Poor Patriots in USN service: 23 Commanding Officers Fired Since Feb. 2003

[MadRat]

Navy Frigate Commander Fired for Leave

By Associated Press

March 4, 2004, 5:14 PM EST

MAYPORT, Fla. -- The commander of a guided missile Navy frigate was fired for taking unauthorized shore leave during a port of call in Ecuador.

Cmdr. Mike Hall, of the USS Samuel B. Roberts, was relieved of duty Feb. 27 after he left the ship overnight, the Navy said.

Hall was dismissed for loss of confidence in decision-making ability relating to safety, security and the operational efficiency of his ship, the Navy said in a statement.

Policy barred the crew of the Mayport-based ship, including its commander, from taking liberty in Ecuador, said Cmdr. Terry Sutherland, a Navy spokesman.

"He is responsible for the ship but was absent," Sutherland said.

Cmdr. Bernard Gately will replace Hall, officials said.

Since February 2003, the Navy has relieved 23 commanding officers, according to the Navy Times. That compares with five in 2000, 10 in 2001 and six in 2002.

 

[UltraQuiet]

"Poor Patriots in USN service"


Is there a point to that SadRat or are you just in here trolling?

 

[UltraQuiet]

 

[MadRat]

Does it speak to a sudden increase of poor officer recruits, or does it point at intolerance for the line?

Its not like this is a sudden change of behavior for commanding officers. The practice of quietly excusing oneself from the ship was never uncommon, and firing them over it was even less common. Heck, most poor behavior is swept under the rug if you have such positions of authority. So, one, the recruits are suddenly terrible more than usual, or two, the chain of command is losing its ability to manage itself. Good officers cover for each other, so why the big increase? Poor patriots one way or another.

 

[thebeigebeast]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
"Poor Patriots in USN service"


Is there a point to that SadRat or are you just in here trolling?

what are you counting down for UltraQuiet?

 

[chess9]

UQ must be getting pretty short.



-Robert

 

[tnitsuj]

WTF is the point of this thread??

 

[nutxo]

We are at war, in case you have not noticed. Maybe things that slip by in peace time don't fly right now.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: MadRat
Does it speak to a sudden increase of poor officer recruits, or does it point at intolerance for the line?

Its not like this is a sudden change of behavior for commanding officers. The practice of quietly excusing oneself from the ship was never uncommon, and firing them over it was even less common. Heck, most poor behavior is swept under the rug if you have such positions of authority. So, one, the recruits are suddenly terrible more than usual, or two, the chain of command is losing its ability to manage itself. Good officers cover for each other, so why the big increase? Poor patriots one way or another.

I think you should list the CO's that were fired and the reasons thereof and we'll discuss them one by one. Right now all your doing is talking generalities and, quite frankly, out your ass. When you bounce your boat off the bottom, run your ship aground, get caught in the sack with a subordinate, leave your ship after being given a direct, face-to-face order not to,etc., you get relieved. Always have, always will. But like I said, if you get the list of CO's, well discuss it. One of us has seen the incident reports and the Op Reps that describe most of these cases. One of us hasn't.

what are you counting down for UltraQuiet?

I'm retiring from the Navy.

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
I think you should list the CO's that were fired and the reasons thereof and we'll discuss them one by one. Right now all your doing is talking generalities and, quite frankly, out your ass. When you bounce your boat off the bottom, run your ship aground, get caught in the sack with a subordinate, leave your ship after being given a direct, face-to-face order not to,etc., you get relieved. Always have, always will. But like I said, if you get the list of CO's, well discuss it. One of us has seen the incident reports and the Op Reps that describe most of these cases. One of us hasn't.

Judging by the attitude it looks like you may be part of the problem. I've known too many good officers that played their part every day from start to finish of their career, and made no excuses for their behavior. When, and its not possible to avoid it, when they broke rank there was always someone there to reel them back into the line. The fact that we've gone from almost no measureable number to a sudden blip on the radar screen points to a problem. Either the problem happened prior to this and set up the measureable surge, or the problem is happening now. Ultra Quiet, you seem to want to provoke some kind of personal battle here, which judging by your name and pathetic attitude, you're really someone I already know by another name around here but seem to have jumped to a new account.

Well, Sohmer-like dude, if you are D.S then here's a message for you: You have this sore spot with criticism of the USN obviously and are intolerant of anything but bliss. Intolerance has been your outward sign of losing focus. Let me guess, you're still going to retire and go be some big shot somewhere else that will appreciate your talent and experience. Well, D.S., you said that over a year ago and here its come and gone. Guess there really wasn't that big job waiting for you after all. Keep dreaming, bud, that those people are out there waiting to hire you for that big important job, because its all a dream. When you leave your time earned position then reality will sit in and you will be judged on merit and not time. Perhaps you should refocus on the job you're supposed to be doing and set your sights on something more than purely your own end game. A dedicated guy that still has focus is certainly ready to fill the void you've already made. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: nutxo
We are at war, in case you have not noticed. Maybe things that slip by in peace time don't fly right now.

When you build a team you have to use their transgressions to build their character. Lopping an otherwise good character off the team is a sad finale. It really ends up reflecting poorly on the sod that vouched for his character to begin with; the voucher looks like a total idiot. In a well mannered hierarchy, a patriotic hierarchy, the backstabbing and two-faced characters don't ascend and the real decent characters move towards the ceiling. The fact that we suddenly have a measureable string of failures in the line points to failure in more than just these men that were fired. It really ends up looking like the true trouble points to the men who ascended the line before them.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: MadRat

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
I think you should list the CO's that were fired and the reasons thereof and we'll discuss them one by one. Right now all your doing is talking generalities and, quite frankly, out your ass. When you bounce your boat off the bottom, run your ship aground, get caught in the sack with a subordinate, leave your ship after being given a direct, face-to-face order not to,etc., you get relieved. Always have, always will. But like I said, if you get the list of CO's, well discuss it. One of us has seen the incident reports and the Op Reps that describe most of these cases. One of us hasn't.

Judging by the attitude it looks like you may be part of the problem. I've known too many good officers that played their part every day from start to finish of their career, and made no excuses for their behavior. When, and its not possible to avoid it, when they broke rank there was always someone there to reel them back into the line. The fact that we've gone from almost no measureable number to a sudden blip on the radar screen points to a problem. Either the problem happened prior to this and set up the measureable surge, or the problem is happening now. Ultra Quiet, you seem to want to provoke some kind of personal battle here, which judging by your name and pathetic attitude, you're really someone I already know by another name around here but seem to have jumped to a new account.

Well, Sohmer-like dude, if you are D.S then here's a message for you: You have this sore spot with criticism of the USN obviously and are intolerant of anything but bliss. Intolerance has been your outward sign of losing focus. Let me guess, you're still going to retire and go be some big shot somewhere else that will appreciate your talent and experience. Well, D.S., you said that over a year ago and here its come and gone. Guess there really wasn't that big job waiting for you after all. Keep dreaming, bud, that those people are out there waiting to hire you for that big important job, because its all a dream. When you leave your time earned position then reality will sit in and you will be judged on merit and not time. Perhaps you should refocus on the job you're supposed to be doing and set your sights on something more than purely your own end game. A dedicated guy that still has focus is certainly ready to fill the void you've already made. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Blah, blah, blah, same old sh!t, same old sadrat. Like I said before, you're talking straight out of your ass. Where's your list of CO's and the reasons they were fired for. Do you have one? Do you know the circumstances under which they were relieved? I provoke no personal battle, I just want you to back up your drivel with facts. You can do that right. I mean you are in some kind of position to pass those judgements right. What position might that be? Please enlighten us. Please, please, please give us some more of that knowledge of all things military that you are so famous for. Either that or make sure you show your teeth when you speak so we know it's your face and not your ass.

As for your second paragraph of old, tired ignorance, feel free to move your head out of the way long enough to stick it straight up your ass.

Now run along and PM a mod you pathetic little b!tch.

 

[UltraQuiet]

 

[tontod]

I work at Electric Boat (1 of 2 builders of submarines for the U.S. Navy) and the CO of the submarine I'm working on was fired a couple of months ago - "conduct unbecoming an officer". He was caught having sex with one of his direct resports' wives. :Q

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: tontod
I work at Electric Boat (1 of 2 builders of submarines for the U.S. Navy) and the CO of the submarine I'm working on was fired a couple of months ago - "conduct unbecoming an officer". He was caught having sex with one of his direct resports' wives. :Q

Well, now sadrat knows why two CO's were relieved. Maybe he'll be back to share some more of his expertise on this matter. After all, according to him, sleeping with a subdordinates wife shouldn't be grounds for getting relieved. It should be spun in a positive way and used to "build character". Fscking idiot.

 

[MadRat]

I knew it was you, Dave. Couldn't handle your old nick so you went into silent mode. Good for you.

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
After all, according to him, sleeping with a subdordinates wife shouldn't be grounds for getting relieved. It should be spun in a positive way and used to "build character".

Instead of being fired, the guy needed to be offered an out. You know that, and everyone else that has ever been in a position of authority knows that. Trouble like that just doesn't show up on the doorstep one day, its invited in. I'm sure if one tried it wouldn't be all that hard to find a character building lesson out of it. It wouldn't hurt to look at who hired both of them (the CO and his direct report) in the first place. There was a time in the service where one had to answer for the ones that they propped up. If this guy is getting fired then the subordinate should be canned, too. Quite frankly, both of them were wrong to put each other in the position they found themselves in.

I'm sure most of us out here would be very willing to forgive our wives for one transgression, even if it was with our boss. Especially if you have a family to hold together, then divorce over something like this would be stupid. It may not be a crime to have a wife like that, but its a risk to the guy's personal worth for having a wife that compromise's her husband's career over a thrill. He needs to choose his wife (if she has the disposition to be like that) or his career, whichever he wants to put first. (Ah, so he doesn't have to be fired, he can be given a choice. Novel idea!) And the guy who hired him should be given a little talk for hiring a guy with a wife like that. So, Davie, what's so wrong that three or more people perhaps can't get a real character building lesson that will save everyone alot of hassle in the long run?

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: MadRat

Originally posted by: nutxo
We are at war, in case you have not noticed. Maybe things that slip by in peace time don't fly right now.

When you build a team you have to use their transgressions to build their character. Lopping an otherwise good character off the team is a sad finale. It really ends up reflecting poorly on the sod that vouched for his character to begin with; the voucher looks like a total idiot. In a well mannered hierarchy, a patriotic hierarchy, the backstabbing and two-faced characters don't ascend and the real decent characters move towards the ceiling. The fact that we suddenly have a measureable string of failures in the line points to failure in more than just these men that were fired. It really ends up looking like the true trouble points to the men who ascended the line before them.

It sounded like the guy disobeyed a direct order or at least ignored SOP. Myself, no disrespect intended to a few people on these boards, I've never had a lot of love for the zeroes but they are expected to to be the example. A captain of a ship disobeying orders would be the worst example I should think. If he wont follow orders, why should anyone else?