POLL: Do we need to start teaching between right and wrong in schools again?

[CKent]

I'm all for it. Parents these days just can't be bothered, they're just too busy with their jobs (but not too busy to have the kid in the first place - perhaps they were too busy to use a rubber?) and random other sh!t, you know, this and that, whatever sounds like a good excuse for shoving off the responsibility for raising their little demons onto society. While it should be taught at home, it isn't, and the situation's getting worse.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: TWills2

Originally posted by: chambersc

Originally posted by: TWills2
I'm for Public School abolishment, so I really don't care. (no i'm not explaining myself. if really must know, pm.pm.pm.)

rofl, precious.

I always wonder how many people don't see the typo

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: TWills2

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Such a thing should NOT be religion-based, but rather, based on the Golden Rule.

Logical fallacy. The golden rule was a christian teaching and is therefore, religious.

The concept of "treat others the way you would like to be treated in return" itself has nothing to do with religion. It is simple common sense.

So christianity is common sense??? Where did the golden rule originate? Not 'common sense,' that much is certain. It was a teaching of Jesus. The reason the golden rule is so accepted these days imho is that it is the very rule out the bible that coincides with pluralistic/societal teaching. "don't touch me I don't touch you, I have my beliefs you have yours" etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity

 

[Flash1969]

Originally posted by: aplefka
As beneficial as it would be, it'd be hard to make sure there weren't some wackass teachers out there messing with kids. How about parents just do a better job inside the home?

It's quite obvious that isn't going to happen

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
It couldnt teach religion or it wouldnt make it in "public" schools. But the Golden Rule is still golden and should be taught.

Along with:


Littering, tagging, sexual assualt, theft and murder are BAD. Then tell them why its bad, and what could also happen to them if they get caught for any of these, or what effect it has on the other person or society. Now theyll know why that behavior is UNacceptable.

Sharing what you have with others, helping when you can, listening to other people, etc, are GOOD. Tell them why they are good. Now theyll know why that behavior is acceptable.

Pretty simple.

Now of course, you can mention precautions when trying to good things, as BAD people will try to take advantage, but why overall, its still good to help.

I agree with you there.

 

[fitzov]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged
I believe that formal logic, ethics, and debate should be taught.

Definitely. But I think parents would get pissed when their kids start asking intelligent questions about why they shouldn't do this or that. "Who the hell has been filling your head with this crap?" "Mom, haven't you ever heard of the Socratic Method?" "Just do what I say!" etc.

 

[Lonyo]

Basic philosophy/religion classes teaching the basis for religion and ethics would be good.
Discussion of the various forms of ethical systems and personal ideas and interpretations, why we have laws, why we should follow laws/moral guidelines etc.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: TWills2

Originally posted by: chambersc

Originally posted by: TWills2
I'm for Public School abolishment, so I really don't care. (no i'm not explaining myself. if really must know, pm.pm.pm.)

rofl, precious.

I always wonder how many people don't see the typo

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: TWills2

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Such a thing should NOT be religion-based, but rather, based on the Golden Rule.

Logical fallacy. The golden rule was a christian teaching and is therefore, religious.

The concept of "treat others the way you would like to be treated in return" itself has nothing to do with religion. It is simple common sense.

So christianity is common sense??? Where did the golden rule originate? Not 'common sense,' that much is certain. It was a teaching of Jesus. The reason the golden rule is so accepted these days imho is that it is the very rule out the bible that coincides with pluralistic/societal teaching. "don't touch me I don't touch you, I have my beliefs you have yours" etc.

Now where's that "You are an idiot" page again?
I really need to bookmark it.

 

[The Batt?sai]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
No, teaching isn't needed. Just beat the hell out of them every time they act up.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Who gets to decide what's right and wrong.

What about gay marriage?

The list goes on.

 

[piasabird]

People now what is right and what is wrong, they just choose what they want to do and then make excuses up. If no one ever calls them on their evil ways there is no reason to change their behavior. Ask any behavioral psychologist and they will tell you that children test the boundaries when they are young and growing up. It is up to the authority figure to set the boundaries. That is how children learn. If you set no boundaries they learn everything goes.

 

[Kenazo]

The idea of an ethics class intrigues me. I'm working on my CGA (kind of like a canadian CPA) and like 20% of our classes are ethics classes. I could see this stuff being greatly needed in a high school setting. My parents taught me well at home, but really so many parents are dropping the ball on this. It's like Sex ed, it should be taught at home, but it's not, so the school should be doing it.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Who gets to decide what's right and wrong.

What about gay marriage?

The list goes on.

True, but I mentioned some of the basics above, and at what grade to teach discretion. And I dont think this would be within the scope of basic civil, legal, behavior. Read my list a few posts up and see if you agree with it.

 

[sao123]

75% of the people on the earth cant even agree as to whats right and wrong...
with such non-uniform standards how are yuo going to teach a morality class without some parent saying... you aint teaching my kid that crap.

its a good idea in theory... but were too diversified for it to ever be effective.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Who gets to decide what's right and wrong.

What about gay marriage?

The list goes on.

True, but I mentioned some of the basics above, and at what grade to teach discretion. And I dont think this would be within the scope of basic civil, legal, behavior. Read my list a few posts up and see if you agree with it.

You can pretty much teach the 10 commandments, or at least don't steal, lie, murder- that sort of thing.

There is this "mission creep" that happens though. Everyone with an agenda will be all over this. We have it now, with social engineering projects, that parent's who do not agree with cannot opt out.

I simply don't trust people with an agenda, whatever it is not to have a field day.

 

[sandorski]

Kids are not Formally taught these Ideas/Values in School, but they exist and are taught Informally. Experience is really the best Teacher.

Later on in High School an Ethics Class seems like a good idea, even if it was more Philosophical in nature than than actually practical. Mind Expansion is the real purpose of Education, Pre-College/University can use more Thought Provoking Material and less Memorization of pat answers.

 

[tweakmm]

So what exactly is right and wrong? Who's right and wrong are we teaching?

 

[Doboji]

1) Schools are never a replacement for good parenting

2) Ethics and Morality are in no way exclusive to religion.

3) Morality and Ethics are not black and white... tey are shades of grey... where do we draw the lines... i.e abortion, stem cell research, war, God, death penalty...

even the most simple teaching of morality is dangerous.

-Max

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: TWills2

Originally posted by: chambersc

Originally posted by: TWills2
I'm for Public School abolishment, so I really don't care. (no i'm not explaining myself. if really must know, pm.pm.pm.)

rofl, precious.

I always wonder how many people don't see the typo

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: TWills2

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Such a thing should NOT be religion-based, but rather, based on the Golden Rule.

Logical fallacy. The golden rule was a christian teaching and is therefore, religious.

The concept of "treat others the way you would like to be treated in return" itself has nothing to do with religion. It is simple common sense.

So christianity is common sense??? Where did the golden rule originate? Not 'common sense,' that much is certain. It was a teaching of Jesus. The reason the golden rule is so accepted these days imho is that it is the very rule out the bible that coincides with pluralistic/societal teaching. "don't touch me I don't touch you, I have my beliefs you have yours" etc.

first of all the "golden rule" is actually a jewish teaching originally.... it was taught by Rabbi Hillel... I know people forget that there are other religions besides christianity.... but yeah... Hillel.... not Jesus

 

[Doboji]

I mean you can't even teach the basics...

Don't Kill

What if the person is going to kill you?

What if the person is going to kill someone else?

What if the person is in pain and wants to die?

What if the person killed someone else?

Don't steal

What if you need to steal in order to survive?

What if you need to steal in order to save someone else?

Can you buy an item that was stolen?

There is no easy basic right and wrng teachings...

 

[Pikachu]

I don't know why it's so complicated. It's not the teacher's job to punish kids... they aren't allowed to anyway. They should simply be given the option to boot problem students from their classroom. Those students can either go to private school, be home schooled or sent to a regional military type school where they CAN be punished effectively.

Just the threat of being sent to such a learning environment will be enough to deter most kids from causing a disturbance. The rest? f*ck 'em. Get them the hell out of my kid's class and I'll be happy. So will the teachers!

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Doboji
I mean you can't even teach the basics...

Don't Kill

What if the person is going to kill you?

What if the person is going to kill someone else?

What if the person is in pain and wants to die?

What if the person killed someone else?

Don't steal

What if you need to steal in order to survive?

What if you need to steal in order to save someone else?

Can you buy an item that was stolen?

There is no easy basic right and wrng teachings...

Yes there is.

 

[Dumac]

If they taught basic general rules, then it would be acceptable, but I know where I live the class would just morph into a christian learning center...

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Doboji
I mean you can't even teach the basics...

Don't Kill

What if the person is going to kill you?

What if the person is going to kill someone else?

What if the person is in pain and wants to die?

What if the person killed someone else?

Don't steal

What if you need to steal in order to survive?

What if you need to steal in order to save someone else?

Can you buy an item that was stolen?

There is no easy basic right and wrng teachings...

Yes there is.

And you want the schools to teach children the golden rule as the golden rule? Isn't that an automatic teaching anyway... Don't you hit johnny... would you want Johnny to hit you?

I don't see where this isn't already taught automatically.

-Max

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: Doboji
I mean you can't even teach the basics...

Don't Kill

What if the person is going to kill you?

What if the person is going to kill someone else?

What if the person is in pain and wants to die?

What if the person killed someone else?

Don't steal

What if you need to steal in order to survive?

What if you need to steal in order to save someone else?

Can you buy an item that was stolen?

There is no easy basic right and wrng teachings...

Please read my posts.

It IS easy to do this, but because of repsonses like this we are stuck. Everyone wants to argue but noone wants to get things done.

Ive stated that the basics are taught in 9th, reinforced in 10th, some exceptions like self denfense of life and property are taught in 11th, and if you get shot dead for stealing to survive that was your choice, but you suffer the consequence. Legality is settled by governments. If you dont like the law, change it, but until then its illegal and wrong (a graduated 12th grade topic for discussion). That doesnt mean that we cant teach these things because they arent settled. That is stupid. They will never be settled.

In the meantime you get out of control kids tagging, littering, raping, robbing, etc, etc, etc. And Im not saying this will stop as the result of teaching. But what I am saying is maybe 1 out of 1000 will develop a conscious.

Done.

 

[puffff]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Doboji
I mean you can't even teach the basics...

Don't Kill

What if the person is going to kill you?

What if the person is going to kill someone else?

What if the person is in pain and wants to die?

What if the person killed someone else?

Don't steal

What if you need to steal in order to survive?

What if you need to steal in order to save someone else?

Can you buy an item that was stolen?

There is no easy basic right and wrng teachings...

Yes there is.

While I agree, I can't help imagining that simply teaching 'do to others as you would have them do to you' would work.

Teacher: Would you want someone digging up your grave, taking your skull, and making a bong out of it?
Johnny: (Still stoned from last night.) Uh, my head as a bong? Sweeeeeeeeet...