Pompeo meets with Kim Jong Un

[IJTSSG]

Has anyone this high up in our government ever met with the leader of NK? Until Trump and Un actually meet I'll remain skeptical but it looks like it might actually happen.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/17/politics/mike-pompeo-kim-jong-un-visit/index.html

 

[FIVR]

USA lost so much prestige under Trump we are now negotiating to speak to 30 year old tyrant leaders of tiny peninsular countries with populations smaller than greater los angeles.



I can't imagine how much further we will fall before we are rid of Trump

 

[Jhhnn]

State Dept? What's that?

 

[trenchfoot]

State Dept? What's that?

Trump don't need no stink'in State Dept. In fact he don't need anybody because they just get in his way by saying things he told them to say when he's changed his mind right after he said it and a few more times after that.

 

[IJTSSG]

Isn't Pompeo the SoS nominee?

 

[Jhhnn]

Isn't Pompeo the SoS nominee?

So what? He has not been confirmed by the Senate to serve the people in that capacity.

 

[IJTSSG]

So what? He has not been confirmed by the Senate to serve the people in that capacity.

You're right. Sending the guy you've just nominated to be the nations top diplomat on a diplomatic mission is just about the stupidest thing you could do. The whole thing is now completely fvcked.

 

[Jhhnn]

You're right. Sending the guy you've just nominated to be the nations top diplomat on a diplomatic mission is just about the stupidest thing you could do. The whole thing is now completely fvcked.

Please. Pompeo & the CIA have no idea how to put together a summit between Kim & Trump. None whatsoever. If we're lucky, there might be somebody left in the State Dept who does if Pompeo ever gets there.

 

[zinfamous]

Isn't Pompeo the SoS nominee?

Doesn't matter, because he isn't the SoS. And the meeting happened over Easter weekend, when Rexxy was still on the job (his last day, I think). Any way you slice it, this maneuver is super sketchy. You definitely don't send an unvetted guy to do the job that he hasn't yet been approved by Congress to do--much less a historical meeting like this one.

Expect this to toss a grenade on his confirmation hearings. Congress critters don't like being overstepped like this, especially when they still maintain power over this guy and Trump in this matter, and especially as the repubs that might have a chance of supporting him are currently scampering away from this sinking ship that is the Trump GOP. A lot of these people actually still care about precedent and procedure, and certainly the power and duties assigned to them.

This maneuver is nothing more than a big fat "Fuck you all and fuck your laws, I'm Trump and I don't care about you so fuck you!" from King Cheetoh. Even if one of these guys supports him in general, this isn't tolerable from their perspective.

 

[K1052]

Has anyone this high up in our government ever met with the leader of NK?

yep

 

[IJTSSG]

Doesn't matter, because he isn't the SoS. And the meeting happened over Easter weekend, when Rexxy was still on the job (his last day, I think). Any way you slice it, this maneuver is super sketchy. You definitely don't send an unvetted guy to do the job that he hasn't yet been approved by Congress to do--much less a historical meeting like this one.

Expect this to toss a grenade on his confirmation hearings. Congress critters don't like being overstepped like this, especially when they still maintain power over this guy and Trump in this matter, and especially as the repubs that might have a chance of supporting him are currently scampering away from this sinking ship that is the Trump GOP. A lot of these people actually still care about precedent and procedure, and certainly the power and duties assigned to them.

This maneuver is nothing more than a big fat "Fuck you all and fuck your laws, I'm Trump and I don't care about you so fuck you!" from King Cheetoh. Even if one of these guys supports him in general, this isn't tolerable from their perspective.

I agree it doesn't matter that he isn't the SoS, he was the only person who has enough of a relationship with NK to go and meet with Kim. Enduring the kabuki dance known as vetting and confirmation doesn't make him any more or less qualified for the job. He either is or he isn't and he obviously is. There was nothing unprecedented or illegal about sending him over and apparently it was a successful trip. Anything else is just hyper-partisan bullsh!t.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Doesn't matter, because he isn't the SoS. And the meeting happened over Easter weekend, when Rexxy was still on the job (his last day, I think). Any way you slice it, this maneuver is super sketchy. You definitely don't send an unvetted guy to do the job that he hasn't yet been approved by Congress to do--much less a historical meeting like this one.

Expect this to toss a grenade on his confirmation hearings. Congress critters don't like being overstepped like this, especially when they still maintain power over this guy and Trump in this matter, and especially as the repubs that might have a chance of supporting him are currently scampering away from this sinking ship that is the Trump GOP. A lot of these people actually still care about precedent and procedure, and certainly the power and duties assigned to them.

This maneuver is nothing more than a big fat "Fuck you all and fuck your laws, I'm Trump and I don't care about you so fuck you!" from King Cheetoh. Even if one of these guys supports him in general, this isn't tolerable from their perspective.

Let's back up a bit. Pompeii should not have gone but it is in no way illegal nor unprecedented for those outside of the State Dept. to be a limited intermediary between nations. One extremely controversial person is someone you may remember, Armand Hammer. There is no illegality in any of this and now of all times, any rhetoric on our side needs to be based on reality as we find it, not as we would have. I don't know what impact this will have on the St Dept hearings but it could be interesting.

If Trump actually secures a reliable peace? Then I have to embrace that as an accomplishment too, although that entirely remains to be seen. Remember that old Vulcan proverb I mentioned earlier today "Only Nixon could go to China", but going to China didn't save him from any wrongdoing.

 

[K1052]

If Trump actually secures a reliable peace? Then I have to embrace that as an accomplishment too, although that entirely remains to be seen. Remember that old Vulcan proverb I mentioned earlier today "Only Nixon could go to China", but going to China didn't save him from any wrongdoing.

A deal is certainly achievable if one considers US power and influence in Asia a resource to be expended for political gain. SK wants relative security, Japan wants NK to stop flying missiles over their country, China wants power/prestige and to steadily purge Asia of our influence, and NK wants to ensure the long and prosperous reign of it's crazy dictatorship. Trump just wants a deal, probably any deal.

 

[IJTSSG]

Why

Let's back up a bit. Pompeii should not have gone but it is in no way illegal nor unprecedented for those outside of the State Dept. to be a limited intermediary between nations. One extremely controversial person is someone you may remember, Armand Hammer. There is no illegality in any of this and now of all times, any rhetoric on our side needs to be based on reality as we find it, not as we would have. I don't know what impact this will have on the St Dept hearings but it could be interesting.

If Trump actually secures a reliable peace? Then I have to embrace that as an accomplishment too, although that entirely remains to be seen. Remember that old Vulcan proverb I mentioned earlier today "Only Nixon could go to China", but going to China didn't save him from any wrongdoing.

Why shouldn't he have gone? It's a serious question and I really don't understand the criticism. According to the Times and the Post, he has developed a back channel relationship with NK through S. Korea and others. If there was an opportunity to advance the diplomatic process in some way by sending him why wouldn't we? Because he doesn't have the right title?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

A deal is certainly achievable if one considers US power and influence in Asia a resource to be expended for political gain. SK wants relative security, Japan wants NK to stop flying missiles over their country, China wants power/prestige and to steadily purge Asia of our influence, and NK wants to ensure the long and prosperous reign of it's crazy dictatorship. Trump just wants a deal, probably any deal.

It's always exclusively a matter of ego enhancement. Any deal may be what we get but it is possible that the best deal gives the best boost to his ego. If that happens? I'll take the deal. Something the Orange one doesn't understand, but if something is of significant benefit to all engaged in talks, then the importance of that to the US is far more important than any one President and to spite him in this hypothetical would be to cut our nose off. We have to be better than he is even if it hurts our pride or sensibilities.

 

[bshole]

Why

Why shouldn't he have gone? It's a serious question and I really don't understand the criticism. According to the Times and the Post, he has developed a back channel relationship with NK through S. Korea and others. If there was an opportunity to advance the diplomatic process in some way by sending him why wouldn't we? Because he doesn't have the right title?

According to al jazeera, this could be a ploy by Kim to get America to help him modernize his country. Read the article, it is very interesting. Kind of an indictment of the American news monolith that increasingly better journalism is found off shore.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/north-korea-changing-180418063201529.html

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Why

Why shouldn't he have gone? It's a serious question and I really don't understand the criticism. According to the Times and the Post, he has developed a back channel relationship with NK through S. Korea and others. If there was an opportunity to advance the diplomatic process in some way by sending him why wouldn't we? Because he doesn't have the right title?

It's more than "the right title", it's a case of proper empowerment. As an official of the State Department properly vetted and approved by Congress, a Sec of State has the full authority to act within his or her limits under the law to be an official representative of the US and make limited arrangements in our behalf. That person speaks as our collective voice by virtue of office. Pompeo was not and he could promise the moon, say he speaks for the US and for Trump, when he has no right to do any such thing. If a Sec screws up then that person is accountable. Pompeo has no responsibility, no ethical obligation, no lawful accountability. He's some guy that Trump could toss under the bus for not officially being in State.

It may turn out to be an incredibly beneficial meeting, but the dangers of something going wrong with no good remedy or possible action against the then perpetrator of an improper act is far too high.

 

[K1052]

It's always exclusively a matter of ego enhancement. Any deal may be what we get but it is possible that the best deal gives the best boost to his ego. If that happens? I'll take the deal. Something the Orange one doesn't understand, but if something is of significant benefit to all engaged in talks, then the importance of that to the US is far more important than any one President and to spite him in this hypothetical would be to cut our nose off. We have to be better than he is even if it hurts our pride or sensibilities.

I'm not sure that he's realized that the effect of his pressure has aligned interests in the region, at least for now, against the US. They don't all share the exact same interest but the roads all lead the the same place...pushing the US out. Whatever deal emerges I would expect to reflect that basic reality. Strategically I'm not sure how we can accomplish anything but a retreat at this point that gets defined as a victory for political purposes.

 

[K1052]

It's more than "the right title", it's a case of proper empowerment. As an official of the State Department properly vetted and approved by Congress, a Sec of State has the full authority to act within his or her limits under the law to be an official representative of the US and make limited arrangements in our behalf. That person speaks as our collective voice by virtue of office. Pompeo was not and he could promise the moon, say he speaks for the US and for Trump, when he has no right to do any such thing. If a Sec screws up then that person is accountable. Pompeo has no responsibility, no ethical obligation, no lawful accountability. He's some guy that Trump could toss under the bus for not officially being in State.

It may turn out to be an incredibly beneficial meeting, but the dangers of something going wrong with no good remedy or possible action against the then perpetrator of an improper act is far too high.

It should be painfully evident by now that nobody speaks for the US except his great Orangeness so what's the difference in the end.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm not sure that he's realized that the effect of his pressure has aligned interests in the region, at least for now, against the US. They don't all share the exact same interest but the roads all lead the the same place...pushing the US out. Whatever deal emerges I would expect to reflect that basic reality. Strategically I'm not sure how we can accomplish anything but a retreat at this point that gets defined as a victory for political purposes.

Perhaps I should clarify. If we have an agreement which isn't harmful to us or our allies but prevents us from nuking each other I'd say that is a success. I should expect some give and take, not all beneficial in all respects and that is the art of the deal in diplomacy. Our qualifications to engage in the matter are admittedly lacking at the moment.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It should be painfully evident by now that nobody speaks for the US except his great Orangeness so what's the difference in the end.

I appreciate the irony in all of this but we are obliged to carry on in spite of the current Officeholder. Eventually, we will have someone less toxic and must not forget how things ought to work in spite of him.

 

[K1052]

Perhaps I should clarify. If we have an agreement which isn't harmful to us or our allies but prevents us from nuking each other I'd say that is a success. I should expect some give and take, not all beneficial in all respects and that is the art of the deal in diplomacy. Our qualifications to engage in the matter are admittedly lacking at the moment.

NK isn't going to nuke anybody unless nuked first. They whole point of their program is to leverage the US out of Korea (a goal China shares) and get favorable economic treatment while ensuring the survival of the regime. In this I think it's not to early to declare their strategy over us as likely successful.

 

[K1052]

I appreciate the irony in all of this but we are obliged to carry on in spite of the current Officeholder. Eventually, we will have someone less toxic and must not forget how things ought to work in spite of him.

No. We live here now.

 

[realibrad]

According to al jazeera, this could be a ploy by Kim to get America to help him modernize his country. Read the article, it is very interesting. Kind of an indictment of the American news monolith that increasingly better journalism is found off shore.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/north-korea-changing-180418063201529.html

Yeah well, doing that brings in the risk that people will start to like the good life, and not want to go back.

 

[IJTSSG]

It's more than "the right title", it's a case of proper empowerment. As an official of the State Department properly vetted and approved by Congress, a Sec of State has the full authority to act within his or her limits under the law to be an official representative of the US and make limited arrangements in our behalf. That person speaks as our collective voice by virtue of office. Pompeo was not and he could promise the moon, say he speaks for the US and for Trump, when he has no right to do any such thing. If a Sec screws up then that person is accountable. Pompeo has no responsibility, no ethical obligation, no lawful accountability. He's some guy that Trump could toss under the bus for not officially being in State.

It may turn out to be an incredibly beneficial meeting, but the dangers of something going wrong with no good remedy or possible action against the then perpetrator of an improper act is far too high.

I understand your point and had Pompeo gone over on his own and claimed to be a rep of the US when he wasn't then I would agree with you. The fact that the President knew about the meeting and apparently personally sent him over gives him, IMO, all the authority and creds that he needs.