POLL: Do You Think Asians Are A "Model Minority"

[neovan]

Its for my class...just wanted your opinion.

EDITSince Asians are presumed smart and more well off than other minority groups should they become an example of what other immigrant groups should become.

 

[Czar]

<< What the hell does "model minority" mean? >>


explain

 

[weezergirl]

well in the area of scholastics and hard work yes.

in all other areas, not really

 

[cressida]

<< well in the area of scholastics and hard work yes.

in all other areas, not really >>



I dunno what happened to me .. :frown:

 

[tallest1]

I know what angle you're coming from neovan but all asians aren't perfect little people.

Its just that the smart ones get noticed (and stand out) more often.

Though as a personal observation, you can ask most asians (smart or not) what they want to do in life and they'll have no idea. Yes, that a generalization but not one asian I know has a straight path in their life - brains or no.

Anyhow, back on topic. I don't think they're model minorities. Even today, asian youths are conflicting w/ the traditions of their elders and being really really pushed by their parents (to be a doctor, or go to Harvard, or take care of the family when they get old, etc, etc). So even though I believe that some people (not races) are more capable of achieving than others, the 'model asians' you see worked hard to get to where they are today.

 

[neovan]

<< I know what angle you're coming from neovan but all asians aren't perfect little people.

Its just that the smart ones get noticed (and stand out) more often.

Though as a personal observation, you can ask most asians (smart or not) what they want to do in life and they'll have no idea. Yes, that a generalization but not one asian I know has a straight path in their life - brains or no.

Anyhow, back on topic. I don't think they're model minorities. Even today, asian youths are conflicting w/ the traditions of their elders and being really really pushed by their parents (to be a doctor, or go to Harvard, or take care of the family when they get old, etc, etc). So even though I believe that some people (not races) are more capable of achieving than others, the 'model asians' you see worked hard to get to where they are today. >>


No...I just want Asians to realize that the "model minority" is a myth...this sums it better...its from modelminority.com:


<< As diverse and rapidly changing as the society we live in, Asian Americans do not conform to any single description. Despite this, Americans reluctant to address the realities of continuing racism and white privilege have consistently portrayed Asian Americans as a "model minority" who have uniformly succeeded by merit.
While superficially complimentary to Asian Americans, the real purpose and effect of this portrayal is to celebrate the status quo in race relations. First, by over-emphasizing Asian American success, it de-emphasizes the problems Asian Americans continue to face from racial discrimination in all areas of public and private life. Second, by misrepresenting Asian American success as proof that America provides equal opportunities for those who conform and work hard, it excuses American society from careful scrutiny on issues of race in general, and on the persistence of racism against Asian Americans in particular >>

 

[gopunk]

So even though I believe that some people (not races) are more capable of achieving than others, the 'model asians' you see worked hard to get to where they are today.

i don't think that just because they worked to get where they are excludes them from being a "model minority". on the contrary, i think that's why people think of them as a "model minority". i don't thnk they're considered such because people think they're naturally smarter or something, but that they embody the notion that america is a country in which hard work brings success.

and i would make a distinction between two groups of asians. there is one group, chinese, vietnamese, japanese, etc, and then there is another, which consists of mostly south east asian countries like thailand, cambodia, etc. not to slight the second group, but i thnk that when people say asians are a "model minority," they are referring to the first group.

 

[glen]

No Asians around where I live.
Only ones I know are the dudes at Firing Squad
Wow, they are my heroes:
Attend prestigious CA Universities
Get lots of Babes
Excel at cool games like Tribes, Starcraft, Quake, etc..
Drive Ferraris.

 

[neovan]

<< So even though I believe that some people (not races) are more capable of achieving than others, the 'model asians' you see worked hard to get to where they are today.

i don't think that just because they worked to get where they are excludes them from being a "model minority". on the contrary, i think that's why people think of them as a "model minority". i don't thnk they're considered such because people think they're naturally smarter or something, but that they embody the notion that america is a country in which hard work brings success.

and i would make a distinction between two groups of asians. there is one group, chinese, vietnamese, japanese, etc, and then there is another, which consists of mostly south east asian countries like thailand, cambodia, etc. not to slight the second group, but i thnk that when people say asians are a "model minority," they are referring to the first group. >>


This is exactly my point...when the government uses demographics to see where and who needs help the most...Asians are usually excluded yet many do not see that Asians also encompass your 2nd group....so the people in the 2nd group are left unhelped

 

[Jfur]

Where I live, Asians are a vast majority

 

[b0mbrman]

There's more to it than saying "Asian American kids are good at math. Other minority kids should be good at math too."

It started in the 1960s when people started to notice that recent Asian American immigrants have a higher propensity to become entrepreneurs and have disproportionately succesful businesses. From that, people got an image in their heads of hard-working Asian Americans who were able to rise above adversity.

All was well until it started being used to insult other minorities as if to say "If Asian Americans can do it, why can't blacks, Mexicans, etc."

And so, people started looking at why.
(1) Confucian work ethos
(2) Composition of immigrants
(3) Rotating Money System

 

[Nefrodite]

it means we get pissed on when entering college and in other things where other "minorities" get special treatment. funny since we're more of a minority then those other groups.

 

[gopunk]

First, by over-emphasizing Asian American success, it de-emphasizes the problems Asian Americans continue to face from racial discrimination in all areas of public and private life.

i seriously doubt that saying asians are smart or some crap like that is going to result in any large increase in discrimination against asians. the only significant aspect of life where asians are discriminated against is possibly dating... but hey, you can't force people to like people they don't like. it's just the way the cookie crumbles.

Second, by misrepresenting Asian American success as proof that America provides equal opportunities for those who conform and work hard, it excuses American society from careful scrutiny on issues of race in general, and on the persistence of racism against Asian Americans in particular

doesn't matter what it excuses, if it's true, it's true. by ignoring the differences between minorities, it excuses specific minorites from examining what they could possibly be doing wrong.

 

[Capn]

"it means we get pissed on when entering college and in other things where other "minorities" get special treatment. "

That's an interesting statement, so then by extension all white kids get pissed on when entering college?

Do you feel you should get special treatment? If so, why?

 

[gopunk]

This is exactly my point...when the government uses demographics to see where and who needs help the most...Asians are usually excluded yet many do not see that Asians also encompass your 2nd group....so the people in the 2nd group are left unhelped

i totally agree.

one thing that does piss me off about this model minority stuff is that a lot of "minority" scholarships are not available to asians. what kind of CRAP is that? we're a minority! there's even less of us than there are blacks! GRR.

 

[Looney]

Well, here's my family history:

We were what are called 'Vietnamese Bridge People'... which is the Chinese that escaped Mao Communism from the north by crossing these 'bridges'. In Vietnam, we were extremely wealthy, and when the NVs finally took over, they were persecuting all the Chinese, especially the wealthy ones. So my cousin, who at the time was in his early 20s, help organize a boat to leave. I'm not sure how many people got on this boat, but it was completely packed with people... and to get on the boat, it costed LOTS of gold (thankfully it was my family that organized it, so we didn't... so every one of us, which includes 13 of my dad's brothers and sisters alone, got on). Out in the open seas, we were apparently robbed by pirates, who took all the gold and valuables. Well, landed in Malaysia in 79 (i was 3 at the time), and stayed in an immigration camp until we were sponsored over by a Christian couple.

When we arrived here, 5 of the families lived in one big house, and the other families lived in others. 22 years later, most of us are business owners, own our houses, and every single kid in the family has gone to University... including me, and i spent 18-21 incarcerated up here in Canada (my dad went to college too at the age of 40). Not a single person in my family has ever been on welfare, and i remember my dad berating a friend of his that was on welfare, telling him he's got all this opportunity for him and his kids, and all he's going to do is mooch off the system? All this coming into a culture that is completely different than the one you just left (imagine the culture shock, i was too young to notice it myself). Not knowing the language, or even having a dollar in your pocket. And now everybody speaks English in my family, and money is no longer a problem.

And this isn't with just my family... i honestly don't know of a single asian living on welfare.

And no, Asians aren't naturally more intelligent. It is the work ethic... you can either spend 5 hours a day playing basketball, and you'll be good in basketball, and be popular around the courts. Or you can spend 5 hours a day reading, and be damn smart, and become a biochemist working on the cure for Aids. That's all it is, how you devote your time. It's just Asians have historically placed more importance on education. The Confucian system, which has been in place for thousands of years, aside from the imperial family, is not base on class. It's based on education. If you wanted a public office, you had to pass the Confucian exams... so a lowly farmer, if he could afford for his son to be educated, could have that son become a government official if he wanted. That's why the Chinese people place such importance in education, it has ALWAYS been with us.

 

[HamSupLo]

Often, opponents of affirmative action like to use Asians as an example to show that minorities are doing well enough and the effects of past injustices have been overcome. It's easy to see that relative to the population in the U.S., Asians are disproportionally respresented at college campuses.

The flaw in the model minority myth is that it lumps "Asians" into one big homogenous socioeconomic category. The model minority myth is clearly just a myth. It intentionally overlooks at the other ethnic groups in the Asian community that are struggling. People don't notice the South East Asian communities that aren't visible like the successful Chinese and Taiwanese. There's large numbers of Asian Americans working in coporate America, but the glass ceiling still persists in that Asians make up only a small number of managerial and executive positions. Model minority advocates also like to point out the high per capita income of Asian households, but they fail to take into account that those households have more individuals so of course gross income would be higher. They also fail to acknowledge the high rates of poverty among other Asian ethnic groups.

It's an insidious attempt by conservatives to brainwash society into thinking that everything is fine and dandy now for minorities in this country. The Asian American community needs to continue being vigilant. Don't let them use the model minority cause to pit one group against the other.

 

[glen]

<< i honestly don't know of a single asian living on welfare. >>


Surely there must be one somewhere.
Does ANYONE know of a single Asian family ANYWHERE on welfare?

 

[datalink7]

<< Often, opponents of affirmative action like to use Asians as an example to show that minorities are doing well enough and the effects of past injustices have been overcome. It's easy to see that relative to the population in the U.S., Asians are disproportionally respresented at college campuses.

The flaw in the model minority myth is that it lumps "Asians" into one big homogenous socioeconomic category. The model minority myth is clearly just a myth. It intentionally overlooks at the other ethnic groups in the Asian community that are struggling. People don't notice the South East Asian communities that aren't visible like the successful Chinese and Taiwanese. There's large numbers of Asian Americans working in coporate America, but the glass ceiling still persists in that Asians make up only a small number of managerial and executive positions. Model minority advocates also like to point out the high per capita income of Asian households, but they fail to take into account that those households have more individuals so of course gross income would be higher. They also fail to acknowledge the high rates of poverty among other Asian ethnic groups.

It's an insidious attempt by conservatives to brainwash society into thinking that everything is fine and dandy now for minorities in this country. The Asian American community needs to continue being vigilant. Don't let them use the model minority cause to pit one group against the other. >>



Heh... I am against affirmative action, and on many issues I would be considered a liberal. So don't lump all anti-affirmative action people into the conservative group.

 

[Nefrodite]

That's an interesting statement, so then by extension all white kids get pissed on when entering college?

Do you feel you should get special treatment? If so, why?

heh no, i'm just pointing out the irony that the smaller of several minorities isn't considered one no special treatment, more of us would get into certain schools on merit alone i think

 

[Looney]

Surely there must be one somewhere.
Does ANYONE know of a single Asian family ANYWHERE on welfare?

I didn't say there are NO asians living on welfare.

 

[weezergirl]

<< Well, here's my family history:

We were what are called 'Vietnamese Bridge People'... which is the Chinese that escaped Mao Communism from the north by crossing these 'bridges'. In Vietnam, we were extremely wealthy, and when the NVs finally took over, they were persecuting all the Chinese, especially the wealthy ones. So my cousin, who at the time was in his early 20s, help organize a boat to leave. I'm not sure how many people got on this boat, but it was completely packed with people... and to get on the boat, it costed LOTS of gold (thankfully it was my family that organized it, so we didn't... so every one of us, which includes 13 of my dad's brothers and sisters alone, got on). Out in the open seas, we were apparently robbed by pirates, who took all the gold and valuables. Well, landed in Malaysia in 79 (i was 3 at the time), and stayed in an immigration camp until we were sponsored over by a Christian couple.

When we arrived here, 5 of the families lived in one big house, and the other families lived in others. 22 years later, most of us are business owners, own our houses, and every single kid in the family has gone to University... including me, and i spent 18-21 incarcerated up here in Canada (my dad went to college too at the age of 40). Not a single person in my family has ever been on welfare, and i remember my dad berating a friend of his that was on welfare, telling him he's got all this opportunity for him and his kids, and all he's going to do is mooch off the system? All this coming into a culture that is completely different than the one you just left (imagine the culture shock, i was too young to notice it myself). Not knowing the language, or even having a dollar in your pocket. And now everybody speaks English in my family, and money is no longer a problem.

And this isn't with just my family... i honestly don't know of a single asian living on welfare.
>>



wow, this is my family's life story! when my parents came over they had 2 kids (and a few months later had me) and later on my brother and they started out with nothing in their pockets (they also got robbed while on the boat over). my dad worked 2 jobs (even one as a pizza delivery man) and my mom also worked. neither knew english. Now 20 years later they have 2 daughters who have finished and graduated from university and also myself who will be graduating next year. My younger brother will be entering university by next year. I can say my parents are pretty well off, they live in a pretty spacious 2 story house, own 3 cars, and can buy whatever they want. America is truly the only place where hard work can make you successful.

Oh and i'd also like to mention that I grew up in oklahoma, where there were practically NO asians yet somehow almost every graduating class the valedictorian was an asian. I"m not sure waht the reasoning behind all of this is, but I can assure you that not every asian is smart. and i think most asian kids know what their parents had to go through for this "better life" and are reluctant to just let it all go down the drain. my parents definitely instilled in me a lot of ambition and discipline. i think that that has helped all of my brothers and sisters to get so far.

 

[HamSupLo]

sorry, I forgot to take you in account, datalink7. See, it sucks to be overlooked

 

[glen]

<< I didn't say there are NO asians living on welfare. >>


No, I did.
I think you made a good point.
I would like to know the number of Asians on Welfare.

 

[Looney]

wow, this is my family's life story! when my parents came over they had 2 kids (and a few months later had me) and later on my brother and they started out with nothing in their pockets (they also got robbed while on the boat over). my dad worked 2 jobs (even one as a pizza delivery man) and my mom also worked. neither knew english. Now 20 years later they have 2 daughters who have finished and graduated from university and also myself who will be graduating next year. My younger brother will be entering university by next year. I can say my parents are pretty well off, they live in a pretty spacious 2 story house, own 3 cars, and can buy whatever they want. America is truly the only place where hard work can make you successful.

LOL you have no idea how many people i've ran into that had the pirates robbed them story... either they were on the same ship (left in 79), or it was an epidemic of pirates. Did you land in Malaysia as well?

Oh and i'd also like to mention that I grew up in oklahoma, where there were practically NO asians yet somehow almost every graduating class the valedictorian was an asian

Wow, how the heck did you landed in Oklahoma?

Personally, i grew up with lots of other asian kids to hang around. Great childhood, i wasn't teased that badly, just middleschool, and that only lasted a year (i skipped grade 5, so i was a year younger than most grade 6s).