Poll: how do u feel about commercials that link drugs to terrorism?

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Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
12,343
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everything contributes to everything in an indirect way. me rough housing with a friend kills some brain cells, you could twist it around and say that i'm not a good friend because i'm hurting his intelligence.

i have a sh-tty diet, and sometimes that gives me some rancid poop. i'm probably putting more methane in the atmosphere. i'm contributing to global warming - oops.

the fact is, every bit of gas you use, every bit of electricity you use, every single thing that you do that could have possibly been tamed down a bit, contributes to the decline of the world. the reason for that is the fact that we have 6 billion people on the planet - and more importantly, that the US has 280+ million people who are trained to consume as much as they can at any cost.

so we could sit around all day crying about how we are killing the earth, and commit suicide, or we could just not give a crap and continue doing what americans do. personally i try to just be reasonable. consume a bit less. dont eat fast food often. find a job close to home so you can walk, or drive fewer miles to get there. get rid of all of the garbage that isnt really important, like cable tv.

back to drugs and terrorism - sure, buying drugs somewhat contributes to terrorism, but US drug policy does as well. the root of the problem is ignorance and fear. (isnt that the root of all problems? :p)
 

chiwawa626

Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
12,013
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people who use opium and crack cocaine have problems in the first place, but just smoking weed isnt supporting terrorist since most weed is grown rite in ur home state...
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
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81
Am I surprised that if you criminalize something, which means raising the price, crimiinals will get involved with selling it?

No....
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
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Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
i have a sh-tty diet, and sometimes that gives me some rancid poop. i'm probably putting more methane in the atmosphere. i'm contributing to global warming - oops.

You know, that's almost, but not quite, sigworthy material there... I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's missing something..
 

CJZ

Golden Member
Jan 24, 2001
1,018
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Following that line of logic: if you paid taxes during the 50's-80's you supported government sponsored terrorism worldwide (coups in Iran, Chile, Congo, and support of countless dictatorships).
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,509
20,136
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Originally posted by: etech
I can't believe that people are so stupid that they don't know of the crime and deaths that drugs are causing.

It is ridiculous to say that "I don't get my dope from Afghanistan" so I'm not supporting terrorism. How stupid can you be? Terrorism is not just a problem of Arab countries and Al-queada. It is the killings and murders in Mexico of rival drug gangs. It is the killing of judges who sentence drug lords to jail in Mexico and all of the South American countries.

I don't care if you want to smoke dope or coke up, just admit to the effects it is having on the world. Are those effects caused by the fact that drugs are illegal, yes, but those effects are happening.

So smoke away or whatever turns you on, just every once in awhile though, take a second to wonder about who died in the battle to get you those drugs.

Etech, NONE of that, or the things listed in your other post would be happening were it not for the War on Drugs. We've tried for 50+ years to stop drug use and sale through force. We've spent trillions upon trillions of dollars and millions of innocent, non-drug abusing lives that would not have been lost were drug use and sale decriminalized.

It's time to admit failure. You cannot save people from themselves, nor should you try. We learned this with alcohol, but have failed to learn it with drugs or tobacco. Why?

Drug users by and large don't give a flying fsck where their drugs came from, or who died to get it to them. This new campaign is as impotent as all the previous campaigns. If they don't care about the mess they are making of their own lives, or the lives of their family, why the hell are they going to care about faceless people 5000 miles away?

In the end, it is the illegality of drugs causing the problems targeted by this ad campaign, not the use or sale of drugs. Anyone with half a brain can see this. Drugs alone cause little to no crime. The black market created by the illegality of drugs IS the cause of this crime. So stating drugs = crime is dishonest. Remember, there was a time alcohol sellers did drive-by shootings and the sale of alcohol supported organized crime... and that time was when alcohol was banned.

Normally we agree with each other. But here I must disagree with your stance.
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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I agree, BUT, we are in a WOD and those things ARE happening.

My reply was to the people that said that they weren't and using drugs now was causing no problems and not hurting anyone.
 

hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
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Originally posted by: CJZ
Following that line of logic: if you paid taxes during the 50's-80's you supported government sponsored terrorism worldwide (coups in Iran, Chile, Congo, and support of countless dictatorships).

The current administation is supporting terrorism by pissing the people in the mideast off and creating new converts. I know people in Canada who are so feed up with your government and the attitude of Americans that they're about ready to join them, and you only need visit forums in Europe and elsewhere to see this attitute is spreading fast. There's an online poll at Time Europe that askes which country poses the greatest threat to world peace, Iraq, NK or the US. The US is polling at 65%. I don't think that 'poll' is that far off the mark for how Europeans feel.



 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,509
20,136
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Originally posted by: etech
I agree, BUT, we are in a WOD and those things ARE happening.

My reply was to the people that said that they weren't and using drugs now was causing no problems and not hurting anyone.

As I said, using drugs is not causing these problems. BANNING drugs is.
 

hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
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Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: etech
I agree, BUT, we are in a WOD and those things ARE happening.

My reply was to the people that said that they weren't and using drugs now was causing no problems and not hurting anyone.

As I said, using drugs is not causing these problems. BANNING drugs is.

Many countries are trying to liberalize their drug policies, including Canada, but there is the US government threatening us with trade sanctions. We've had way too many visits here from Drug Czar John Walters, even our mayor's of Vancouver think his a dickhead.

 

hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
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Originally posted by: etech
The violence of Mexico's drug trade is beginning to seep into all levels of society. No longer confined to high-rolling drug lords in rough border towns and addicts on the streets, it is striking at lawyers, judges, police, soldiers, even doctors.

The latest attack came Nov. 11, when two federal judges and one of their wives died in a hail of gunfire in the Pacific coast resort of Mazatlan, in the worst attack on the courts in recent memory.

They were on their way to a baseball game with their wives when they were ambushed. Authorities quickly put police guards around judges in drug- and violence-plagued Sinaloa state, and there were calls for the kind of anonymous "hooded judges" that Colombia used to try dangerous suspects at the height of its drug wars.

The two judges had presided over drug cases in another northern state, Tamaulipas, and the nature of the slayings - a lone gunman sprayed their van with 40 rounds from an AK-47 assault rifle - led police to believe that jailed drug traffickers may have ordered the attack.

Just three days later, in the northern city of Monterrey, lawyer Silvia Raquenel Villanueva, who has represented drug informers, survived her fourth assassination attempt. In the last 13 years, she has had a gasoline bomb thrown in her office; suffered three bullet wounds in a 1999 attack; had 13 bullets fired at her in her office last year; and, most recently, ducked a barrage of shots on a Monterrey street.

The chief justice of Mexico's Supreme Court, Genaro Gongora, warns that criminals are trying "to take Mexican society hostage."

To some, the social damage was already clear before the November killings of the judges. The industrial-scale drug trade has transformed the once largely nonviolent trafficking of marijuana into one of Mexico's deadliest activities, while making more common crimes like kidnapping ever more violent.

The trade's most insidious effect is its ability to warp society, said Jorge Chabat, a drug expert at the Center for Economic Development Research in Mexico City.

"The drug trade is like AIDS - it attacks society's antibodies, the immune system," Chabat said. "The corruption focuses on law enforcement agencies, and makes them extremely inefficient at combating any kind of crime."

Even something as seemingly unrelated as environmental law has become susceptible to drug-related violence.

Navy patrols are wary of stopping and searching dozens of boats that practice illegal dragnet fishing off the coast of Baja California because that area has become a favored route for heavily armed drug traffickers.

"The navy and the army send out patrols, but the problem is that they never know what's going to happen when they stop a boat. It could be full of smugglers," said Adan Hernandez, who helps run a sea turtle conservation center in Magdalena Bay, near the southern tip of Baja.

And at least eight doctors are known to have been murdered in recent years after operating on suspected members of drug gangs.

Other crimes also have become more violent and destructive under the influence of the drug trade. In many cases, common criminals seem to have picked up the kind of secrecy and eliminate-all-witnesses attitude long exhibited by drug traffickers.

Some kidnappers in southern Mexico, for example, are killing their victims even after ransom is paid, apparently in order to cover their tracks.

Most attention directed toward the drug trade has focused on wildly violent, cocaine- or heroin-fueled crime like the "narco-satanic" dismemberment killings carried out by a pseudo-cult of addicts along the U.S. border in the late 1980s.

But the biggest change has come in activity present for centuries in Mexico: the small-scale growth and consumption of marijuana, a tradition immortalized in folk songs like "La Cucaracha."

Traditionally, marijuana caused little violence and seldom spread beyond the mainly lower-class users.

Luis Hernandez, 68, remembers the smell of marijuana smoke drifting over the rooftops of his rough-and-tumble Tepito neighborhood in the 1940s.

"Mothers would just lie, and tell their kids that somebody was burning the 'hooves of the Devil,'" he said.

"If any little kid happened to find a guy smoking marijuana, the guy would try to hide it, or scare the kid off. Now they just offer the kid some, try to get him hooked," he said disapprovingly.

Nowadays, marijuana smoke wafts through the streets of Tepito as young men smoke it openly on the sidewalks.

The increasing industrialization of the drug trade has made marijuana a big business, with tanker trucks carrying multi-ton shipments north to the border.

And as profits soared, the marijuana trade became deadly. The biggest and bloodiest drug massacres in the past three years have involved marijuana, not harder drugs like cocaine or heroin.

Rather than killing a few rivals at a time, as the big cocaine cartels do, marijuana traffickers wipe out entire extended families.

Last February, a gang of gunmen stopped a truck carrying farmers to a town festival in Sinaloa, and methodically shot to death every passenger - 10 men and two teen-agers. The motive, according to police: One group of farmers allegedly had robbed marijuana from another.

A year earlier, in the western state of Michoacan, an entire family was gunned down in the rural home they used as a marijuana storehouse.

In September 1998, near Ensenada, gunmen rousted from bed an alleged marijuana trafficker and 18 members of his family, including eight children. They were lined up against a wall and shot with semiautomatic rifles. The motive: The trafficker had infringed on rivals' business.

"Unlike the cocaine trade, where a few professionals pass imported drugs through Mexico, marijuana involves a lot of farmers, a lot of peasant growers," said Chabat, the drug expert. "That means there is a lot more friction between the growers themselves, and the police."

And the President of Mexico wants to legalize all drugs, why is that? Maybe because these are effects of the "War on Drugs", which would vanish under a legal trade?


 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
14
81
People like jteef can sit here all day and argue about what they think will happen, but the truth is that we don't HAVE to think; All we have to do is open up a history book and look at a certain example called Prohibition. Alcohol was popular. Alcohol was banned. Al Capone and the like created and underground industry that lead to many bigger problems than the consumption of alcohol alone was responsible for. Government repealed Prohibition, everything went back to normal and was fine and dandy.

Now replace "Alcohol" with "Marijuana," and "Al Capone" with uhhh... I dunno. Willie Nelson?
 

Mookow

Lifer
Apr 24, 2001
10,162
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Originally posted by: jteef
No, prices are higher because it's illegal. People charge a huge amount because they can. You really think it costs $30-60 to grow and ship 1 oz of weed?

Red Dawn, your statement is so true it hurts.



that is my point. If drugs are no longer illegal, the current cartels are still going to be able to sell and make more money than gov't or corporate competition. And maybe more overall.

jt

Um, no. Which is going to be cheaper... weed grown in huge proportions by a farmer, trucked to its destination by semis, and sold in a store, OR weed grown, processed, and transported covertly? Economy of scale would easily lower the price enough to account for the taxes that would be inevitably leveled on weed. Even if drug smugglers could sell at a price point lower than the "legal" weed price, if you are only a infrequent user, you're not going to risk the penalties for tax evasion or smuggling to save a couple of dollars.


To put it another way: Alcohol was once illegal. Gangs fought over control of selling moonshine. Alcohol was legalized. When was the last time you saw a killing between two rival gangs that involved moonshine in an economical sense? I dont mean "one side was drunk on moonshine", I mean it was a turf war or something else that would financially affect the gang that involved moonshine.
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
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As others have said the comparison to prohibition is fairly obvious. Legalize it.
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
Originally posted by: Triumph
People like jteef can sit here all day and argue about what they think will happen, but the truth is that we don't HAVE to think; All we have to do is open up a history book and look at a certain example called Prohibition. Alcohol was popular. Alcohol was banned. Al Capone and the like created and underground industry that lead to many bigger problems than the consumption of alcohol alone was responsible for. Government repealed Prohibition, everything went back to normal and was fine and dandy.

Now replace "Alcohol" with "Marijuana," and "Al Capone" with uhhh... I dunno. Willie Nelson?

The ironic thing is that if Al Capone was feeling stressed from his bootlegging travails he could have stopped at any pharmacy at that time and purchased some cocaine legally to calm his nerves.
 

polm

Diamond Member
May 24, 2001
3,183
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I agree that in the case of ANY illegal drug, there is potention for both the Buyer AND the Dealer to be supporting terrorism. Not necessarily Al Quaida (sp?) but certainly the drug cartels and afghany Heroin suppliers, etc.

I will confess to a personal Marijuana habit. The illegality of this drug has forced many people, at one time including myself, to turn to "drug dealers" for their cannabis. These drug dealers typically deal in purchasing BULK quantities of marijuana, and the chances that the money paid for these bulk amounts will hava a high probability of ending up in "Terrorist" hands. Also these drug dealers usually dabble in dealing more than just Marijuana, so you are looking at even bigger odds of supporting terrorism.

To eliminate the potential for supporting terrorism, and still maintaining my cannabis habbit I can suggest a few measures.
REMEMBER MARIJUANA IS ILLEGAL...JUST BECAUSE YOU ARENT SUPPORTING TERRORISM DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARENT BREAKING THE LAW

1) grow your own
2) move to Amsterdam, Interlokken, or Vancouver (plus I am sure there are other places that have de-criminalized marijuana)

So to answer your question : `
how do u feel about commercials that link drugs to terrorism ?

I think there is definitely some truth to them. IMHO, though, the connection with Marijuana to Terrorism is due primarily to the Illegality of the drug. I think the commercials should keep their focus on hard drugs like Heroin.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,509
20,136
146
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: Triumph
People like jteef can sit here all day and argue about what they think will happen, but the truth is that we don't HAVE to think; All we have to do is open up a history book and look at a certain example called Prohibition. Alcohol was popular. Alcohol was banned. Al Capone and the like created and underground industry that lead to many bigger problems than the consumption of alcohol alone was responsible for. Government repealed Prohibition, everything went back to normal and was fine and dandy.

Now replace "Alcohol" with "Marijuana," and "Al Capone" with uhhh... I dunno. Willie Nelson?

The ironic thing is that if Al Capone was feeling stressed from his bootlegging travails he could have stopped at any pharmacy at that time and purchased some cocaine legally to calm his nerves.

Cocaine does anything but "calm nerves." In fact, it does exactly the opposite.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Use of Makeup subsidizes Terrorism . In fact use of any petroleum Product does. So all you KY Jelly Clowns here are subsidizing terrorism.
 

Dufman

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2002
1,949
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thoes comercials are far fetched. lets say my friend grows pot at his house, and my other friend buys it from him...is he supporting terrorism???
 

Johnlee

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,007
2
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The flip side of the coin is that by making the drugs illegal, the US government is supporting terrorism. If they were legal, there is no way to make 1/1000 of the profit that you can now.

Tell this man what he's won Chuck!!
 

johnjohn320

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2001
7,572
2
76
Originally posted by: Johnlee
The flip side of the coin is that by making the drugs illegal, the US government is supporting terrorism. If they were legal, there is no way to make 1/1000 of the profit that you can now.

Tell this man what he's won Chuck!!

A bag of weed.