Poll: Rumsfield should resign

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conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: wiin
conjur said:


"First, learn how to quote."

Is that your best?


"Second, http://armed-services.senate.gov/"

Says nothing about them being informed of the situation.

"Third, learn how to count. 17?"

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/11/112439.shtml

1) You still need to learn how to quote. See that "Quote" link below each post? Click it. One would think someone who's been a member here for 4 1/2 years would know that.

2) You referenced nothing in your original post but I recognized the names as members of the Armed Services Committee. I thought I'd share the Republican members of that Committee.

3) You still need to learn how to count:

The seventeen people - Senators Jack Reed, Mark Dayton, Robert Byrd, Bill Nelson, Evan Bayh, Mark Pryor, Edward Kennedy, Benjamin Nelson, Hillary Clinton, Joseph Lieberman, Daniel Akaka, Paul Sarbanes, John D. Rockefeller, Governor Mark Warner and Rep. Roscoe Bartlett

Hmmm...


1. Jack Reed
2. Mark Dayton
3. Robert Byrd
4. Bill Nelson
5. Evan Bayh
6. Mark Pryor
7. Edward Kennedy
8. Benjamin Nelson
9. Hillary Clinton
10. Joseph Lieberman
11. Daniel Akaka
12. Paul Sarbanes
13. John D. Rockefeller
14. Governor Mark Warner
15. Rep. Roscoe Bartlett

That's 15.

And, Spewsmax??? BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Like I'm going to read that tabloid.
 

wiin

Senior member
Oct 28, 1999
937
0
76
conjur,

Yes, Newsmax is my tabloid. Had it not been for Newsmax, I would not have known about this because your tabloid would not have mentioned this. Wait, your tabloid, the NYT did have an article about this but did not mention the names. And, you will not find this at MSNBC eventhough MSNBC interviewed William Lawson
who mentioned the names during the telephone interview.

If only you would open yourself to new ideas...
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
Interestingly, the conservative George Will, himself a big fan of Rumsfeld, is in favor of his resignation. An excerpt:

How should he, and we, think about what comes next? Consider an axiom, a principle, two questions and then a second axiom.

The first axiom is: When there is no penalty for failure, failures proliferate. Leave aside the question of who or what failed before Sept. 11, 2001. But who lost his or her job because the president's 2003 State of the Union address gave currency to a fraud -- the story of Iraq's attempting to buy uranium in Niger? Or because the primary and only sufficient reason for waging preemptive war -- weapons of mass destruction -- was largely spurious? Or because postwar planning, from failure to anticipate the initial looting to today's insufficient force levels, has been botched? Failures are multiplying because of choices for which no one seems accountable.

The principle is: The response by the nation's government must express horror, shame and contrition proportional to the evil done to others, and the harm done to the nation, by agents of the government.

Americans are almost certainly going to die in violence made worse in Iraq, and not only there, by the substantial aid some Americans, in their torture of Iraqi prisoners, have given to our enemies in this war. And by the appallingly dilatory response to the certain torture and probable murder committed in that prison.

The nation's response must, of course, include swift and public prosecutions. And the destruction of that prison. And punctilious conformity to legal obligations -- and, now, to some optional procedures -- concerning persons in American custody. But this is not enough.

One question is: Are the nation's efforts in the deepening global war -- the world is more menacing than it was a year ago -- helped or hindered by Rumsfeld's continuation as the appointed American most conspicuously identified with the conduct of the war? This is not a simple call. But being experienced, he will know how to make the call. Being honorable, he will so do.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: wiin
Are these the ones contacted by the whistle blower's family?(dad?)
Or was it a different soldier's family that contacted these Congress critters? It's hard to know since this part isn't getting much(if any) press.

CkG



Text

You know better than to give a newsmax link as a "press" link;) I had read that newmax story which is what I was trying to recall. But since this story isn't being printed(to my knowledge) in what the left considers "real press" it will be dismissed without much discussion. I hope these congress critters who bellered about not knowing look into this a bit since atleast one bleater('Ol Swimmer) was part of the Rumsfeld inquiry last Friday and didn't say a peep about being notified by the family about this issue.

Should be interesting to see how this plays out...

CkG
 

EXman

Lifer
Jul 12, 2001
20,079
15
81
why could you do better? go back to WWII Germany was no picnic. Japan either.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Wolfowitz should resign, too! He admits, too, that the administration underestimated the resistence in Iraq. (How could they have? That were planning this war for two freakin' years!!! Complete and utter incompetence!!)

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/18/iraq.congress.ap/index.html
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Defense Department underestimated its enemy in the Iraq war, failing to predict how resilient Saddam Hussein and his government would be, the Pentagon's No. 2 civilian said Tuesday.

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz also said it's impossible to say how long a large American military force will have to stay in Iraq after political power is handed to Iraqis on June 30.

Wolfowitz spoke at a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing, the latest called by lawmakers worried about the Bush administration's handling of the war and reconstruction so far and about its plans for the future.

Answering a question about miscalculations made to date in the year-old campaign, Wolfowitz said: "I would say of all the things that were underestimated, the one that almost no one that I know of predicted ... was to properly estimate the resilience of the regime that had abused this country for 35 years."

He said that included the failure "to properly estimate that Saddam Hussein would still be out there funding attacks on Americans until he was captured; that one of his principal deputies, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, would still be out there funding operations against us; that they would have hundreds of millions of dollars in bank accounts in neighboring countries to support those operations"; and that the old intelligence service would keep fighting.

Wolfowitz also said U.S. officials were wrong to impose so severe a policy of de-Baathification, the decision to purge members of Saddam's Baath party from the government. The move threw out of work thousands of teachers, military men and others, many of whom had been required to join the party for employment, and was blamed by some for not only boosting joblessness but helping fuel the insurgency.

The ban on former party members in public sector jobs was eased last month.

Wolfowitz also said that the next year to 18 months will be critical in Iraq because it will take that long to stand up fully trained and equipped Iraqi security forces and to elect a representative government.

U.S. troops
Pressed by Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wisconsin, on how long substantial numbers of U.S. troops will have to remain, Wolfowitz said he could not predict.

Occupation forces have signed up some 200,000 Iraqis for police, army, civil defense and other security jobs. Training has been slow, however, insurgent violence is on the rise and Iraqis remain far from capable of securing the country without the 160,000-member U.S.-led occupation forces.

Feingold asked if the current 135,000 Americans will have to stay through 2005.

"We don't know what it'll be. We've had changes, as you know, month by month," Wolfowitz said. "We have several different plans to be able to deal with the different levels that might be required.

"Our current level is higher than we had planned for this time this year."

Officials had expected they'd have only 115,000 troops in Iraq by now but were forced in the spring to extend the tours of some 20,000 Americans because of unexpectedly high violence.

Before the war, some military planners estimated all but 70,000 Americans could have been withdrawn by the end of 2003. Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has said since that he never thought that number was plausible.

Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld briefed the House Armed Services panel in private Tuesday on a number of Iraq issues. The panel also was briefed by Army Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who investigated U.S. soldiers' abuse of inmates in an Iraqi prison.

Some House members viewed still-classified photos from the scandal, in which Taguba reported "sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses" by military forces at the U.S.-run Abu Ghraib prison complex near Baghdad.Gallery: Abuse at Abu Ghraib -- viewer discretion advised

Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Nebraska,, criticized Wolfowitz and Armitage for not knowing precisely how U.S.-run prisons will be handled after the transfer of sovereignty.

Armitage said officials hope to put them under Iraqi control "as rapidly as possible" but said he didn't know how long that meant.

"I would have thought that this government would put some time into this, especially with what we've just been through the last two weeks," Hagel said of the firestorm in the United States and abroad over publicized photos of abuse.

Armitage said U.N. envoy Lakhdar Brahimi is working hard to produce a list of 30 people that Iraqis could agree on to serve as president, prime minister, two vice presidents and heads of 26 ministries in the interim government, which would serve until elections are held.

He said he hoped the selection would be done by the end of this month or the first week of June.

Meanwhile, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee harshly criticized his Senate counterparts Tuesday, accusing them of "basically driving the story" of the Iraq prison abuse and pulling officials out of Iraq to testify.

"I think they have given now probably more publicity to what six people did in the Abu Ghraib prison at 2:30 in the morning than the invasion of Normandy," Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-California, said on C-SPAN.