Poll: How did human life come about?

[Sunbird]

OMG! No wonder so many Americans voted for Bush, they are even more stupid than him!!!

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

LOL. Whatever man. All that link does is prove Adam would die. I makes absolutely no reference to what type of death it would be. It doesn't even use the word 'body' or 'physical', so please feel free to keep trying.

The word has a well-established meaning provided by the context of the other 600+ times it appears in the bible describing a physical death. Can you provide another example where the same word is used to describe this alleged "spiritual death"?

Here's a list of the 28 times it appears in Leviticus.

Which case of those describes, not a physical death, but this alleged "spiritual death"?

When the law instructs the Jews to have someone "put to death" for his transgressions, would you have us believe that they were supposed to cause the "spiritual death" of that person? How would that work?

It is obvious that you are demanding a highly unusual interpretation of the word for the sole purpose of avoiding the blatant contradiction. How utterly moronic.

Yes, it is. You've not provided an iota of sound reasoning to believe that we should interpret the usage of that word any differently than it is used the other 600+ times in the Bible.

I have, you're just not willing to accept it. Since you 'blah blah blah' out my last comment due to the fact you had no answer to my comments, I'll ask you again. When you 'die', are you really dead and cease to exist?

You body sure is. Clearly that is what the passage was written to describe, just as the word is used so many other times to describe the same.

If you answer no, then you don't have a foot to stand on in this argument. If you answer yes, you have absolutely no understanding of the Bible and thus have no purpose in this discussion.

How hard is it to understand that the word means precisely what it says on its face? Nice well-poisoning, though.

Feel free to try to answer, or just coward out again and use 'blah blah blah'. Or you could just follow your own comment and end this ridiculous discussion.

It'll end when you realize that you're clinging to nothing but your own pride.

All you can do is beg the question by assuming from the beginning that later passages that vaguely allude to some kind of "spiritual death" compel your unusual interpretation because they must, lest there exist a contradiction.

And people like you wonder why so many scoff at Christian "reasoning."

As I already said, I don't give a rats-rip if the Bible contains a contradiction or not.

But that isn't the case in this instance. You've obviously committed yourself to once conclusion despite the dearth of contravening evidence.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Garth
The word has a well-established meaning provided by the context of the other 600+ times it appears in the bible describing a physical death. Can you provide another example where the same word is used to describe this alleged "spiritual death"?

Here's a list of the 28 times it appears in Leviticus.

Which case of those describes, not a physical death, but this alleged "spiritual death"?

Oh my gosh. You really are thick, aren't you? No one, absolutely no one, has claimed that the verse was not translated properly, which is the absolutely only thing that link you provided shows. That is it. All the definitions say is the the word translates to die. We no kidding! That's what the verse says too! Imagine that!

If you want some examples, here. Spiritual Death.. Look them up yourself. You're not listening to a word anyone else says, so why should I take the time to bother doing all the research for you?

When the law instructs the Jews to have someone "put to death" for his transgressions, would you have us believe that they were supposed to cause the "spiritual death" of that person? How would that work?

If I had claimed that there was only one type of death, that question would make sense. Since I didn't, that question is stupid. If you're not capable of determining which of the two they meant by the context of the verse and those that followed, you need some help.

By the way, no other human can inflict spiritual death upon you. That is something only you can do.

It is obvious that you are demanding a highly unusual interpretation of the word for the sole purpose of avoiding the blatant contradiction. How utterly moronic.

The only thing moronic is your insistence that I somehow care if the Bible contains a contradiction. As you can see from the link provided, spiritual death is not some new idea. Look it up on wiki, you'll find the same thing.

Matter of fact, if I was looking for a contradiction in the realm of spiritual death, I'd use this verse instead of the ones you used. They're much better.

Matt 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

How can the physically dead bury the physically dead? Since you believe every use of dead means physical, you answer the question.

You body sure is. Clearly that is what the passage was written to describe, just as the word is used so many other times to describe the same.

You really are interesting. Clearly, as Adam still lived after that time, that's NOT what is meant. Besides genius, your still not answering the question. Who gives a rip if the body is dead. I didn't ask that. I asked if the person is dead. Either they are or they aren't. Your interpretation says they must be, body, spirit, and all. Then I'd love to see you justify that one with the Bible.

How hard is it to understand that the word means precisely what it says on its face? Nice well-poisoning, though.

Way to avoid the question. Still to scared to answer?

It'll end when you realize that you're clinging to nothing but your own pride.

BBBBBWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA!

Where is that wiping a tear away emotion thing?

But that isn't the case in this instance. You've obviously committed yourself to once conclusion despite the dearth of contravening evidence.

Yeah, cause I'm still waiting for a single shred of 'contravening evidence' from you. So far you shown nothing but the fact that you feel all Biblical understand must be in accordance with you understanding, or interpretation. If you would like to show how that is in any way evidence, I would be greatly amused.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Oh my gosh. You really are thick, aren't you?

Obviously you are projecting.

No one, absolutely no one, has claimed that the verse was not translated properly, which is the absolutely only thing that link you provided shows. That is it. All the definitions say is the the word translates to die. We no kidding! That's what the verse says too! Imagine that!

I'm not claiming that the word was mistranslated. Who's posts have you been reading?

If you want some examples, here. [L=fficial&client=firefox-a">Spiritual Death.]http://www.google.com/search?q=spiritual+death&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US[/quote]
Of course, you wouldn't have any citations [b]from the Bible[/b]. I wonder why that is.

[quote]
If I had claimed that there was only one type of death, that question would make sense. Since I didn't, that question is stupid. If you're not capable of determining which of the two they meant by the context of the verse and those that followed, you need some help.[/quote]
But the context clearly shows that the passage promised a physical death for Adam on that day.


[quote]
By the way, no other human can inflict spiritual death upon you. That is something only you can do.[/quote]
So when Leviticus instructs the Jews to cause "[i]twm[/i]" to trangressors of the law, it doesn't mean to cause a "spiritual death" but a physical one. That is exactly my point. The Genesis passage promised a physical death likewise, but you are insisting that the VERY SAME WORD means something totally different and unique in that ONE particular instance that stands in contradiction to the other 600+ times it is used in the rest of the Bible.

[quote]
[quote]
It is obvious that you are demanding a highly unusual interpretation of the word for the sole purpose of avoiding the blatant contradiction. How utterly moronic.[/quote]

The only thing moronic is your insistence that I somehow care if the Bible contains a contradiction.[/quote]
Obviously you care about this particular contradiction, so it doesn't matter what you think about the rest.

[quote]
As you can see from the link provided, spiritual death is not some new idea. Look it up on wiki, you'll find the same thing.[/quote]
I know it isn't a new idea, but you've given us no reason to believe it is a [b]Biblical[/b] idea, nor that the passage in Genesis speaks of a "spiritual death" despite the fact that it uses the very word which is consistently used to describe a physical death in EVERY OTHER INSTANCE OF ITS USAGE IN THE BIBLE.

[quote]
Matter of fact, if I was looking for a contradiction in the realm of spiritual death, I'd use this verse instead of the ones you used. They're much better.

Matt 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; [b]and let the dead bury their dead[/b].

How can the physically dead bury the physically dead? Since you believe every use of dead means physical, you answer the question.[/quote]
I never said that every use of dead means physically dead. Please learn some reading comprehension. I said that every use of "[i]twm[/i]" means physically dead, but the Gospels weren't written in Hebrew, genius.

[quote]
[quote]
You body sure is. Clearly that is what the passage was written to describe, just as the word is used so many other times to describe the same.[/quote]

You really are interesting. Clearly, as Adam still lived after that time, that's NOT what is meant. [/quote]
A more textbook case of affirming the consequent could not be had. Who do you expect to convince with such shoddy and transparent reasoning?

[quote]
Besides genius, your still not answering the question. Who gives a rip if the body is dead. I didn't ask that. I asked if the person is dead. Either they are or they aren't. Your interpretation says they must be, body, spirit, and all. Then I'd love to see you justify that one with the Bible.[/quote]
None of that is relevant to the contradiction in the Bible.

{snip}

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: Garth
Obviously you are projecting.

Oh get over it.

I'm not claiming that the word was mistranslated. Who's posts have you been reading?

I didn't think you had been, yet you are the one providing link that show nothing but translation. So if that's not your point, why post it?

Of course, you wouldn't have any citations from the Bible. I wonder why that is.

The link was to google, with about 400+ sites that show reference to spiritual death in the Bible. No I didn't include them. Something gave me to strange impression you might actually be able to click on a link without me having to include it in the thread.

My apologies, I obviously have given you more credit than you deserve.

But the context clearly shows that the passage promised a physical death for Adam on that day.

No it doesn't. That is nothing more than your interpretation. The verse says die. Here's the definition of die. You obviously won't be capable of clicking the link, but if you can manage to have someone show you how, you'll see several definitions of die, including "TO LOSE SPIRITUAL LIFE."

Again, what are the odds?

So when Leviticus instructs the Jews to cause "twm" to trangressors of the law, it doesn't mean to cause a "spiritual death" but a physical one. That is exactly my point. The Genesis passage promised a physical death likewise, but you are insisting that the VERY SAME WORD means something totally different and unique in that ONE particular instance that stands in contradiction to the other 600+ times it is used in the rest of the Bible.

That word, twm, as you so showed earlier, translates 'die'. It does not translate 'physical death', 'spiritual death', or anything else. It plain and simply translates die. Now, didn't you earlier say this wasn't a translation thing?

Here's lecture for you. Whether you're talking about physical or spiritual death, to die in either way uses the word 'twn'. Why? Because it mean die.

Obviously you care about this particular contradiction, so it doesn't matter what you think about the rest.

I care about the doctrine. I don't give a flip about the contradiction. I wouldn't expect you to understand though.

I know it isn't a new idea, but you've given us no reason to believe it is a Biblical idea, nor that the passage in Genesis speaks of a "spiritual death" despite the fact that it uses the very word which is consistently used to describe a physical death in EVERY OTHER INSTANCE OF ITS USAGE IN THE BIBLE.

You are truly the thickest person I've ever spoken to. You are completely incapable of understanding the difference between translation and meaning. Let me know when you do know the difference.

Oh, and I'd recommend you actually click on that Google link and read some of the articles before you go trying to say I haven't presented anything. All the Biblical evidence you need it contained in the links referred.

I never said that every use of dead means physically dead. Please learn some reading comprehension. I said that every use of "twm" means physically dead, but the Gospels weren't written in Hebrew, genius.

Really? You think? Come to that all on your own? Again, 'twm' means die. It has no other meaning and can be used to describe physical or spiritual death.

A more textbook case of affirming the consequent could not be had. Who do you expect to convince with such shoddy and transparent reasoning?

Oh, I have no hope of ever convincing you. Anyone with any Biblical knowledge knows I'm right. It's only people like you that truly know nothing of the Gospel that can't understand simple Gospel principles. Gee, sounds right, doesn't it?

None of that is relevant to the contradiction in the Bible.

The hell it isn't! Answer the question.

More than any other reason, this is why I know no one would ever convince you of anything. You're not even man enough to admit that you're wrong. You simply can't do it. And you know if you answer that question you'll be doing exactly that.