Poll: Prostitution, should it be legal or not?

[woolfe9999]

For purposes of this poll, "prostitution" is assumed to mean what is generally and already illegal in the vast majority of the U.S. (most of Nevada excepted), i.e. an explicit agreement to exchange sex for money, not the implicit sort of agreement which may occur in ordinary "dating" situations which is not illegal.

I am wondering if anyone can persuasively defend the legal prohibition of prostitution.

Discuss.

- wolf

 

[spidey07]

Of course it should be legal. That's the purest form of capitalism there is. The only argument against it is the same that's used against gambling - it attracts crime.

 

[OCGuy]

Street prostitution? Yes. It is basically a drug/STD farm.

Regulated prostitution like Nevada and Holland? Let's do it!

 

[surfsatwerk]

What's the saying?

You aren't paying them for sex, you're paying them to leave after it's over.

 

[woolfe9999]

Of course it should be legal. That's the purest form of capitalism there is. The only argument against it is the same that's used against gambling - it attracts crime.

It probably attracts crime more because its illegal than it would if it were legalized.

- wolf

 

[Skitzer]

Street prostitution? Yes. It is basically a drug/STD farm.

Regulated prostitution like Nevada and Holland? Let's do it!

This ....... agree.

 

[woolfe9999]

To be clear, if you believe in regulated prostitution, then the appropriate poll answer is option 3, "be legal."

- wolf

 

[BW86]

Street prostitution? Yes. It is basically a drug/STD farm.

Regulated prostitution like Nevada and Holland? Let's do it!

qft

 

[Throckmorton]

Illegal. It's a vector for STDs and oppressive to the women who work as prostitutes. It's a myth that prostitutes are empowered women in charge of their own bodies practicing glorious free market capitalism.

BTW, regulation and required STD testing doesn't stop HIV. You can have HIV for 6 months without testing positive.

 

[nonlnear]

It probably attracts crime more because its illegal than it would if it were legalized.

- wolf

This is generally true of most behavioral prohibitions. The more common the behavior, the more profit potential there is for gangsters under prohibition.

 

[BoberFett]

Illegal. It's a vector for STDs and oppressive to the women who work as prostitutes. It's a myth that prostitutes are empowered women in charge of their own bodies practicing glorious free market capitalism.

BTW, regulation and required STD testing doesn't stop HIV. You can have HIV for 6 months without testing positive.

Is there anything that you aren't wrong about?

 

[woolfe9999]

Illegal. It's a vector for STDs and oppressive to the women who work as prostitutes. It's a myth that prostitutes are empowered women in charge of their own bodies practicing glorious free market capitalism.

BTW, regulation and required STD testing doesn't stop HIV. You can have HIV for 6 months without testing positive.

Regulation and required testing may not be foolproof, but it certainly does help. They had a fair amount of HIV in the porn industry up through the 1980's, until they started requiring testing in the 1990's as a precondition to letting someone work, and now HIV is rare in that industry.

If you really think it's an STD vector, and you're concerned about women being exploited by brutal pimps, legalizing it is the best thing that could happen.

- wolf

 

[surfsatwerk]

Illegal. It's a vector for STDs and oppressive to the women who work as prostitutes. It's a myth that prostitutes are empowered women in charge of their own bodies practicing glorious free market capitalism.

BTW, regulation and required STD testing doesn't stop HIV. You can have HIV for 6 months without testing positive.

Condom use is only partially effective at preventing transmission too. What it does is reduce risk, it's all a numbers game.

 

[soulcougher73]

I think it should be legalized, regulated, tested and taxed. It is supply and demand at its finest. Someone willing to pay for the service, and another person willing to be paid for the service. As long as its between 2 consenting adults im fine with it.

 

[nonlnear]

Illegal. It's a vector for STDs and oppressive to the women who work as prostitutes.

Using prohibition to control a behavior only makes sense if prohibition actually reduces the behavior significantly (as in orders of magnitude). This is a dubious claim in the case of prostitution, much as it is in the case of marijuana.

It's a myth that prostitutes are empowered women in charge of their own bodies practicing glorious free market capitalism.

True, and that is only one of the misguided arguments against prohibition. The existence of poor arguments is a bad excuse to ignore the stronger ones.

 

[Fern]

-snip-

I am wondering if anyone can persuasively defend the legal prohibition of prostitution.

Discuss.

- wolf

Personally I don't much care either way at this point.

But if you're going to legalize it you're going to have to regulate it (STD's etc.) like they do in Holland/Nederlands. BTW: I've lived in Amsterdam for brief periods and legalization does not do away with the related crime. Those who cannot get licensened still work, with the related fights over turf and pimps etc.

So far most have argued that it is prohibited because of 'moral' reasons but I argue that is only a (small) part of it. Would not (liberal) feminists argue that this is exploitation of women? Would women in general (and particularly married) be for legalization? I doubt it. Do the average (nonreligious) father/mother want their daughter to be a hooker? Would they oppose it on their own non-religious grounds? Wouldn't some oppose it on societal grounds? Can you really work as a hooker until you reach retirement/SS age? If not, what are your job prospects between leaving the 'profession' and retirement?

Would hookers even want it legalized? If, as with pot, legalization can be expected to bring lower prices would they want that? I'm sure there are tangible benfits for them with legalization, but would they weigh those with reduced revenue and opt for legalization? IDK, but I think it's a question.

Maybe the status quo is mostly acceptible?

Fern

 

[child of wonder]

Prostitution should be legalized and regulated. Social stigma will prevent most people from partaking in it, but those that choose to do so shouldn't be thrown in jail.

We should also tax the shit out of it.

 

[PokerGuy]

Crime associated with it will never go away, because very few go into that line of work voluntarily. They end up there to support a drug habit or are coerced in one way or another, so the seedy part of the business still exists.

 

[Carmen813]

For purposes of this poll, "prostitution" is assumed to mean what is generally and already illegal in the vast majority of the U.S. (most of Nevada excepted), i.e. an explicit agreement to exchange sex for money, not the implicit sort of agreement which may occur in ordinary "dating" situations which is not illegal.

I am wondering if anyone can persuasively defend the legal prohibition of prostitution.

Discuss.

- wolf

I believe it should be illegal with stronger penalties, though I admit ignorance when it comes to what the current penalties are. I also base my opinion on the belief that prostitutes are typically women, and I will frame it as such. That said, most of what I'm about to say would apply equally to men.

For a variety of reasons, prostitution undermines the social value of women. It objectifies women by turning them into a commodity that can be purchased. It pushes sex and intercourse further down the path of being an "entitlement" that all men should be able to obtain. Prostitution depersonalizes sex and undermines an important part of human interaction, namely relationships. I think that ultimately does a great deal of harm to society.

Given that men are the dominant political power group in the U.S., laws and regulations about legalized prostitution would almost certainly be written by and enforced by men, which would certainly bias them in some way.

I'd argue that it even hurts men because it takes advantage of one of their fundamental biological desires. I could see it harming the mental health of men who can't afford prostitutes (which could become a status symbol of sorts).

And honestly...how many girls do you think answer that they want to be prostitutes when they grow up? Given how integral career is in how we view ourselves (and often something we use to form our initial impressions of a person), if prostitution was legal, do you think many people would want to admit to it publicly?

 

[woolfe9999]

Personally I don't much care either way at this point.

But if you're going to legalize it you're going to have to regulate it (STD's etc.) like they do in Holland/Nederlands. BTW: I've lived in Amsterdam for brief periods and legalization does not do away with the related crime. Those who cannot get licensened still work, with the related fights over turf and pimps etc.

So far most have argued that it is prohibited because of 'moral' reasons but I argue that is only a (small) part of it. Would not (liberal) feminists argue that this is exploitation of women? Would women in general (and particularly married) be for legalization? I doubt it. Do the average (nonreligious) father/mother want their daughter to be a hooker? Would they oppose it on their own non-religious grounds? Wouldn't some oppose it on societal grounds? Can you really work as a hooker until you reach retirement/SS age? If not, what are your job prospects between leaving the 'profession' and retirement?

Would hookers even want it legalized? If, as with pot, legalization can be expected to bring lower prices would they want that? I'm sure there are tangible benfits for them with legalization, but would they weigh those with reduced revenue and opt for legalization? IDK, but I think it's a question.

Maybe the status quo is mostly acceptible?

Fern

I wasn't excluding those who favor prohibition from a more or less feminist perspective. We've already had Throckmorton say he suppports it basically for that reason.

I am critical of your last point, about whether "hookers" would want it legal. I personally think most would as the prices would likely not go down as much as with drugs and it would be safer and cleaner, but that isn't really the point. The main point is that it isn't their call. I don't really think they should have the option to not pay taxes on their wage like the rest of us do, and I don't think it is their call that our tax dollar be spent on futile attempts to prohibit it just so that they can keep prices as high as possible. Basically, the logic of that is that tax payors are spending money to maximize their wage, which in turn is not taxed.

- wolf

 

[woolfe9999]

I believe it should be illegal with stronger penalties, though I admit ignorance when it comes to what the current penalties are. I also base my opinion on the belief that prostitutes are typically women, and I will frame it as such. That said, most of what I'm about to say would apply equally to men.

For a variety of reasons, prostitution undermines the social value of women. It objectifies women by turning them into a commodity that can be purchased. It pushes sex and intercourse further down the path of being an "entitlement" that all men should be able to obtain. Prostitution depersonalizes sex and undermines an important part of human interaction, namely relationships. I think that ultimately does a great deal of harm to society.

Given that men are the dominant political power group in the U.S., laws and regulations about legalized prostitution would almost certainly be written by and enforced by men, which would certainly bias them in some way.

I'd argue that it even hurts men because it takes advantage of one of their fundamental biological desires. I could see it harming the mental health of men who can't afford prostitutes (which could become a status symbol of sorts).

And honestly...how many girls do you think answer that they want to be prostitutes when they grow up? Given how integral career is in how we view ourselves (and often something we use to form our initial impressions of a person), if prostitution was legal, do you think many people would want to admit to it publicly?

People wouldn't want to "admit to it publicly" because society morally disapproves of it, be it from a right/religious perspective or from a left/feminist perspective. That doesn't make any of those judgments correct or incorrect and hence you're sort of begging the question.

What I see here is you arguing that harm to both men and women comes from prostitution in that it "devalues relationships." Let's assume that to be true. It's also true of all kinds of other things, such as the use of sex in advertising. And what about the right of both men and women to make their own decisions about what to do with their bodies and their money? Can we right every wrong with our laws, cops, and jails, or should some moral decisions just be left to individuals? Should we criminalize sodomy, abortion, adultery? Isn't sexuality in a zone of privacy?

- wolf

 

[her209]

Is there a money back guarantee?

 

[JS80]

Street prostitution? Yes. It is basically a drug/STD farm.

Regulated prostitution like Nevada and Holland? Let's do it!

Why regulate it? Just ban street prostitution and bring back craisglist adult services.

 

[bfdd]

PROSTITUTION DOES NOT OBJECTIFY WOMEN IT DOES NOT TREAT WOMEN AS OBJECTS. PROSTITUTION IS GENDER NEUTRAL. Prostitution is not a person, it cannot make something an object, PEOPLE DO THAT. Lets not forget prostitution isn't a gender exclusive profession, men and women can be prostitutes and ARE PROSTITUTES. It just happens to be the largest customer base is straight males so most workers are females to cater to this audience.

If you believe prostitution should be illegal, then what are your stances on professional pornography? These are people who are paid to have sex. So it's ok to pay for sex if it's on camera and you sell it? That makes sense to you people? Give me a fucking break.

I apologize for the caps lock in the beginning, I'm just sick of stupid fucking morons blaming something that cannot even have a thought when it is most definitely a PEOPLE problem.

 

[werepossum]

Illegal. It's a vector for STDs and oppressive to the women who work as prostitutes. It's a myth that prostitutes are empowered women in charge of their own bodies practicing glorious free market capitalism.

BTW, regulation and required STD testing doesn't stop HIV. You can have HIV for 6 months without testing positive.

I believe someone on this board has as a sig a Ben Franklin (I think!) quote to the affect that prohibiting someone from doing something because you think it is bad for him is the worst sort of oppression. Presumably this also applies to women. If the problem is oppressed women, working on the things that cause a woman to take up prostitution (I'm guessing drugs and the lure of easy money, but whatever) that lead women into this oppression seems to me a much better solution than adding another, officially sanctioned level of oppression to their presumably shapely backs. Personally I agree with Spidey, it's the ultimate form of capitalism. If we are free beings, then we must first own ourselves, so we should be able to do with ourselves as we wish as long as we are not too self-destructive or disruptive. And I know two young men who were fired after being caught in prostitution stings, so at least they'd have their jobs were it legal. (My personal policy, that any streetwalker who looks clean enough to touch is obviously an undercover cop, would have stood them in good stead.)

Though I can't imagine how prostitution legal or otherwise prospers in this age of AIDS and herpes megaplex and hepatitis zeta and . . . The sluttiest bar skank has to have fewer diseases than the average house-kept hooker.