Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
They're attacks are succeeding daily. The United States is divided and in chaos. Our rulers strip away the very fabric of America in a useless attempt to 'secure' us. Our youth have no hope, no direction but to serve themselves. People live in fear guided by a color chart. No explosive devices could do the damage our own fear has done. They're sitting somewhere, perfectly safe, drinking a caffeine free moccha and laughing at the ruination of the American dream.
You're either kidding or you don't have a clue about the US and the American way of life. The US is not any more divided than it ever has been but at least we are free to discuss and debate the issues openly. The US does not have "rulers" and your use of the term only shows your bias and points to the reason you made your post.
Realistically I am much more in danger from that young punk that was doing 90 on the highway than from any deluded reglious fantic that wants to kill Americans because Allah told him to.
Freedoms, I haven't given any up.
I seriously doubt that the religious fantatics are sitting somewhere calmly drinking their goat milk laced coffee, but if it makes you feel better to think of your friends like that than so be it.
Having made a serious study of history, I disagree with you. Certainly there has always been some division, you can't get 300million people on the same page. However the issues have become more serious and the division more heated. Religious progressivism vs religious freedom. Environmental protection vs business growth. Isolationism vs empirical aims. Safety vs freedom. Individual vs state. Poor vs rich. Now, all of these subjects have always had competitors, but what we've grown into is having all of those issues with one administration. The polarization I see in media, and on the streets, has pretty much drawn the lines between those that want one side of all those issues, and each of their opposing sides. In other words, it's pretty much the PNAC's and Neo-Cons against everyone else...and since the former are almost entirely in power, well, it's an angry and divided time. More importantly is what I see coming again from history. In many (if not most) failed civilizations these are many of the issues that led to obliteration. America was formed and prospered because it layed down protections against taking the wrong side in each of these areas. For the last 100 years, and especially since the 80's, we find our government pushing us to the other side of this teeter-totter, and historically speaking when it hits the ground the ride is over. Some people argue that times change and we need to change with them. BS. Times have always changed, but some truths always remain, and regardless times keep coming back around in a big circle. Greed corrupts. Individual freedoms are ALWAYS more important than state aims. The wealthy are not special and should have not a single right over the poor. Freedom provides safety, never the other way around. Empires cannot exist for long. These things have been demonstrated time and time again, proven to be true, proven to generate unrest and lead to eventual revolution or ruination of nations, but no one is heeding these warnings today, because everyone is so damn ego-centric that they believe they're different. Oh, things have never been like they are now. They didn't have my plans and my money and my strength. BS. This is just the same old dance steps to a different tune.
The US should not have rulers, it should have elected spokesman. However we most certainly are on a path to being ruled, a path started at least 80 years ago. Every time the administration finds a loophole to get their own aims implemented we become that much more subserviant to them. With every covert action taken in the name of 'national security' we become that much more ignorant to the truth and that much more unable to take an active role in government. We're being forced to give 100% trust and control to a select few and allow them to make all decisions without us even hearing about them, or being given a voice of dissent. That IS being ruled, as surely as any monarchy or dictatorship in history. It's like lawyers and judges who become congressmen...they charge lots of money to be able to buy their way into the legislature to pass laws that no one but lawyers can understand, so that no one can defend themselves so that lawyers can buy their way into legislature to make laws...etc...hell then the arrogant bastards even vote THEMSELVES RAISES. No, it's a self-perpetuating evil.
Not only are you more in danger from your punk, but your punk is the only one agencies have a reasonable chance to stop. All of the money, all the lives, all the campaigning and words...none of it will TRULY stop terrorism. It's an idea, and ideas don't die. We're spending all energy and resources other places, while one by one we're killed at home by drunk drivers and lunatic crackheads and robbers so desperate for the money to give their kids a chance they'll do anything to get it. You can not turn your eyes so fully to the world that you ignore those next door, and that's very nearly where we're headed. Let's fix ourselves first. If the world see's that we are actually working, then they'll want to emulate us and we can LEAD them to a better future, instead of bullying them into it. Right now, if I was another country, I'd be willing to the fight the US too, rather than let them bring us down with them.
You HAVE given up freedoms, you just don't care. You CAN NOT QUESTION that the government has more powers, it's fact. You just choose to believe that it's ok, that it doesn't affect you. Well, you may be right...for now. But there is no better explanation of what happens than the old 'then they came for me' piece (which I'll include at the end of my rant). The freedoms we have, including the ones that really DO matter to you, are a web interlaced so delicately that pulling any one thread could unravel it all. Freedom of speech can not exist if the freedom from seizure doesn't protect your pamphlets, or your website. Freedom to do anything is not guaranteed except by the right of the people to take arms in opposition to erosion of those rights. How many of the first 10 ammendments are currently infringed? #1 - 'freedom fries'? The link about the muslim football league? The pledge, faith based initiatives, fbi monitoring of gatherings? It may not be gone, but it's hurting badly. #2 - Making a comeback from near extinction to liberal fear and ignorance, but still not strong enough to guarantee what it should. #4 - Pretty much gone and done thanks to Patriot and subsequent legislation, although the recent smackdown of RIAA is a glimmer of hope. #5 - GONER. #6, #7, #8 - all out with number 5. #10 - pretty seriously infringed by overpowering rulers in federal electing whole courts of supremes to establish one rule. 80% of our rights, our most basic human rights, are gone or under attack. I don't care if you're remaining somehow untouched in all this, you have eyes, and a mind, and if you sit there and do nothing than you are as responsible for everything that happens as those that cause it directly.
While I would never condone the attacks on innocent people we have endured, I can not fault the subsequent actions. They're people standing up for what they believe no matter what, the same as I would do. It's going to get much MUCH worse, the more special interests interfeare, the more government tries to control...attacks will increase, they'll become more chaotic and unpredictable. Eventually they'll begin from inside as well, as citizens who see the end of the American way being threatened in the name of 'security', and they'll act. The tighter you squeeze, the more will ooze out around your hand, until it's enveloped. Force can not succeed, the current path will lead to destruction.
~In Germany they came first for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.
- Martin Niemöller
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