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Poll only - Who's lying?

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Kavanaugh was caught lying about whether he watched Ford's testimony. He is a fundamentally dishonest person and that is obvious. He'd lie to you about what he had for breakfast just to get the practice.
 
I really dig how R shills have stepped up to the microphone, aka Lindsey Graham, to threaten future D nominations for attempting to attain the truth about this situation.
 
We've already seen Kavanaugh be dishonest, and his losing his shit over Dems and Clintons while getting argumentative with the panel does nothing to indicate credibility. Ford, on the other hand, was completely credible and clearly has nothing to hide. His attempts to portray a choir boy like school career while involving booze and the conquest of girls was particularly amusing to me. What a load of shit.

Kavanaugh's nomination should be withdrawn, or the FBI should start investigating. Republicans should know their crocodile tears mean nothing, no one buys the theater after what you did Merrick Garland.

An honest man would have taken Durbin up on his suggestion with enthusiasm, particularly a man so incensed his good name was at risk.
 
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K1052 said:
About the incident itself, maybe neither. I find it very possible that a heavy drinker could black out and not remember many of their actions. Based on the information available he seems like such a person.

About basically everything else Kavanaugh's credibility is really thin and explanations insufficient or badly strain plausibility. His manner and partisanship in the hearing though should have been sufficient to render him unfit for the bench he's proposed to be elevated to.
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I don’t really get this. It’s obvious that he’s lied about a number of things tangential to the primary charge yet when it comes to the charge itself we think he wouldn’t lie about that?
 
Puffnstuff said:
I really dig how R shills have stepped up to the microphone, aka Lindsey Graham, to threaten future D nominations for attempting to attain the truth about this situation.
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It was kind of amazing to see Graham pledge to put forth false accusations against future Democratic nominees as revenge for Democrats taking real, credible accusations seriously.

The Senate ethics committee should open an investigation on him for that. What if he’s done it already?
 
fskimospy said:
I don’t really get this. It’s obvious that he’s lied about a number of things tangential to the primary charge yet when it comes to the charge itself we think he wouldn’t lie about that?
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There is a chance that he really doesn't remember. As a best case scenario that isn't particularly encouraging either in that the nominee may have been (and still be) an angry blackout drunk for much of his life. To be clear I think the incident occurred.

As to the lying...yeah. He seems to have done a lot of it.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
I'm just being fair when I say democrats really did ask some fucking dumb - or rather asshole-ish questions.

"Do you drink on weekdays?" isn't a yes or no question - I went into this in the thread.

"How many beers is too many?" is an INCREDIBLY stupid question. I have beers in my house that will have you in drunk state before you even finish the bottle. That one bottle will probably have you over the BAC for driving (.08). Finish two and you're likely to have a hangover minimal.

On the other hand, if you drink busch light you can probably safely have 4 before you are even at .08 and starting to feel it.

I also have plenty that are somewhere in the middle of that spectrum.
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Apparently you didn't realize his drinking habits were an issue due to his reputation and Fords account of his behavior. Kavanaugh ducked all answers to those questions.
 
BUTCH1 said:
IMO only ONE of the 2 have taken a polygraph examination, when asked about it Kavanaugh replied "they are not admissible in federal court". Huh?, we all know that Brett, but just the same with a highly qualified operator the test's are around 90-95% accuracy. If you are so passionate that "I did not do this" you would jump at this chance to help clear your name. The fact that he does not want an FBI investigation (obviously to protect Mark Judd) is screaming "I'm hiding something".
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actually, they are only about 55% accurate at best. It's why they are inadmissible, because it's no better than flipping a coin.

I believe the current "best" attempt to design some sort of lie detection protocol uses fRMI, which seems to be about 65% accurate, IIRC? Of course I imagine that it's also a bit inconvenient to put someone in an MRI machine, on top of all of those individual issues that people experience in there, and expect accurate results with that kind of questioning.
 
Kavanaugh was the only one who lied and or was completely evasive on a great deal of questions.

Ford answered all questions completely and did not hold back.

I don't see based on that one could conclude truth is on Kavanaugh's side.

My theory is he did it but was so drunk he doesn't remember. Being evasive about his drinking bolsters my opinion.

Without cross examining other witnesses we will not be able to discern what likely happened. We have bad actions on both sides. Republicans want to ram this through without a through vetting such as withholding documents. Some Dem (I doubt Feinstein) leaked Fords letter at the last minute in an attempt to delay although that does not change the voracity of the underlying charge.

Kavanaugh needs to be given a polygraph. There are plenty of high level government jobs that require it. Why should this position be so special? Kavanaugh in his pas has stated polygraphs are reliable. If he passes, vote and confirm. That can happen in a few days. If he doesn't pass, redo the FBI background check including all potential fact witnesses.
 
Judicial temperament, the ability to keep one's emotions and prejudices at bay when deciding a case, is at the base of what makes a good judicial candidate. That's why I support yesterday's participant, and endorse Dr. Christine Ford for the Supreme Court!
 
Said it before, look at motive vs cost.

What is the motive for her to come in front of the world to be grilled, and lie about a man who never assaulted her while her family has to move due to death threats?

What is the motive for him to lie about someone he never assaulted?

If her motive isn't money--which should be something that could be discovered--then she's nuts to take this risk for nothing. She didn't seem nuts.
His motive is clear--he wants to be on the Supreme Court.

One of these is more plausible than the other. Doesn't necessarily mean "the truth", but i find it helps to look at the possible reasons that people act the way they do (to steal a bit from Game of Thrones, sorry Littlefinger....).
 
Stokely said:
Said it before, look at motive vs cost.

What is the motive for her to come in front of the world to be grilled, and lie about a man who never assaulted her while her family has to move due to death threats?

What is the motive for him to lie about someone he never assaulted?

If her motive isn't money--which should be something that could be discovered--then she's nuts to take this risk for nothing. She didn't seem nuts.
His motive is clear--he wants to be on the Supreme Court.

One of these is more plausible than the other. Doesn't necessarily mean "the truth", but i find it helps to look at the possible reasons that people act the way they do (to steal a bit from Game of Thrones, sorry Littlefinger....).
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Oh but according to Trump shills here she did to sell a few books. She was doing well in life and has a family so let's put their lives at risk for a few extra dollars.

Yeah that makes sense.
 
Atreus21 said:
Uh, yes there are. She could be honestly mistaken.
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Eyewitness testimony identifying people that they are familiar with is highly accurate. (it's identifying people they don't know that eyewitnesses are bad at) It is very unlikely she is honestly mistaken.

Despite all of his lies about his drinking habits it is possible that Kavanaugh was blackout drunk that night and doesn't remember assaulting her and so he could be possibly mistaken. The other way around? Not likely at all. So really it does come down to if you believe Ford is telling the truth or Ford is making it up. You know as well as I do her making it up makes no sense given the facts.
 
Before Kavanaugh’s testimony I believed that both were telling the truth-Ford was attacked by Kavanaugh and Kavanaugh simply had no memory of it because he was drunk.It was the most likely explanation.

However, Kavanaugh was so evasive and combative that I think he remembers something, and it terrifies him.
 
It does not matter who is right or wrong here, who is lying or telling the truth. This is not a trial, this is a job interview. The question we should be asking ourselves is the candidate for the job, Brett Kavanaugh, a good fit for the job he is being considered for? I believe that even if Ford is lying that Kavanaugh showed us that he is not fit for this position. For just a moment let us set aside the nagging question of if he did these things and ask during these hearings did he comport himself in a manner befitting the position that he is being considered for? I think the answer to that is an unequivocal no. He did not display an ability to remain calm and rational under stress. He did not display an amount of professional and emotional detachment befitting a judge to the high court. He shows us instead that he was overcome by emotions and became angry and confrontational. How will he do when facing cases before the court that he has strong emotional opinions about? Will he calmly and rationally listen to the arguments, consider the facts of the case, and come to a decision based on the tenants of the Constitution and the needs of our society or will he get upset and lash out at perceived threats to his belief system?

Whether or not Ford was lying, this process was a reasonably stress test of Kavanaugh's personality, and I think he did not do well. He did not demonstrate to me the level of discipline I would require of someone to be given as much power as resides in a lifetime appointment to the highest court of the land, but instead shows me a emotional and petty person that would abuse that power when challenged.

There is a reason for the nomination process. Being nominated does not give someone a right to hold the position. The process is intended to test a person for the qualities we want in a public servant. This is a serious decision that will shape our country for generations to come. We need to take it seriously and not just accept Kavanaugh because he was the first choice put before us.
 
kage69 said:
We've already seen Kavanaugh be dishonest, and his losing his shit over Dems and Clintons while getting argumentative with the panel does nothing to indicate credibility. Ford, on the other hand, was completely credible and clearly has nothing to hide. His attempts to portray a choir boy like school career while involving booze and the conquest of girls was particularly amusing to me. What a load of shit.

Kavanaugh's nomination should be withdrawn, or the FBI should start investigating. Republicans should know their crocodile tears mean nothing, no one buys the theater after what you did Merrick Garland.

An honest man would have taken Durbin up on his suggestion with enthusiasm, particularly a man so incensed his good name was at risk.
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When you're being defamed, the last thing you do is give into the demands of dishonest inquisitors.

What happened to Garland doesn't come close to what you guys have done to Kavanaugh. The only just end to this is his confirmation. Democrats have earned that for him. God knows he's earned it.
 
Well I can't click on the poll at work. So I'll say this here. We KNOW for a fact that Kavanaugh has lied several times during his confirmation about a number of things. Which, due to his extreme dishonesty, makes it much easier to believe Ford than Kavanaugh about the accusation of sexual assault.
 
Like most unbiased onlookers, I believe they are both telling the truth, according to what they believe/remember.

Unfortunately for her, she and the Democrats decided to politicize her painful expierence... Sitting on them until just the right time. In my opinion, this lessens the true nature of her allegations, even if true/accurate.

In the end, I found them both believable though, and as such (without actual proof), I must disregard her allegations as a means to an end.
 
Atreus21 said:
When you're being defamed, the last thing you do is give into the demands of dishonest inquisitors.

What happened to Garland doesn't come close to what you guys have done to Kavanaugh. The only just end to this is his confirmation. Democrats have earned that for him. God knows he's earned it.
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Kavanaugh demonstrated clearly yesterday that he is unfit to hold any judgeship. He is a conspiracy mongering partisan hack. He hasn't earned anything but the contempt of honest folk.
 
Atreus21 said:
When you're being defamed, the last thing you do is give into the demands of dishonest inquisitors.

What happened to Garland doesn't come close to what you guys have done to Kavanaugh. The only just end to this is his confirmation. Democrats have earned that for him. God knows he's earned it.
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It does not matter how mean people are being to him, you don't hand out seats on the highest court of the land as consolation prizes. A Seat on the Supreme Court of the United States is not participation trophy.
 
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