Poll- Which would you prefer in on the SCOTUS

[Hayabusa Rider]

Given a choice of these two scenarios:

 

[DaveSimmons]

After the GOP stole Obama's appointment and now display blatant hypocrisy by wanting to pick another member before midterms, the Supreme Court needs a left-leaning justice to maintain any kind of balance in representing the people. The GOP wants a tyranny of the minority at any cost.

There's no reason that the person chosen can't have "honest integrity" so: "why not both?"

(And: False dilemma is false.)

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

After the GOP stole Obama's appointment and now display blatant hypocrisy by wanting to pick another member before midterms, the Supreme Court needs a left-leaning justice to maintain any kind of balance in representing the people. The GOP wants a tyranny of the minority at any cost.

There's no reason that the person chosen can't have "honest integrity" so: "why not both?"

(And: False dilemma is false.)

I didn't state that this was the entire universe of possibilities but it is a test of what is more important to people. Look at the current SCOTUS situation and you'll see my hypothetical has a basis, a strong one at that, being played out right now.

 

[vi edit]

I say we blow the entire thing up and make an even number of judges appointed by each side of the isle. The President gets to nominate a 5th for the duration of his presidency. Stop turning this into a political winner take all battle. My 10 year old shouldn't be punished in her 40's by appointments made today.

I'm seeing advertisements on TV telling me to support the nomination of Gorsuch and Kavanaugh FFS. This is not normal.

 

[rise]

If its one or the other, do or die, I'd take the latter.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I didn't state that this was the entire universe of possibilities but it is a test of what is more important to people. Look at the current SCOTUS situation and you'll see my hypothetical has a basis, a strong one at that, being played out right now.

7 ultra-right-wing justices might have integrity, but they will still be able to interpret the law to ban abortion, favor corporations over citizens more strongly than ever, dismantle environmental protections, favor Christianity over other religions and non-believers, and so on.

I don't think integrity is the problem with the confirmation process, an unbalanced court put there through unethical means is the problem.

 

[UNCjigga]

I for one am sick of conservatives blaming liberals for politicizing the judicial branch when, time and again, they've been the worst offenders of that charge. Oh, I'm sorry, did Bork's confirmation hearings get too political for you? Why the fvck did you nominate him in the first place?

edit: Everyone should listen to Sen. Whitehouse's takedown of "The Roberts Five" from his opening remarks at the Kavanaugh hearing today.

 

[K1052]

I say we blow the entire thing up and make an even number of judges appointed by each side of the isle. The President gets to nominate a 5th for the duration of his presidency. Stop turning this into a political winner take all battle. My 10 year old shouldn't be punished in her 40's by appointments made today.

I'm seeing advertisements on TV telling me to support the nomination of Gorsuch and Kavanaugh FFS. This is not normal.

I think there is a good case to get rid of lifetime appointments to the fed judiciary entirely. They encourage a lot of bad political behavior.

 

[crashtech]

Since there is no longer such a thing as non-ideological judicial appointments, I wish for as close a balance as possible. A slight conservative bias, as long as it remains slight, does not bother me, since the purpose of the Court is to interpret the Constitution, not to legislate. Social progress is best achieved through the amendment process, not through ever more tortuous interpretations of existing law.

 

[vi edit]

My problem with "conservative" leaning is that at the time of the Constitution I don't think Corporate America had nearly as much influence then as it does now. Now "conservative" means fuck the poor and working class. Gotta keep my handlers happy. The interpretation of laws can be a very bad thing for citizens while being very good for corporations. That's not the intent of what the founders had.

 

[zinfamous]

my ideology is basically aligned with honesty and integrity. poll is confusing for me.

 

[thraashman]

my ideology is basically aligned with honesty and integrity. poll is confusing for me.

This is essentially what I was gonna say.

 

[Younigue]

my ideology is basically aligned with honesty and integrity. poll is confusing for me.

I've never been more aware that my ideology is so very far from those who would differentiate between ideology and integrity/honesty.

The Trump Era has shown a glaring light on my naivety. It certainly prevented any confusion I might have previously had with the OP's poll question.

 

[crashtech]

The danger of extreme ideology is well illustrated in this thread. Ideologues tend to believe that their personal truth is the sole self-evident truth. It's like dealing with religious zealots in many ways.

 

[zinfamous]

The danger of extreme ideology is well illustrated in this thread. Ideologues tend to believe that their personal truth is the sole self-evident truth. It's like dealing with religious zealots in many ways.

It's true. For me, honesty and integrity are only really put to the test when you are challenged and can admit your errors, that you claimed something that is evidently false, and can readjust your thinking based on gained knowledge.

 

[crashtech]

It's true. For me, honesty and integrity are only really put to the test when you are challenged and can admit your errors, that you claimed something that is evidently false, and can readjust your thinking based on gained knowledge.

Therefore, honesty and integrity can and do exist independently of ideology, yet I would challenge you to find anyone who is "ideology-free." It's simply a consequence of fitting one's approach to life into political awareness.

 

[BurnItDwn]

I want a rational person who can try to see things from all possible points of view and who will attempt to make the the best decisions based upon their interpretation of the constitution. I want somebody who can explain the reason for why they voted one way or another, and for their explanation to be rooted in reason. I want somebody who is as close to 100% honest and transparent as possible.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Both sides want their ideologues on the bench. If Hillary had won, do you people actually think she wouldn't appoint left-leaning ideologues? Get real. We get the government we deserve. We're a polarized country, so we get a polarized SCOTUS. No one cares about the constitution anymore. Rah. Go team.

 

[Younigue]

The danger of extreme ideology is well illustrated in this thread. Ideologues tend to believe that their personal truth is the sole self-evident truth. It's like dealing with religious zealots in many ways.

Well, the left doesn't and won't appoint a cult leader/God.

 

[Younigue]

Both sides want their ideologues on the bench. If Hillary had won, do you people actually think she wouldn't appoint left-leaning ideologues? Get real. We get the government we deserve. We're a polarized country, so we get a polarized SCOTUS. No one cares about the constitution anymore. Rah. Go team.

Of course she would have but she is at least more conservative than probably the vast majority of her voters. She is also smarter and more level headed than the "blonde" abomination currently in office. I think those things matter. The right rejected the very idea of it. Choosing instead mentally ill over rational thought process.

 

[hal2kilo]

If congress would do their job and actually stick their necks out, take a stand, and legislate, these decisions would not be so important. But, the SCOTUS has been turned into something it never was envisioned for, serving as cover for a group of fools who main purpose is to keep their jobs.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I've never been more aware that my ideology is so very far from those who would differentiate between ideology and integrity/honesty.

The Trump Era has shown a glaring light on my naivety. It certainly prevented any confusion I might have previously had with the OP's poll question.

People have more than I can ever recall seem eager for a Faustian bargain. Look at the Evangelicals who really do want to prevent abortion and at least in principle adultery and the like is an issue. But they will deny their supposed ethics and morals over Trump simply because he promises to promote their agenda. Accept evil from him and get political results they favor.

Likewise people may say "this is my core ideology and this guy supports my agenda" Of course he may be despotic, criminal, whatever, and we wouldn't have him near our children but for all that he can be used.

That's the basis for the question. What is the promotion of one's ideology worth? Or less eloquently "I am against prostituting oneself, but who do I have to fuck to get a role in this film".

 

[crashtech]

Well, the left doesn't and won't appoint a cult leader/God.

I'm not sure how to address this other than to say that not all right-leaning people even believe in a god, and even of those who do, most recognize that there are strict Constitutional limits on such things.

 

[Indus]

Maybe we need to disempower the federal government and, let states rule themselves, decide for themselves what they want in education, healthcare, immigration, taxes.

And the federal income tax amendment needs to be repealed. Fuck em.

 

[Younigue]

People have more than I can ever recall seem eager for a Faustian bargain. Look at the Evangelicals who really do want to prevent abortion and at least in principle adultery and the like is an issue. But they will deny their supposed ethics and morals over Trump simply because he promises to promote their agenda. Accept evil from him and get political results they favor.

Likewise people may say "this is my core ideology and this guy supports my agenda" Of course he may be despotic, criminal, whatever, and we wouldn't have him near our children but for all that he can be used.

That's the basis for the question. What is the promotion of one's ideology worth? Or less eloquently "I am against prostituting oneself, but who do I have to fuck to get a role in this film".

The bargaining does seem more extreme but that's because it is.

As a people we normalized politicians selling their souls believing that ultimately they would still answer to their constituents. That appears to be a dying concept and the Trumpers are accepting it for exactly the reasons you mentioned. In the case of the Evangelicals... Well hell even the supremacists, they don't care or even need Trump to agree with them fundamentally as long as their agendas get pushed through no matter the methods... Including selling their own souls.

I started writing a story (3 or 4 years ago) about a world where there were too few souls to go around. In my story souls were shared (I never finished the story because I got stuck). I think we're currently living in a world where there are too few souls to go around and we haven't figured out how to share them. And yeah, I'm left so I'm confident it's the Trumpers that wound up soulless.