Poor temps? What do you guys think?

AndyD2k

Senior member
Feb 3, 2003
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Specs again...

Q6600
Ultima 90
Noctua 120mm
Asus Maximus
in a Lian Li pc-a10b

These are my temps...

Motherboard 35 °C (95 °F)
CPU 46 °C (115 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 39 °C (102 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 40 °C (104 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #3 35 °C (95 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #4 34 °C (93 °F)
North Bridge 51 °C (124 °F)
South Bridge 49 °C (120 °F)
GPU 72 °C (162 °F)
GPU Ambient 57 °C (135 °F)
HDT722525DLA380 39 °C (102 °F)
WDC WD5000KS-00MNB0 39 °C (102 °F)
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,097
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1) Have you over-clocked the system yet?

2) Which utility are you using to measure temperatures? I advise against using SpeedFan. If your OS is Win XP /Pro/Home/MCE SP2, then use CoreTemp (freeware) to measure the core (TJunction) temperatures. If your OS is VISTA, then use Everest Ultimate. Everest will load up core-#0 a bit, because it is processing readings from voltage, temperature and fan-speed sensors like crazy, but it accurately measure temperatures corresponding to those measured by CoreTemp.

3) What is your room-ambient temperature? Even the motherboard temperature seems a bit high, but I haven't determined yet that you're using reliable software to read the temperature sensors.

Even at a 25% over-clock to 3.0 Ghz, the TCASE temperature in your system -- if processor is "idle" -- appears high. (Again, temperature monitoring software reliability is at issue yet.) Barring p***-poor case ventilation, the idle TCASE value should be in the low to mid-20's Celsius if room temperature is 70+F. Not familiar first-hand (yet) with the Maximus, but ASUS has a proprietary "stack-cool" feature of their mobos, and even your mobo temperature seems about 4C too high, if room-ambient is below 74F.

Not all that familiar with the Noctua, but if I recall, it is a low-rpm, low-noise, low-CFM fan. Personally, I'm not sure whether it is better to use a 92mm fan like a Panaflo, or the 120mm size. You'll probably get optimal CPU cooling with minimal noise if you can strive for at least 55 CFM pushing through the heatsink fins (and not around the cooler).

With that cooler, (probably) that motherboard, and that processor, you should probably strive for a TCASE value of 40 to 48C at processor full-load, with the TJunction Core values all below 60C -- when the system is over-clocked at least 25%, and room-ambient at 70F or just a little higher.

All stock settings would yield lower temperatures -- of course.

Just as afterthought in passing -- what you show as the core values for a Q6600 at idle seem "in the ball-park" and only a tad on the high side. But the TCASE ("CPU") temperature should be 9 to 15 degrees Celsius lower than the core average.
 

AndyD2k

Senior member
Feb 3, 2003
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Originally posted by: BakaTsuchiro
wow everything seem pretty hot.... are they OCed and what revision q6600?

I just finished putting it together. Cpu is g0. I may have to do a better job with the MX-2 and reseat the heatsink but everything else is out of my hands. I'll take a pic of the inside tomorrow but there is barely anything blocking airflow. I think I did a pretty good job with setting everything up. At least much better than my previous build. And like I said in the other thread, the vid card is not of my doing. The fan is barely doing it's job right now. I feel nothing around it and I can see it's barely moving

 

AndyD2k

Senior member
Feb 3, 2003
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Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
1) Have you over-clocked the system yet?

2) Which utility are you using to measure temperatures? I advise against using SpeedFan. If your OS is Win XP /Pro/Home/MCE SP2, then use CoreTemp (freeware) to measure the core (TJunction) temperatures. If your OS is VISTA, then use Everest Ultimate. Everest will load up core-#0 a bit, because it is processing readings from voltage, temperature and fan-speed sensors like crazy, but it accurately measure temperatures corresponding to those measured by CoreTemp.

3) What is your room-ambient temperature? Even the motherboard temperature seems a bit high, but I haven't determined yet that you're using reliable software to read the temperature sensors.

Even at a 25% over-clock to 3.0 Ghz, the TCASE temperature in your system -- if processor is "idle" -- appears high. (Again, temperature monitoring software reliability is at issue yet.) Barring p***-poor case ventilation, the idle TCASE value should be in the low to mid-20's Celsius if room temperature is 70+F. Not familiar first-hand (yet) with the Maximus, but ASUS has a proprietary "stack-cool" feature of their mobos, and even your mobo temperature seems about 4C too high, if room-ambient is below 74F.

Not all that familiar with the Noctua, but if I recall, it is a low-rpm, low-noise, low-CFM fan. Personally, I'm not sure whether it is better to use a 92mm fan like a Panaflo, or the 120mm size. You'll probably get optimal CPU cooling with minimal noise if you can strive for at least 55 CFM pushing through the heatsink fins (and not around the cooler).

With that cooler, (probably) that motherboard, and that processor, you should probably strive for a TCASE value of 40 to 48C at processor full-load, with the TJunction Core values all below 60C -- when the system is over-clocked at least 25%, and room-ambient at 70F or just a little higher.

All stock settings would yield lower temperatures -- of course.

Just as afterthought in passing -- what you show as the core values for a Q6600 at idle seem "in the ball-park" and only a tad on the high side. But the TCASE ("CPU") temperature should be 9 to 15 degrees Celsius lower than the core average.

1. No overclocking - just auto settings. I still have to adjust my memory timings
2. Vista 64bit. And yeah, I'm using Everest
3. My room tends to be warmer even during the winter unless I open the window. Small room with a lot of electronics (including a 32inch lcd behind that's currently on). I don't have a way of measuring the temp
4. I'll consider switching the fan. I think I still have a panaflo somewhere from a old build. But if you're saying I should have at least 55, I think I'm actually currently getting that...

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page4.html

Not sure what TCASE and TJUNCTION mean

And the high vid card temps wouldn't affect overall temps?
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,097
1,715
126
I'll check back then, as I clean house for the fam-dam-ily's Xmas reunion.

I also am pooped out.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,097
1,715
126
One more before I turn in.

High vid-card temps WOULD affect case-interior ambients and therefore mobo and CPU values. I won't go into the detail of my motherboard-ducting and fan-deployment at this moment, but yes . . . .

On the Noctua, whichever model it is: I'm suspicious of the CFM rating. The amperages on those fans are something between 0.10 and 0.15A. Regardless of fin-design and other proprietary features, there's a linear relationship between fan-size, amperage (and speed), and CFMs -- more or less. The Panaflo I would use if choosing a 92mm fan has amperage of 0.28A. Ordinarily, I'd pick amperages above 0.30A, and control the fan-speed from the motherboard or some other means -- preferably to on-board or tape-on thermal-sensors.

I'm using the big-bro' to the Ultima -- the TR Ultra-120-Extreme. The fan pulling air through it is a Sanyo-Denki 120x38mm 0.52A fan -- thermally controlled. The noise is minimal, though, because I really don't have a "CPU" fan, but a duct-box around the cooler with the Sanyo as case-exhaust pulling from the cooler, and a 140x25mm Sharkoon case-intake fan pushing through the cooler.

You should do fine with a conventiional "CPU"-fan and your case fans, but again, about the Noctua . . .
 

AndyD2k

Senior member
Feb 3, 2003
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My temps are going up as the video card goes up. I think I'm going to stay away from messing with my cpu cooling till I resolve the issue with my vid card. I'll report back with my temps after adjusting the fan speed
 
Sep 17, 2007
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@andy - my comments aren't going to directly apply to your situation because, well, configurations are different and all. But I struggled a little with temps too, and it was maddening for a while. I find that the whole business of cooling stuff is pretty arcane. Maybe you can find something useful in my comments.

First, I think your new temps look a lot better given the ambient temps you report on the environment outside your case. It is that environment, after all, that provides your case and components with "fresh, cool air." My home office is also fairly small. When I initially boot my system and temps settle in - say 30 minutes - all seems well. But after several hours in a closed home office, gaming or benching - ambients definitely rise. Why? My case is throwing heat into the environment, primarily from my graphics card and PSU, as is my monitor - a 19" viewsonic CRT. I'm sure there's a scientific study on the effect ambient temp rises have on case temps. It'd be nice if the effect were linear ('cause I'm kinda linear myself, and that's a fault.) But the point is, your environment in your small office is not static.

What sticks right out at me re: your temps is the reported CPU temp, which I see as quite high. Everything else looks pretty darn good. I'm speaking about your second set of measurements. I don't have any idea what you're measuring with, nor where your sensors are on your board that do the reporting. I use Everest Ultimate Edition and my rig's in sig. CPU temp is ALWAYS lower than CPU Core temps. If I see core temps moving up at idle - say, after a long benching or gaming session - I always note that CPU temps and motherboard temps are elevated beyond "normal." Your heatsink does a great job bringing down core temps after intensive activity. I've found that in reasonably quiet, closed case systems, that the same is not true of motherboard and CPU temps.

I have a Lian Li case as well, though really different than yours. Lian Li attempts to balance airflow, it seems, when they set their cases up. In my case, it was configured like this: 1-120mm, front and low, intake / 1-120mm, side and low, exhaust / 1-80mm, rear and high, intake / 1-80mm, top, exhaust. What they might not have figured into the airflow equation was: 1. the effect of my PSU, at the top of the case, also exhausting air, and 2. my vid card, which also exhausts air, low and rear. To me, the system was set up, therefore, with negative pressure - I had more air leaving the case than air entering the case. Also problematic - the sheer size (and heat) of today's performance vid cards. The vid card I use in my mid-tower is long enough that it effectively compartmentalizes anything underneath it. Air would flow in - low and front - and seemed to move directly toward my side panel fan. Not going to take you thru all the gyrations I went thru, but this is what I arrived at to get my temps more manageable:

120mm - low and front - 1200rpm - intake
120mm - low and side panel - 1200rpm - intake (this throws cooler air at the vid card and at the northbridge below the CPU)
80mm - high and rear - 2300rpm - exhaust - drawing heat from the heatsink which is set up to push air directly at it
80mm - top of the case - 1250rpm - exhaust
PSU - top of the case - low rpm - exhaust
Vid card - exhaust

This config transformed my temps at the CPU and at the motherboard sensor. I believe it also had a positive effect on the vid card's GPU diode sensor. The case is set up to provide more cool air in - it's trending toward positive pressure. In my environemnt, that made all the difference. My temps aren't "chilly" inside the case (I want a reasonably quiet rig, and my ambient room temps stay around 22-24C, which is a little warm), but I'm satisfied with them, given the overclock, the vid card, the case volume, and the noise generated:

System idle - 60min minimum

CPU - 30C
Motherboard - 35C
Primary Drive - 35C
GPU Diode - 57C
Core 0 - 37C
Core 1 - 38C

Regards,
 

AndyD2k

Senior member
Feb 3, 2003
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I don't see how could ever get it to 30C. My old build never saw temps below 35 even during colder days. Aren't quads supposed to run hotter? And you're seeing 30 with overclocking?

Below are my current temps. Changes I made - switched out the Noctua with the Nexus. A low rpm fan but I just wanted to see what difference I would see - 1 degree less so I'm kind of pissed I spent $20 on the Noctua for practically (or rather better) the same performance. Also added the side fan

Temperatures
Motherboard 35 °C (95 °F)
CPU 42 °C (109 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #1 36 °C (97 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #2 36 °C (97 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #3 33 °C (91 °F)
CPU #1 / Core #4 31 °C (88 °F)
North Bridge 46 °C (115 °F)
South Bridge 47 °C (117 °F)
GPU 50 °C (122 °F)
GPU Ambient 41 °C (106 °F)
HDT722525DLA380 36 °C (97 °F)
WDC WD5000KS-00MNB0 36 °C (97 °F)

Cooling Fans
CPU 1048 RPM
Chassis #1 1507 RPM
Fan #3 1361 RPM
 

AndyD2k

Senior member
Feb 3, 2003
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Originally posted by: Conjugal Visit
What sticks right out at me re: your temps is the reported CPU temp, which I see as quite high. Everything else looks pretty darn good. I'm speaking about your second set of measurements. I don't have any idea what you're measuring with, nor where your sensors are on your board that do the reporting. I use Everest Ultimate Edition and my rig's in sig. CPU temp is ALWAYS lower than CPU Core temps. If I see core temps moving up at idle - say, after a long benching or gaming session - I always note that CPU temps and motherboard temps are elevated beyond "normal." Your heatsink does a great job bringing down core temps after intensive activity. I've found that in reasonably quiet, closed case systems, that the same is not true of motherboard and CPU temps.

So the cpu should be lower than the individual cores? What could cause this? Perhaps my application of the thermal compound? I used Arctic Cooling's MX-2 but I'm not sure if I did a good job of getting it on the cpu just because there wasn't much direction for proper application besides reading that I shouldn't spread the compound on the entire cpu. Now I'm thinking I probably should have. Or just didn't put enough. Could that cause a higher CPU temp? If not, then I have no idea what could be causing this

 
Sep 17, 2007
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@andy - as i said, I'm definitely NOT the go-to guy regarding temp sensing. Meaning, i have no idea where the thermal sensor is that monitors the CPU value. All I can tell you is that when I changed up the airflow within my case, the CPU value dropped in a big way. I think that happened for two reasons - changed the case from negative to positive pressure, and, the side fan is actually large enough that some of it's airflow pushes cool air directly at the northbridge heatsink and at the base of the CPU.

This positive/negative thing: I read that cases set up in a negative config can often be problematic. I imagine that in my case, with fans oriented stock, that the main motherboard area wasn't getting much air movement at all. Plenty of air movement underneath the vid card - not much above it (where the CPU/heatsink, etc is...)

Last, I've been clear, I think - that 30C value is the CPU value, not the CPU core values. From what I've seen re: Quads, your temps seem pretty good in a closed case, air-cooled.
 

AndyD2k

Senior member
Feb 3, 2003
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Yeah, but you were saying that value should be below the cores? Meaning my 42C for the cpu temp should be below the 4 individual cores?
 
Sep 17, 2007
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Originally posted by: AndyD2k
Yeah, but you were saying that value should be below the cores? Meaning my 42C for the cpu temp should be below the 4 individual cores?

That's what I'm saying, yes.
 

AndyD2k

Senior member
Feb 3, 2003
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Originally posted by: Thor86
Noctua fans suck. Get a Sycthe S-Flex E.

I'm going to agree with you if for the only reason that my Nexus (a Yate Loon) which cost 1/4 of what the Noctua cost me is actually doing a little better at cooling

Also, I'm reading elsewhere that there may be temp reading issues with the current BIOS files available for the Asus Maximus. I hope this is the case
 

AndyD2k

Senior member
Feb 3, 2003
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Originally posted by: Conjugal Visit
Originally posted by: AndyD2k
Yeah, but you were saying that value should be below the cores? Meaning my 42C for the cpu temp should be below the 4 individual cores?

That's what I'm saying, yes.

Ok. Then I'm just confused as to why I'm getting the readings I'm getting. I'm going to assume it's my current BIOS on my board. Trying to find more info on xtremesystems.com

 

fb0252

Junior Member
Feb 8, 2006
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Andy, sorry to butt in on a different topic. I just tried to fit an Ultima-90 into an Asus P5E MB, same design as Maximus. Wondering if your Ultima-90 fit. I had to slightly bend the fins on the MB heat sinks to get it in there.
 

AndyD2k

Senior member
Feb 3, 2003
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I actually had no issues with the board and heatsink. What I did have issues with was the case and the top fan. Lian Li gave very little room at the top between the fan and the board. Fine for other boards I'm sure but the heatsink around the cpu stopped me from sliding the board in as the fan blocked it. I had to buy the only 120x20mm fan I could find. It's still awfully close but I can get it in nonetheless. Here's a pic of how close things are...

http://users.rcn.com/andyd2k/clearance.jpg