Poll shows many Europeans do not support providing military aid to a fellow NATO ally

[Fern]

-snip-
The French army rivaled the Germans in manpower and material, it was lack of leadership and a commitment to WWI-style defensive warfare that defeated them, and a general reluctance for war. There are accounts of French officers allowing Germans to play soccer within visual range of their guns.

From what I've heard France had no appetite to revisit another WW and decided their troops would not fight unless France itself was attacked. I.e., no leaving French soil and defensive posture only. They stuck with this to the point of absurdity and paid for it. They let the Germans amass across their border and built the super high tech, but static, Maginot line. Germany just went around it.

IMO, a powerful example of why not fighting until your own territory is invaded can be a very, very bad idea.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Russia can't even control pro-Russian separatists in Lugansk and Donetsk in Ukraine. It's a paper tiger.

Yeah, looks like it. For some time Euro news sites have been claiming that the Ukraine dust up has strained Russia's military resources/budget etc.

Fern

 

[norseamd]

They let the Germans amass across their border and built the super high tech, but static, Maginot line. Germany just went around it.

What I keep wondering about is why did Francias not just built the Maginot line in front of Belgium also?

Did they not learn anything from the first World War?

 

[norseamd]

http://www.ispionline.it/it/EBook/BeyondUkraine.EUandRussiainSearchofaNewRelation.pdf

 

[Jhhnn]

From what I've heard France had no appetite to revisit another WW and decided their troops would not fight unless France itself was attacked. I.e., no leaving French soil and defensive posture only. They stuck with this to the point of absurdity and paid for it. They let the Germans amass across their border and built the super high tech, but static, Maginot line. Germany just went around it.

IMO, a powerful example of why not fighting until your own territory is invaded can be a very, very bad idea.

Fern

Which brings us around to the idea of pre-emptive aggression like the invasion of Iraq.

Do I have to quote Herman Goring again?

French strategy in the wake of WW1 failed mostly because the Dutch & the Belgians couldn't uphold their part of what was joint strategy. All of them lagged behind what was an explosive German military buildup during the 30's, a buildup based on advanced weapons & tactics that the Germans had been researching since the end of WW1.

 

[Fern]

What I keep wondering about is why did Francias not just built the Maginot line in front of Belgium also?

Did they not learn anything from the first World War?

IIRC, and I may not, it had something to do with Belgium's declaration of neutrality and perhaps the belief that French troops could be redeployed if Germany attacked Belgium.

Yeah, I suppose they did learn from WWI, unfortunately that didn't help. I'm guessing that the blitzkrieg tactic caught everyone flat-footed. I.e., Germany blew through Belgium so fast that the French troops couldn't be redeployed in time.

Fern

 

[Jhhnn]

IIRC, and I may not, it had something to do with Belgium's declaration of neutrality and perhaps the belief that French troops could be redeployed if Germany attacked Belgium.

Yeah, I suppose they did learn from WWI, unfortunately that didn't help. I'm guessing that the blitzkrieg tactic caught everyone flat-footed. I.e., Germany blew through Belgium so fast that the French troops couldn't be redeployed in time.

Fern

I think the issue of pre-emptive aggression vs actual self defense is one you'd rather avoid.

Putin is no fool & he'd have to be one to attack any Nato country. Obviously, he will attempt to thwart Nato expansion along Russia's border and will take the opportunities presented to him in doing so. Think of pro Russian rebels in Ukraine as the equivalent of the Contras.