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Pontiac Fiero 3800 Supercharged *PICS*

Analog

Lifer
A guy that I work with created this 'work of art' Fiero. 3800 supercharged, awesome.

PICS

SPECS


Interestingly enough, since he used a FWD drive train 3800 (from a Bonny), when it was dropped in the rear drive Fiero, the only clue that something isn't quite as it should be (since he did a superb job) is that the 3800 is upside down - since it was made to be read from the front, not the back.


I've seen cobbled V8 Fieros, but they generally look like someone needed an angle grinder and angle iron to make it work right, and remove the small Fiero trunk to make it fit. This 3800, fit really nicely, and looks very professional. The guy who did it runs an IT department for a fortune 500 company.
 
Originally posted by: Magnum375
What defines 'supercharged', is it something to do with forcing more air into the engine ?

From Here

The intention with this thread is to shed some light on the theories behind supercharging the modern engine, and the wonderful advantages it gives us in both speed and basic engine design issues. This post is also to try and give people a better understanding of supercharger systems and how they work to make such a simple thing as an engine even simpler (speaking in terms of tuning). I personally am tired of seeing people bicker over the differences between the two basic designs, and would like everyone to note the vast similarities among them instead. So without further delay... I will start with this simple statement:

"It makes no sense to build a naturally aspirated engine if what you are looking for is good power output."

To understand why this is so obviously true, we need to break the concept of an engine down into its simplest parts. There are 4 main parts to an engine that concern airflow:
-the induction system
-the cylinder head(s)
-the exhaust system
-the camshaft(s)

Now if you think of the engine in terms of airflow and forget about fuel for a minute, it becomes a very simple matter really. What we want to do is best flow air through the cylinder head, from the induction system to the exhaust system and then out into the world again. This is best & most naturally accomplished by pressure variation, because as almost anyone with a high school education knows, air naturally flows from areas of higher concentration (pressure) to lower concentration (pressure). Now let's assume for a minute that we are talking about an engine at or near sea level, well we can just forgo the exact physics of things and say that at both the induction system's inlet & the exhaust's outlet we have equal pressure (just under 15psi absolute pressure). So in order to flow air into this system we must always be working a balancing act between the three fundamental sections of the engine, which are exposed to each other only through the camshaft's orchestration of the valves. So forget everything else you know about engines and start thinking of what's under your hood in this way for the rest of this post 🙂.

NA ENGINES (naturally aspirated)
These must work within a maximum pressure variation of 0psi (which is really hard to create without massive pumping losses) and 14.7psi (maximum atmospheric pressure @ sea level). To add to the basic problem of how to flow air into and out-of this system, both ends of the system start out at the same pressure, meaning air doesn't naturally want to go IN or OUT. This can be accurately termed as a ?pain in the ass?. Now engineers and enthusiasts alike have long been fascinated with how to make power from this setup, but I am talking specifically about supercharged engines here, and as I already stated "It makes no sense to build a naturally aspirated engine if what you are looking for is good power output." So forget about how you can best accomplish this through piston movement and it's effects on cylinder pressures, and understand that it's just a whole lot easier to get an engine to work if it's supercharged.

FI ENGINES (forced induction)
From a pure engine design standpoint, it makes MUCH more sense to pressurize the intake system than to run NA. When only the intake system is running under pressure well above atmospheric, it becomes perfectly obvious that air is going to want to flow through the engine exactly the way we want it to, and both cam timing & exhaust sizing becomes much less important to getting the system to work right (as it was before in NA setup). The air will naturally want to flow into the cylinder head, and then after the very strong power stroke (thanks to all that air) it will naturally want to flow out into the lower pressure exhaust system afterwards. Everything in the engine will be working at pressure above atmospheric and the pressure differences will be greatest in the induction system, so all air will want to exit out the tail pipe quickly and efficiently. One other thing should be said here: turbos technically ARE superchargers. A supercharger is ANY device that pressurizes the intake to above atmospheric pressure, and turbos do this exactly like superchargers do. The only difference is in how a turbo gets the energy necessary to perform it's job, and also that the turbo contributes to supercharging the exhaust system (or more accurately a portion of it, the exhaust manifold).

THE CASE FOR SUPERCHARGING
Since a crank driven s/c (s/c = supercharger) is what people are normally talking about when they use the term supercharger, I will no longer say "crank driven" to make the distinction between it and a turbo. Now using a supercharger makes a ton of sense simply because it only has a direct effect in pressurizing the engine on the side we want it to, the induction side. Since pressures will always be higher here than in any other part of the system (except of course during the engine's power stroke, but that's always sealed off from the rest of the system so we can forget about that complexity), it's very easy to make this combination a powerful one. NA engines often use large amounts of valve overlap to get the whole system to work properly at higher RPM, which has obvious drawbacks in that it's possible for the intake system and exhaust systems to interact in a negative way (since they operate at similar pressures). It's sometimes just as easy to get air flowing backwards through the system as it is to go forwards in an NA setup, which is one reason camshaft choice is so important to where in the RPM band best power will be produced. And here is where the beauty of supercharging is; neither valve overlap amounts nor perfect exhaust system designs are completely essential to keep everything flowing in the right direction. No matter how long the exhaust is exposed to the intake system through valve overlap, air should NEVER pass backwards through the system unless the supercharger stops working.

THE EVIL OF SUPERCHARGING
The evil of supercharging is that some of the power we finally get from combusting the air/fuel mixture must go back into powering the supercharger. So here we have designed this whole system that works so well, yet we have to power it with some of our hard earned torque. This is not a good thing, but then again nothing so simple is ever going to come for free. Do superchargers work? Of course they do, which is why many racing engine uses the technology unless the rules prohibit it. The net result is more total power from the system, but a portion of this power must be sapped from our output to make it all work.

THE CASE FOR TURBOCHARGING
This section is easy to write, because it's exactly the same thing as the supercharger portion. We have all of the same advantages, except for one major benefit. That benefit is that turbocharging runs off what is largely wasted energy, so that damn drawback of needing to power the system with some of our hard earned torque is removed. In this way, a turbocharger addresses the one main drawback to using a supercharger, but as you will see in a second the supercharger addresses the one main drawback of turbocharging.

THE EVIL OF TURBOCHARGING
Hopefully you now understand why it makes so much sense to forgo designing engines for NA use and just supercharge the sucker instead, at least when we are talking about how to best make power. And if you have been following what I have said, you will also understand the bad effect turbos have on our little perfect world of pressure variation.
A turbo is an ingenious little design that harnesses the wasted kinetic energy we dump out through the exhaust system to actually force more air into the engine. This is good for the same reasons that supercharging is good, but it has one major drawback: it of course increases the pressure within a portion of the exhaust system. While turbocharging a motor increases the amount of air that can be flowed into it, it has a negative effect on how easily we can flow it back out again. This weakens our positive pressure difference between these two fundamental sides of the engine, and causes both cam timing & exhaust system design to again become extremely important to making good power. This is most certainly not a good thing, but can a turbo overcome this drawback with the other inherent good it possesses? It certainly seems so, because in most current forms of racing where the rules don?t probihit the use of tubos or slap restrictions on their use, the turbo reigns supreme in terms of engine power output.
 
Originally posted by: Magnum375
What defines 'supercharged', is it something to do with forcing more air into the engine ?

Yes - a compressor driven by the crank as opposed to the exhaust which is what a Turbo does.
 
Originally posted by: bernse
Originally posted by: Magnum375
What defines 'supercharged', is it something to do with forcing more air into the engine ?
Yes - a compressor driven by the crank as opposed to the exhaust which is what a Turbo does.
Wrong. A turbo is a subset of supercharger. The proper name for what is colloquially called a "turbo" is, "turbine-driven supercharger", which was shortened to "turbo supercharger" and later to just "turbo".

ZV
 
Originally posted by: FrustratedUser
Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
very nice, now if only i could smack one of those things in my GF's Buick 😀

Some Buicks came with it so it should be easier to do.
What model does she have?


a 95 Regal GS, has the 3800 already in it just no supercharger.
Her stepmom's Riviera has the supercharger, its a blast to drive 😀


CrackRabbit
 
Ahhh...the Fiero. Pontiac finally comes up with an innovative car design, markets it to the COMPLETELY wrong people, never makes a convertible, and doesn't put a decent engine in it until it's last year of production. They could have had a gem there. At least they're popular for kit cars and these types of projects now. Someone around here turns them into Shelby Cobras for $15000. Puts a Ford 350 in them and everything. Really sharp 😉
 
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