[Poll] When will the U.S. economy stop losing jobs each month?

[rudder]

Originally posted by: First

Originally posted by: Ozoned
By some estimates, there are 10,000,000 people living in the united states illegally. Get rid of them, problem solved.

What's sad is that you actually believe this.

Very sad indeed. The number is probably closer to 20 million.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

I think we need to START firing up our steel plants and bring back the industry. We need to start making clothing in AMERICA like Lee, Levis, etc...etc....etc... We need to bring back names like Stanley, RubberMaid, RCA, Zenith, etc...etc... And start making things in America again.

Yes, but HOW?! Everyone says the US needs to manufacture more, but HOW IS IT GOING TO DO IT? Unless everything else is tariffed US manufacturers cannot compete, which is why they are moving offshore to begin with.

In 2007 the U.S. accounted for nearly 1/4 of the worlds manufacturing output valued in dollars. The U.S. has transferred most of our low skilled manufacturing jobs to other countries. There is just no way to compete with labor costs on these products. Since the U.S. tops the charts in regards to dollar values of manufactured goods, this is mean the U.S. produces a lot of high value goods... heavy machinery for example. The problem is that manufacturers can produce more with less people now than say 20-30 years ago. If you look at statistics you will see the value of manufactured goods in the U.S. rising every year.... but the number of workers decreasing. I don't know if that could ever be reversed. I wonder if we will ever see unemployment below 6% again.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: boomerangFor those of you in school, when you graduate with high debt and no job, with a requirement to pay into a health care system that statistically you won't need for decades, when you're paying higher utility costs to line the pockets of the rich, think hard about who you want to represent you in Washington. Your future will depend on it.

I imagine right now you're still in the romantic phase of your relationship with this administration. I'm thinking that will change.

Who do you recommend that people vote for? The <laugh> Republicans who played a large role in getting us into this mess in the first place?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: rudderIn 2007 the U.S. accounted for nearly 1/4 of the worlds manufacturing output valued in dollars. The U.S. has transferred most of our low skilled manufacturing jobs to other countries. There is just no way to compete with labor costs on these products. Since the U.S. tops the charts in regards to dollar values of manufactured goods, this is mean the U.S. produces a lot of high value goods... heavy machinery for example. The problem is that manufacturers can produce more with less people now than say 20-30 years ago. If you look at statistics you will see the value of manufactured goods in the U.S. rising every year.... but the number of workers decreasing. I don't know if that could ever be reversed. I wonder if we will ever see unemployment below 6% again.

Do those statistics about how much the U.S. manufactures count manufacturing overseas as "American manufacturing" if the factories that are doing the manufacturing are owned by American companies? (It's been reported that GDP statistics have been similarly skewed in these regards.) That statistic just doesn't seem to pass the smell test. When was the last time you purchased a television or computer monitor that was manufactured in the U.S.? Does that statistic count food preparation as "manufacturing"? ("Customer would like to take delivery of two double burgers with cheese, please manufacture accordingly.")

Regardless, the key issues to measure are our nation's trade deficit (showing that the rest of the world purchases less of our stuff than we purchase of theirs) and also the number of jobs being done in the U.S. by people with foreign citizenship and by immigrants.

I doubt that increased productivity and technological advance is the driving force of our nation's unemployment problems. Technological advance and resultant productivity increase have happened before in this country without causing an economic depression. (The switch from candles to light bulbs, the switch from buggy-making to automobiles, the implementation of the assembly line, etc.) In a closed market without international trade, a real productivity increase-not people working longer hours--but a technology-driven productivity increase resulting in more wealth produced per unit of human effort--should result in lower prices for the product and more money available to spent elsewhere, increasing everyone's wealth. That's not the case with global labor arbitrage which is not a real productivity increase by rather a shifting of wealth.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: boomerang
The administration is pushing for the media to be under the full control of the state. They've got nearly every cable news channel and we all know who they're putting the pressure on now. Mark Lloyd (our FCC diversity czar) has more or less publicly declared his plan to silence talk radio. Excuse me, talk radio that doesn't agree with the administration. He'll be following some guidelines most recently laid out by his pal and mentor Hugo Chavez. Just today the administration has made a suggestion that the newspapers will need a bail out. Just as they control a number of corporations in America, they will control the print media also. This shouldn't be too difficult as much of the print media is right now printing what they're told to. They're in a hell of a struggle to survive and will surely roll over for this administration. Net neutrality which will be voted on tomorrow is thought by some to be the opening salvo on a bid to control the internet. Once they control the media, they can of course put out whatever type of doublespeak they desire. So yes, they will cease to report and will instead tell of us of the continuing increase in employment. It will be false, but many will eat it up as long as the cheese keeps coming.

The rest of the world will determine when our economy fails. There is no end to the borrowing this administration is willing to take on. Eventually the well will run dry. With no borrowed money available to pay the interest on borrowed money, and no borrowed money available to buy our own debt (yes we've done that) the results are predictable. Part of the plan? Could be.

Heavy pressure will be put on Democratic members of Congress to tow the line and move and think in unison. Those that won't will find out what happens when Chicago style political 'justice' moves to DC. It will be swift and thorough.

Obama told the world that he would fundamentally transform the United States of America

Well it's happening. So far, I don't like it so much.

Do you really think that Obama craves a Soviet or Chinese-style totalitarianism? I think these concerns are just overblown sensationalism coming from the Republican side. (As though the Republicans don't want to dictate to the American people themselves, such as telling people what they can and cannot do in their own bedrooms and at abortion clinics.)

The Republicans' strategy is to rile up their sheeple with concerns about Obama's birth certificate and these alleged communist takeovers so that they'll completely ignore the nation's economic issues and the Republican's abject failure to manage the nation's economic policies properly. It sounds like you're falling for it hook, line, and sinker.

 

[dmcowen674]

Many cities are already experiencing unprecedented blood bath in the streets.

They are trying to pass it off as gang violence but it not just gangs.

The beginnings of the new Revolution is already here.

 

[Athena]

Originally posted by: peonyu
We really need a better immigration system, its part of the problem. Our system barely scales with supply and demand, its for the most part a set in stone number for how many are legally allowed in a year [and when changed its usually increased the numbers and not down]...It doesnt take into account that if theres half a million people already unemployed and jobless here, that adding two million more people from immigration just makes it worse.

I agree. Our immigration problem is much bigger than "illegals"; the policy for legal immigration is dysfunctional. The current family reunification policy is essentially an endorsement of unrestricted legal immigration of low-skilled workers. People act as though it's always been the foundation of our immigration policy when it in fact it's a relatively recent phenomenon. And like so many things in Congress, its effect was grossly underestimated when it was passed.

Immigration policy should reflect the needs of the country. When you hear legislators talk though, they are interested in everything but the overall economy.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: rudderIn 2007 the U.S. accounted for nearly 1/4 of the worlds manufacturing output valued in dollars. The U.S. has transferred most of our low skilled manufacturing jobs to other countries. There is just no way to compete with labor costs on these products. Since the U.S. tops the charts in regards to dollar values of manufactured goods, this is mean the U.S. produces a lot of high value goods... heavy machinery for example. The problem is that manufacturers can produce more with less people now than say 20-30 years ago. If you look at statistics you will see the value of manufactured goods in the U.S. rising every year.... but the number of workers decreasing. I don't know if that could ever be reversed. I wonder if we will ever see unemployment below 6% again.

Do those statistics about how much the U.S. manufactures count manufacturing overseas as "American manufacturing" if the factories that are doing the manufacturing are owned by American companies? (It's been reported that GDP statistics have been similarly skewed in these regards.) That statistic just doesn't seem to pass the smell test. When was the last time you purchased a television or computer monitor that was manufactured in the U.S.? Does that statistic count food preparation as "manufacturing"? ("Customer would like to take delivery of two double burgers with cheese, please manufacture accordingly.")

That value is given in dollars not quantity of manufactured goods shipped. How many TV's would it take to equal the price of one Boeing 777? Simply put the U.S. manufactures more high dollar items than any other nation. Now China is clearly the leader in number of goods manufactuered... hell one factory can output 10 million bra clasps a month.

Some research citing United Nations Development Organization data.

 

[miketheidiot]

voted 6 months 8 months


anyways the long run solution to american competitiveness is the following, and is very simple:

fix education
fix healthcare
fix infrastructure

thats like 75% of the problem, mostly the first two.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: boomerangFor those of you in school, when you graduate with high debt and no job, with a requirement to pay into a health care system that statistically you won't need for decades, when you're paying higher utility costs to line the pockets of the rich, think hard about who you want to represent you in Washington. Your future will depend on it.

I imagine right now you're still in the romantic phase of your relationship with this administration. I'm thinking that will change.

Who do you recommend that people vote for? The <laugh> Republicans who played a large role in getting us into this mess in the first place?

I don't have the answer to that one. Typically Americans vote for the party opposite of the one that has the dick in their ass.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
voted 6 months 8 months


anyways the long run solution to american competitiveness is the following, and is very simple:

fix education
fix healthcare
fix infrastructure

thats like 75% of the problem, mostly the first two.

Except you have to increase tax revenues (or cut spending in other areas) in order to do those three things... particularly if you are considering UHC.

The school district in which my wife teaches has been hit hard by the coming loss of the GM plant. A lot of supplier jobs will be lost. The county cannot even afford enough for books.

 

[KK]

But but but, I thought Obama was going to take care of all this shit? Oh yeah, he did, increase the debt by how many percent? I hope he fucks this country up so bad, it's what we deserve for electing this POS into office, of course we won't learn anything from it as the left wackos are so hell bent on blaming the republicans. Both parties need to be abolished.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: boomerang
The administration is pushing for the media to be under the full control of the state. They've got nearly every cable news channel and we all know who they're putting the pressure on now. Mark Lloyd (our FCC diversity czar) has more or less publicly declared his plan to silence talk radio. Excuse me, talk radio that doesn't agree with the administration. He'll be following some guidelines most recently laid out by his pal and mentor Hugo Chavez. Just today the administration has made a suggestion that the newspapers will need a bail out. Just as they control a number of corporations in America, they will control the print media also. This shouldn't be too difficult as much of the print media is right now printing what they're told to. They're in a hell of a struggle to survive and will surely roll over for this administration. Net neutrality which will be voted on tomorrow is thought by some to be the opening salvo on a bid to control the internet. Once they control the media, they can of course put out whatever type of doublespeak they desire. So yes, they will cease to report and will instead tell of us of the continuing increase in employment. It will be false, but many will eat it up as long as the cheese keeps coming.

The rest of the world will determine when our economy fails. There is no end to the borrowing this administration is willing to take on. Eventually the well will run dry. With no borrowed money available to pay the interest on borrowed money, and no borrowed money available to buy our own debt (yes we've done that) the results are predictable. Part of the plan? Could be.

Heavy pressure will be put on Democratic members of Congress to tow the line and move and think in unison. Those that won't will find out what happens when Chicago style political 'justice' moves to DC. It will be swift and thorough.

Obama told the world that he would fundamentally transform the United States of America

Well it's happening. So far, I don't like it so much.

Do you really think that Obama craves a Soviet or Chinese-style totalitarianism? I think these concerns are just overblown sensationalism coming from the Republican side. (As though the Republicans don't want to dictate to the American people themselves, such as telling people what they can and cannot do in their own bedrooms and at abortion clinics.)

The Republicans' strategy is to rile up their sheeple with concerns about Obama's birth certificate and these alleged communist takeovers so that they'll completely ignore the nation's economic issues and the Republican's abject failure to manage the nation's economic policies properly. It sounds like you're falling for it hook, line, and sinker.

Do I believe them? Not with every fiber of my being. But I was raised in some manner that makes me question everything. It makes me try to extrapolate out things I see happening in my world to their possible or logical conclusions. My feelings are based on the type of people the man has surrounded himself with. When there is written word and or audio of his closest advisor's praising alternative forms of government, praising the leaders of countries like Venezuela leaders like Chairman Mao and the like, I find these things compelling. Remember not rumor or innuendo, undeniable truths.

I've said it here several times before and if the search here worked worth a shit, you could probably find my statements. If it walks like a duck, etc. The administration has hired people that walk and act like ducks. The question is are they truly ducks?

You misunderstand me to some degree. It seems to be a common practice here. You've assumed I lean Republican. I don't. Several of those online tests you can do to determine your political leanings consistently label me a centrist on the left end of the spectrum. I'm sure that in my youth I was far right. I've mellowed as I age. I hated the debt Bush took on. I hated the Iraq war. I felt then as I feel now that he did this for one reason only - to redeem the legacy of his father - his father having said that his one regret was not dealing with Saddam Hussein. What bull shit. I hated the intrusion in our lives that was called the Patriot Act.

I call them as I see them. I suppose everyone does that. But I cannot support what this administration is doing in light of the people that he has surrounded himself with and the potential for a total transformation of this country. If I thought it would be better for this country perhaps I could embrace it. These ways of governance have been tried numerous times before. They fail every time. There aren't enough rich folk to keep it going. It's like a reverse pyramid scheme.

So yes, I do feel to use your words, that Obama does favor "Soviet or Chinese-style totalitarianism" or at the very least something similar. He has surrounded himself with people who embrace the lifestyle and ideals with open arms. Some of the things I was taught as a child I now realize were very sage advice. You're judged by the company you keep" comes to mind here. He gives a good speech. He can elicit a very positive response from me. But I keep coming back to his associations. I just can't reconcile that.

I'm not as well educated as many people here. I struggle putting my thoughts into writing. My friends have learned to read my facial expressions to understand my true thoughts and meanings. Because of that, I have a hard time conveying my thoughts and opinions. I often come off as very condescending. I appreciate your approaching me in a civil manner and actually having a discussion. It's better than all the blatant partisanship here.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: rudder
That value is given in dollars not quantity of manufactured goods shipped. How many TV's would it take to equal the price of one Boeing 777? Simply put the U.S. manufactures more high dollar items than any other nation. Now China is clearly the leader in number of goods manufactuered... hell one factory can output 10 million bra clasps a month.

How do you explain the existence of our nation's huge trade deficit? It would appear that we're not manufacturing as much as we're consuming and that other nation's aren't purchasing our labor as much as we're purchasing theirs.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

anyways the long run solution to american competitiveness is the following, and is very simple:

fix education
fix healthcare
fix infrastructure

thats like 75% of the problem, mostly the first two.

How is more and better education going to allow Americans to compete with impoverished Indians and Chinese? How do you compete against fifty cents an hour and no environmental or labor regulations?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

OK Boomerang, fair enough. You do have a good point with regards to judging a president based on the people he surrounds himself with and associates with.

 

[peonyu]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
By some estimates, there are 10,000,000 people living in the united states illegally. Get rid of them, problem solved.

The official quote is 12million illegals, but that number is from the late 1990s. Its still flung around as "the" number of illegals since its smaller than what the real number likely is...Highest estimate ive heard of is 30 million illegals [in 2009]. Its probably somewhere inbetween, I wouldnt doubt if its more around 25 million.