Pool manager who couldn't swim almost drowns. Now sues police

[JEDI]

https://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2018/04/pool-worker-tried-drown-sues-police-resuscitated/

A man who couldn’t swim, but came to Fairfax County to work at a pool in 2016 and almost drowned himself, has filed a federal lawsuit against the lifeguard who pulled him out of the water and the county police officers who resuscitated him.

Fairfax County Police Chief Edwin Roessler fully supported his officers’ handling of the situation.
“It’s a frivolous lawsuit — we saved a young man’s life,” Roessler told WTOP.

 

[SKORPI0]

1. Diagnosed Bi-polar.
2. Suicidal, tries to drown himself on the pool.
3. Couldn't swim despite claiming on job application that they could.
4. Claims to be the lifeguard, but is not.

 

[nakedfrog]

I'll bet these are some pretty classy lawyers he has.

 

[Mai72]

He can sue.

Ain't gonna get sh*t.

 

[shortylickens]

Today I Learned:

Bi-polar episodes make you drown.

Neato.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

I think he should be thrown off the roof of the courthouse into a pool.

 

[IronWing]

Water is polar but it isn't bi. Two hydrogens for every oxygen. There's a Jan and Dean song about this. Look it up.

 

[Mayne]

You guys remember learning how to swim and your dad or mom just threw you in the deep end? Good times.

 

[IronWing]

My wife accuses me of being a selkie.

 

[Darwin333]

As much as this asshole did everything to himself, it is still disturbing to see a gaggle of cops just watching him do it without a care in the world. Threaten to kill yourself, and only yourself, and the same number of cops will show up at your house, kick your door down and forcibly remove you at gunpoint. They let this go on for too long, imho, but with that said this isn't one of those cases against cops I'd devote any real time to.

 

[Kaido]

it is still disturbing to see a gaggle of cops just watching him do it without a care in the world.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I mean really, what else were they supposed to do? He didn't have a weapon and it was all talk until he stayed in the pool to the point where they felt they needed to intervene. He could have been playing the other side of the coin too - hoping that the cops would arrest him before he did anything & claim police brutality while someone else recorded it, or some nonsense. It was a weird situation for sure, but what was the right answer in this case? You don't really want to jump into a pool in full uniform with your cell phone & gun if someone is just trying to pull a prank, either.

I have a friend who is a cop and he describes his job as 99% boredom and 1% stark terror. You never know when something crazy is going to happen or when someone is going to do something insane like actually try to drown themselves in front of you.

 

[Kaido]

A man who couldn’t swim, but came to Fairfax County to work at a pool in 2016 and almost drowned himself, has filed a federal lawsuit against the lifeguard who pulled him out of the water and the county police officers who resuscitated him.

Fairfax County Police Chief Edwin Roessler fully supported his officers’ handling of the situation.
“It’s a frivolous lawsuit — we saved a young man’s life,” Roessler told WTOP.

This sounds suspiciously like the intro to the Incredibles...they save a dude's life and end up getting sued or whatever lol. What a crock. I'd imagine the Good Samaritan law applies here...

 

[Kaido]

1. Diagnosed Bi-polar.
2. Suicidal, tries to drown himself on the pool.
3. Couldn't swim despite claiming on job application that they could.
4. Claims to be the lifeguard, but is not.

On a tangent, who hires a lifeguard & doesn't bother to see if they can actually swim? Literally every single job I've ever worked at has had someone babysit me for like the first week to evaluate my competency & train me, whether it was making pizzas or fixing computers.

 

[Darwin333]

You guys remember learning how to swim and your dad or mom just threw you in the deep end? Good times.

Maybe you should throw your sister and your nephew into the deep end.

 

[madoka]

Literally every single job I've ever worked at has had someone babysit me for like the first week to evaluate my competency & train me, whether it was making pizzas or fixing computers.

Man, you must suck at your job. McDonald's trusted me to man the fry station after one day!

But seriously, I was told that I was the best fry station worker they ever had. My secret was because I looked at how many people were in line and predicted how many fries I should have ready. And that kids, is why I make the big bucks.

 

[Jeeebus]

Filing in federal court was a mistake since federal judges have infinitely less bullshit tolerance than state court judges (generally). Case will be dismissed (at least against the police) since the Supreme Court has held that the police don't have any specific duty to protect us (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales), There are plenty of cases applying this holding to dismissals of lawsuits against the police on similar allegations.

 

[interchange]

Read the article. The officers stood next to him while he was drowning himself to the point that he required CPR to revive in the setting of clear evidence that he was severely mentally ill and incompetent. The article alleges they misrepresented the time he was underwater to the ED causing improper treatment. I don't know the actual reality of what happened, but if it is exactly as alleged, I think the police are liable for damages.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

The police were better off letting him drown first and revive him, than letting this guy drown a cop or lifeguard trying to pull him out of the water.

 

[Thebobo]

Water is polar but it isn't bi. Two hydrogens for every oxygen. There's a Jan and Dean song about this. Look it up.

which song is that?

 

[interchange]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I mean really, what else were they supposed to do? He didn't have a weapon and it was all talk until he stayed in the pool to the point where they felt they needed to intervene. He could have been playing the other side of the coin too - hoping that the cops would arrest him before he did anything & claim police brutality while someone else recorded it, or some nonsense. It was a weird situation for sure, but what was the right answer in this case? You don't really want to jump into a pool in full uniform with your cell phone & gun if someone is just trying to pull a prank, either.

I have a friend who is a cop and he describes his job as 99% boredom and 1% stark terror. You never know when something crazy is going to happen or when someone is going to do something insane like actually try to drown themselves in front of you.

The question is:
1. Were they negligent in waiting so long to intervene?
2. Were they negligent in reporting to the ED the amount of time he was underwater?
3. If yes to 1/2, did he suffer damages as a result of the negligence?

If they really did underreport to the ED how long he was underwater, that could be a big indication of consciousness of negligence in #1.

There is no doubt that the officers had a legal duty to protect him from self-harm. Every state has a mental health code that affirms peace officers as having duty to protect people exhibiting evidence of mental illness from activity that imminently threatens harm to self or others. I don't think anyone would disagree that this situation applies here, and under the law the individual is incompetent. Legally it is no different than if they were 5 years old.

Philosophically rather than legally, does the person bear responsibility for the results of his actions? Well, the best I can is it depends. And there's no way a media article is sufficient to inform me on that.

 

[JEDI]

Filing in federal court was a mistake since federal judges have infinitely less bullshit tolerance than state court judges (generally). Case will be dismissed (at least against the police) since the Supreme Court has held that the police don't have any specific duty to protect us (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales), There are plenty of cases applying this holding to dismissals of lawsuits against the police on similar allegations.

what?!
this makes restraining orders worthless???

 

[interchange]

Filing in federal court was a mistake since federal judges have infinitely less bullshit tolerance than state court judges (generally). Case will be dismissed (at least against the police) since the Supreme Court has held that the police don't have any specific duty to protect us (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales), There are plenty of cases applying this holding to dismissals of lawsuits against the police on similar allegations.

I'm not sure if there is a federal mental health code. Certainly at State level there is absolutely a duty for the police to protect a person who is mentally ill and imminently a threat to themselves or others. That does not seem to be in conflict with the Supreme Court case, and I am unsure if, even absent a specific mental health code covering their duty here that it applies. In the case you cite, it wasn't clear that Gonzales was in imminent danger. A man drowning within feet of you is quite different than that. But IANAL, so I'm unsure of case law that might clarify these considerations.

I also know that, if he had a choice of whether to file in state or federal court, there is a reason federal court was chosen.

 

[Darwin333]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I mean really, what else were they supposed to do? He didn't have a weapon and it was all talk until he stayed in the pool to the point where they felt they needed to intervene. He could have been playing the other side of the coin too - hoping that the cops would arrest him before he did anything & claim police brutality while someone else recorded it, or some nonsense. It was a weird situation for sure, but what was the right answer in this case? You don't really want to jump into a pool in full uniform with your cell phone & gun if someone is just trying to pull a prank, either.

I have a friend who is a cop and he describes his job as 99% boredom and 1% stark terror. You never know when something crazy is going to happen or when someone is going to do something insane like actually try to drown themselves in front of you.

Eh, you make a decent enough point. I wasn't really talking about roughing him up or anything just jumping in and attempting to rescue him which no one would call brutality. I didn't time how long he was under but it sure seemed like a really long time, I guess that could be because I was watching with the expectation of something happening. I do wonder why there were so many cops, particularly standing around the side of the pool he was in?

All that said, if I was on a jury for the lawsuit I wouldn't award this guy a dime. He put himself in danger while making everyone else believe that he knew what he was doing then you are a dumbass and don't get to sue the people that saved your life.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Eh, you make a decent enough point. I wasn't really talking about roughing him up or anything just jumping in and attempting to rescue him which no one would call brutality. I didn't time how long he was under but it sure seemed like a really long time, I guess that could be because I was watching with the expectation of something happening. I do wonder why there were so many cops, particularly standing around the side of the pool he was in?

All that said, if I was on a jury for the lawsuit I wouldn't award this guy a dime. He put himself in danger while making everyone else believe that he knew what he was doing then you are a dumbass and don't get to sue the people that saved your life.

I don't blame anybody for not jumping into deep water to rescue somebody that is likely to drown you along with him. Once he was off dry land, waiting for him to drown was probably the safest option for everybody*. Like you though, I don't get why they waited 2+ minutes to pull him out. He likely passed out well before that.

*Except perhaps for the guy drowning.

 

[interchange]

All that said, if I was on a jury for the lawsuit I wouldn't award this guy a dime. He put himself in danger while making everyone else believe that he knew what he was doing then you are a dumbass and don't get to sue the people that saved your life.

I am curious as to why you draw this conclusion. I don't see any contention in this article that the man as to his actions relating to severe mental illness. Why is it that you are certain he was in control of his actions and appreciative of reality as others saw? I think calling the police and the police to entering the pool and surrounding him were clear indication that they did not believe his claims that he was a lifeguard. I cannot state based on the evidence to what degree he was competent and to what degree he was in touch with reality; even if I had sufficient evidence, it would not be ethical to render such an opinion. However, I can say that, as a psychiatrist, bipolar disorder is a potentially devastatingly debilitating mental illness wherein people can become extremely psychotic. Society has a real problem with stigmatizing mental illness, and it's quite often we fail to realize our contributions to it with statements like these.