Poll: Do you support Everybody Draw Mohammed Day?

[Infohawk]

Die-hard left-wingers like Craig are assuming that people only disrespect Islam to hurt people's feelings. If that's the case then we can assume Craig likes to debate conservatives on this forum simply to be malicious. He and other liberals who poke fun at conservatives must be evil jerks.

Or, alternatively, we can agree that attacking ideas and symbols is always fair game, no matter how "holy" some jackass considers them to be.

 

[Infohawk]

You still don't get the difference between 'right to offend' versus whether it's right to offend. I can tell a stranger on the street she is terribly ugly as my 'right'. That doesn't mean I should.

Awful analogy. Physical traits cannot be changed. Religion is a choice.

 

[bfdd]

Exactly, and include conservatives in there; they are self-righteous assholes too.

I find most people who strongly identify themselves with a group are self righteous assholes.

 

[Infohawk]

I find most people who strongly identify themselves with a group are self righteous assholes.

Which is why Moonbeam is great. He is really open minded and has a unique perspective on things. He's true free spirit with the heart of a poet. He doesn't just identify with liberals or anything. Lulz.

 

[Jaskalas]

Awful analogy. Physical traits cannot be changed. Religion is a choice.

Physical traits are not imposed on others as a religion is.

 

[nonlnear]

Physical traits are not imposed on others as a religion is.

Circumcision and the like notwithstanding...

 

[Jaskalas]

Circumcision and the like notwithstanding...

Due to... religious reasons.... ?

*backs away slowly

 

[Jaskalas]

You and I disagree insofar as we like to eat our beef. That's not license to have 'cow slaughter in front of hindu churches day', even if some hindus threatened violence.

Your analogies of something wrong always involve walking up to, physically confronting the victim, as opposed to something done on your own land. That seems to be quite a difference.

You know any Mosques that will have Qurans burning in front of them tomorrow?

That's the issue here, the expression of hate and animosity involved that's wrong.

So when the Democrats attack western religions, it is done with style. It's in a way that's acceptable to you. Well burning the Quran and drawing Mohammed is acceptable to me.

This isn't 'exposing' something with satire, it's simply violating them for the sake of causing distress - and glee among those who like to cause them distress.

I'm sure Christians and Catholics could say the same of their detractors.

Just because Islam is foreign and often involves brown people doesn't mean you get to run around and play the victim card with it. It is not wrong or a hate crime to oppose a religion. I hardly see a victim when a free people express their opposition.

Who really would be the victim here?

The religion that is opposed, or the opposition that Democrats work to silence?

 

[zinfamous]

Here's a hot tip for you. If someone thinks a picture of a historical figure is "haram," that person is unreasonable and deserves to be mocked.

You're not one to make friends that often, are you?

...and perhaps not well-traveled?


Perhaps we're interpreting this in different situations. For me, I have no problem making jokes about Muhammed, drawing pictures, offending, whatever. and certainly with the type of Muslims that don't give a damn.

When I read a comment like yours, I see you as the type of person that, upon being introduced to a person and told they are Muslim, you'd immediately try to push their buttons about faith, insult them for shits. I'm not saying you would, but that's kind of what your comment implies. Or perhaps they might laugh, then kindly ask you to be a bit more sensitive, or simply show their sensitivity to such jokes in an obvious visual way.

So, is it after being told that they are sensitive, you feel it is your right to either push them further on that, or simply disregard them as thoughtful, worthwhile people?

As much as you, I think the idea is lunacy, more or less, but I've never found a reason to push someone on it. Certainly not if they aren't going out of their way to make sure that I don't discomfort them somehow.

 

[Infohawk]

You're not one to make friends that often, are you?

...and perhaps not well-traveled?


Perhaps we're interpreting this in different situations. For me, I have no problem making jokes about Muhammed, drawing pictures, offending, whatever. and certainly with the type of Muslims that don't give a damn.

When I read a comment like yours, I see you as the type of person that, upon being introduced to a person and told they are Muslim, you'd immediately try to push their buttons about faith, insult them for shits. I'm not saying you would, but that's kind of what your comment implies. Or perhaps they might laugh, then kindly ask you to be a bit more sensitive, or simply show their sensitivity to such jokes in an obvious visual way.

So, is it after being told that they are sensitive, you feel it is your right to either push them further on that, or simply disregard them as thoughtful, worthwhile people?

As much as you, I think the idea is lunacy, more or less, but I've never found a reason to push someone on it. Certainly not if they aren't going out of their way to make sure that I don't discomfort them somehow.

If you thinking I have no friends or have not traveled makes you feel better about not having better arguments, I'm not going to stop you from doing that.

It is every free person's right to call religion bullshit if they feel it is, regardless of whether this hurts people's feelings. I doubt you disagree with that.

 

[TheVrolok]

No, but then again I do not go out of my way to intentionally piss people off.

Do I support the freedom of people to be able to draw Muhammad just to piss people off? Yes

This.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Who really would be the victim here?

No matter what, you are always going to be the victim.

 

[nonlnear]

Due to... religious reasons.... ?

*backs away slowly

A while back, yes. Nowadays I would say most circumcisions in the US are more a matter of fashion and habit than religious observance.

I didn't insert the comment to make a significant point or to be contrary. I just threw it in to moderate a slightly overbroad (but largely accurate) claim. I do that sometimes...

 

[Chaotic42]

Yes. We need fewer adherents to crazy organized religions, not more. Anything we can do dilute the insanity is good.

 

[Craig234]

Your analogies of something wrong always involve walking up to, physically confronting the victim, as opposed to something done on your own land. That seems to be quite a difference.

You know any Mosques that will have Qurans burning in front of them tomorrow?

It's an irrelevant difference, that simply makes the analogy easier without haivng to deal with irrelevant details like a 'cow slaughter day' out on a ranch not having much impact, because it's too much like everyday meat industry slaughter - the analogy to a 'draw Mohammed day' is much closer when it's put in Hindus' faces.

And oh by the way, there are reports of other threatened Quran burnings tomorrow - which may or may not be outside Mosques, makes no real difference to the principle.

So when the Democrats attack western religions, it is done with style. It's in a way that's acceptable to you.

Fluffy idiocy saying nothing.

Well burning the Quran and drawing Mohammed is acceptable to me.

Making you an ass. Even atheists don't make a habit of doing things that are offensive to religions simply to offend them as their way of making a point. But you are in favor of it.

I'm sure Christians and Catholics could say the same of their detractors.

Not with any justification. Note all the examples you back up your claim with.

Crickets.

Just because Islam is foreign and often involves brown people doesn't mean you get to run around and play the victim card with it. It is not wrong or a hate crime to oppose a religion. I hardly see a victim when a free people express their opposition.

As I said, I strongly oppose things in Islam, and I listed a number of them. I do NOT support burning a Quran or creating an image of Mohammed, which are not about any legitimate 'protest', but are simply aimed at hurting and offending people for no reason but to hurt and offend them.

Go have a protest for gay equality outside a Mosque, and I'll cheer you on. Burn a Quran at the event and I'll oppose it.
[/QUOTE]

 

[bfdd]

Craig234, I have to somewhat disagree. Sure there are a lot of people who are doing these things to spite Muslims, but there are those who are doing it to express the freedom to trash anything they fucking feel like.

 

[Infohawk]

Go have a protest for gay equality outside a Mosque, and I'll cheer you on. Burn a Quran at the event and I'll oppose it.

Homosexuals are against Islam. By protesting for gay rights your only point would be to insult Islam. No? Your point would be to express support for gay rights? Well then hopefully you can understand how some would see burning a Quran as supporting free speech. Get over yourself and your double-standards please

 

[Rainsford]

Homosexuals are against Islam. By protesting for gay rights your only point would be to insult Islam. No? Your point would be to express support for gay rights? Well then hopefully you can understand how some would see burning a Quran as supporting free speech. Get over yourself and your double-standards please

Well it's all about motivation, isn't it? If you're big on pushing free speech, then maybe burning a Koran is a good symbol of that. If you're a raging Islamophobe, then burning a Koran is a good example of THAT.

And let's be honest, this pastor has flat out said that Islam is the religion of Satan (or however he phrased it). This isn't some card carrying member of the ACLU demonstrating the power of free speech, this is bigot demonstrating his bigotry. Motivation is the difference that makes all the difference.

 

[Infohawk]

Well it's all about motivation, isn't it? If you're big on pushing free speech, then maybe burning a Koran is a good symbol of that. If you're a raging Islamophobe, then burning a Koran is a good example of THAT.

And let's be honest, this pastor has flat out said that Islam is the religion of Satan (or however he phrased it). This isn't some card carrying member of the ACLU demonstrating the power of free speech, this is bigot demonstrating his bigotry. Motivation is the difference that makes all the difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_motive

I generally don't find that kind of reasoning persuasive. Take CanofWorms. He is obviously obsessed with bashing Europe because of a racist incident he had there. Whenever a story about Europe comes up, it's obvious that his motives are extremely dubious and clouding his judgment. At the same time, that doesn't make him wrong. What makes him wrong are his assumptions and poor arguments.

Similarly, the pastor would be not have a valid point if his arguments against Islam were based on a different set of superstitions. But remember this thread is about drawings, not the pastor.