that eventually cost Saddam his reign and his life. I think that's a good thing; no nation should be able to invade and annex a weaker neighbor with the expectation that if it doesn't work out the nation and its leaders will not be affected beyond killing off some peasant soldiers and breaking the war materiel in the annexed nation.

Saddam had total control of Iraq, he personally made the decision to invade Kuwait, he ignored multiple opportunities to limit Iraq's damage. What justice lies in a couple hundred thousand Iraqi conscripts dying and Saddam living a long life in his dozens of palaces surrounded by French luxuries while his people drop lower and lower in wealth and health? But even if you believe that Saddam was morally correct and should today be happily feeding his political enemies into his industrial plastic shredder, that's on Bush, not Obama. Pretty sure the Constitution prohibits the President from restoring dead dictators to life.

 

[BUnit1701]

No. No Obama nuked.
The fact is Palin and McCain and Romney would have gotten us nuked.
Besides, how the hell would anyone know what Romney would actually have done?
Its easy to sit on the side lines and gripe, but Mitten's has no record nor history with being some master mind concerning global affairs.
Palin is insane and thats where it starts and stops. The only people dumber than Palin are the people that think she has a brain.

If Romney were president, his knee jerk reaction would be with following the Bush agenda.
Hire all the same old war hawks, same bull crap, and you know how they all went down.
The only answer they ever have for any problem would be a war.

Obama is hitting Putin where it hurts most, his pocket book.
So when Obama's policy proves the correct route, I doubt anyone in the media nor from the right wing will give any credit.
Or admit Obama was right.
That is not in their nature.

Economic sanctions are a little subtle way to piss off Putin.
And it works.
In todays world, war is useless. We kill them, they kill us, and on and on it goes.
But $$$ money?
Money hits their soft spot hard where no bomb or droid could never reach.
Like a swift kick in the old money-balls.
Putin isn't just mad, Putin is steaming.
And Putin will quietly fold, quietly, as to not appear weak.
Right not the real challenge is to give Putin a way out, while saving face, but some way out.
We all know how it feels when the old credit card comes up DECLINED.

Obama mentions the word nuclear; AAAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!! It is a full out Muslim Communist assault on 'Murica!!!!!

Putin takes off his shirt and threatens to beat the steaming shit out of Obama; *glug* *glug* Oh my,... *glug* *glug* you are SO strong Putin,.. *glug*glug* so powerful,..

The herp-a-derp is strong in these two...

 

[Spungo]

Hmm. Putin is occupying and annexing part of another sovereign nation, massing his military openly on the border, openly sending elite Russian troops (albeit without insignia) into Ukraine, and shooting down Ukrainian planes (and perhaps a civilian airliner) inside Ukraine, and OBAMA is acting like a bully?

Putin could easily say the same things about NATO. Remember that Americans and Russians view the situation very differently. You see Russia's actions as an offensive move into Crimea. Russia sees it as a defensive move into Crimea. Example: we have lots of American soldiers stationed in South Korea. The American perspective is that this is a defensive presence to keep North Korea in check. The North Korean and maybe Chinese perspective is that Americans stationed in South Korea are an offensive threat. As a result, the border between North and South Korea is one of the most heavily militarized borders in the world. People in the North are waiting for the South to attack; people in the South are waiting for the North to attack.

What do Russians see happening?
NATO and the EU are advancing toward Russia. We (the west) "captured" Poland and Ukraine. Poland is part of the EU and NATO. Ukraine is quickly becoming part of the EU and NATO. There's literally no difference between west Ukraine joining the EU and Crimea joining Russia. What is the EU? It's a federation where citizens of member states use a common currency and can freely travel between states. What is the Russian Federation? It's a federation where citizens of member states use a common currency and can freely travel between states. Both are considered super powers, both have nuclear weapons, both have spheres of influence, both have a history of overthrowing governments and installing puppets.

 

[yllus]

It's pretty obvious that America isn't going to set foot militarily in Russia's back yard - not for a non-NATO, non-essential ally like Ukraine. All that's left is talk and sanctions, and I think that the Obama White House is doing fine with those tools.

If President Palin and President Romney would take different actions, I'd like to hear what they are. (Because no sane person would undertake different policy than Obama is, I don't expect to get an answer to this question.)