Poll: Do the survivors and the families of the Tulsa Race Massacre deserve reparations?

[mect]

Most of the affected population is dead.

And you don't think their descendants are also affected?

 

[Matt390]

There was never one single honest incident of a black man "looking at, or touching, or raping a white woman" in any of those incidents. Not one. It was just communities making a justification for torture and public murder. That's a fucking fact.

Believe women.

But seriously, when accusations match up with preconceived beliefs, people are much more likely to believe them. Combine this with mob "justice" and terrible things happen.

 

[Matt390]

And you don't think their descendants are also affected?

No man is an island.

 

[Matt390]

Take your pick.
View attachment 45216

Bombing a communist terrorist organization isnt a massacre. The civilians were collateral damage. Their black neighbors didnt like MOVE.

 

[mect]

No man is an island.

Of course, but there are events like this that occur with support of government agencies (or at least without their opposition) that have an impact on significant populations beyond what is experienced by the general population.

 

[HomerJS]

People against reparations for the Tulsa victims and their families have boxed themselves into a corner. All their stereotypes about black people they spout regularly, the Greenwood people were the polar opposite. Hard working, prosperous, upstanding citizens. The white man with help from the state, take all their shit, burn it to the ground and kill them. In the next breath they don't want anyone held accountable.

 

[Matt390]

People against reparations for the Tulsa victims and their families have boxed themselves into a corner. All their stereotypes about black people they spout regularly, the Greenwood people were the polar opposite. Hard working, prosperous, upstanding citizens. The white man with help from the state, take all their shit, burn it to the ground and kill them. In the next breath they don't want anyone held accountable.

They can seek compensation from the people that burned down the buildings and took their shit.

 

[Muse]

I would not say no, and I'm not saying this based on the OP's arguments, which I have not read, nor anyone else's here in this thread, but just based on my understanding of what happened June 1, 1921 in Tulsa. The only argument that has any substance I can imagine against reparations for the people who suffered that humongous catastrophe would be the 100 intervening years. However, the damage done these people was more than the death and destruction of their community and 300 estimated of its inhabitants. The coverup that followed was heinous and insidious. Reparations would do something significant to negate the coverup.

 

[HomerJS]

They can seek compensation from the people that burned down the buildings and took their shit.

That would be the City of Tulsa. Any problem with that?

 

[VW MAN]

They can seek compensation from the people that burned down the buildings and took their shit.

So after all your shit filled commentary its nice to know that you agree that government is at least partially responsible for what occured in Tulsa and that government should at least be on the hook for compensating people who as you say "burned down the buildings and took their shit". Maybe next you'll figure out that the Tulsa Massacre was much much worse then burning a few buildings and having some stuff taken from some people. It would be ideal if you actually educated yourself on the matter before flapping your gums and vomiting out bullshit....but doubtful you will even try...your kind rarely if ever does, instead they often choose to take the easy way out and do nothing more then parrot propagandized talking points like good dogs.

 

[HomerJS]

So after all your shit filled commentary its nice to know that you agree that government is at least partially responsible for what occured in Tulsa and that government should at least be on the hook for compensating people who as you say "burned down the buildings and took their shit". Maybe next you'll figure out that the Tulsa Massacre was much much worse then burning a few buildings and having some stuff taken from some people. It would be ideal if you actually educated yourself on the matter before flapping your gums and vomiting out bullshit....but doubtful you will even try...your kind rarely if ever does, instead they often choose to take the easy way out and do nothing more then parrot propagandized talking points like good dogs.

The government is fully responsible because they worked together with the Klan and other ill meaning whites. The government also engaged in the coverup of the massacre. The city of Tulsa owes big time

 

[Greenman]

People against reparations for the Tulsa victims and their families have boxed themselves into a corner. All their stereotypes about black people they spout regularly, the Greenwood people were the polar opposite. Hard working, prosperous, upstanding citizens. The white man with help from the state, take all their shit, burn it to the ground and kill them. In the next breath they don't want anyone held accountable.

This is disingenuous. If any of the perps were alive I'd be all for a trial followed by a trip to the gas chamber.
The real issue for me is how far back do we go looking for crimes, and who gets punished for them. There is no end to the list of people who have been wronged throughout history, it's impossible to make everyone whole again.

 

[Commodus]

This is disingenuous. If any of the perps were alive I'd be all for a trial followed by a trip to the gas chamber.
The real issue for me is how far back do we go looking for crimes, and who gets punished for them. There is no end to the list of people who have been wronged throughout history, it's impossible to make everyone whole again.

The Tulsa massacre is certainly recent enough, I'd say. There are still living survivors; the damages are both profound and still echoing through society; it was only relatively recently that there was a significant, formal acknowledgment of what happened. Like I mentioned earlier... even if you don't think there should be reparations for slavery, there's a strong case for reparations here.

(I'm reviving the thread because someone linked a TED talk recapping the massacre; I'll link that below for convenience's sake.)

 

[HomerJS]

This is disingenuous. If any of the perps were alive I'd be all for a trial followed by a trip to the gas chamber.
The real issue for me is how far back do we go looking for crimes, and who gets punished for them. There is no end to the list of people who have been wronged throughout history, it's impossible to make everyone whole again.

How many times do I have to say it? The City of Tulsa is one of the perps. They aided in the killings, lootings and burnings and aerial bombings.

Why can't you understand that??

BTW - If we entertain your logic what is the arbitrary cutoff elapsed time when we don't hold anyone responsible? I'll pick one, let's say 3 years.

 

[HomerJS]

This is disingenuous. If any of the perps were alive I'd be all for a trial followed by a trip to the gas chamber.
The real issue for me is how far back do we go looking for crimes, and who gets punished for them. There is no end to the list of people who have been wronged throughout history, it's impossible to make everyone whole again.

I suggest you watch the ted talk @Commodus posted. Come back to us and tell us again why the survivors and their families don't deserve shit

 

[HomerJS]

Possibly a glimmer of hope for the survivors of Tulsa and their families.
Tulsa Race Massacre reparations lawsuit can proceed | Interlochen Public Radio

Unfortunately for the likes of @Greenman there are 3 survivors from that massacre. His entire argument against compensation was "slippery slope", "how far back in history do we go to compensate people for the wrongs against them?" I guess living people don't count.

Fortunately for the sake of justice we still have 3 survivors

This is disingenuous. If any of the perps were alive I'd be all for a trial followed by a trip to the gas chamber.
The real issue for me is how far back do we go looking for crimes, and who gets punished for them. There is no end to the list of people who have been wronged throughout history, it's impossible to make everyone whole again.

 

[hal2kilo]

People against reparations for the Tulsa victims and their families have boxed themselves into a corner. All their stereotypes about black people they spout regularly, the Greenwood people were the polar opposite. Hard working, prosperous, upstanding citizens. The white man with help from the state, take all their shit, burn it to the ground and kill them. In the next breath they don't want anyone held accountable.

As if this is the only provable incident.

Wilmington insurrection of 1898 - Wikipedia

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I would say:

Direct survivors.
Children of those directly affected.
Grandchildren of those directly affected, but a lesser percentage.

Further removed than that, no.

 

[tweaker2]

It's the symbolism and recognizance that crimes against humanity, the Constitution and BOR were perpetrated against innocent citizens of the nation that's of importance. Reparations in this is case is a symbolic gesture more than anything else. If there are monies involved, a portion of it could be dedicated toward education, social services, etc. for the betterment of the survivors and African Americans nationwide because this issue is being considered at the federal level of gov't.

 

[Lezunto]

The argument for Reparations for Chattel Slavery does not even need to be debated.

Any recompense would be for centuries of unpaid labor, according to Randall Robinson who wrote extensively about this issue in his book "The Debt."

But I doubt any recompense would be forthcoming from folks who assiduously block Blacks from voting, wearing their hair in braids or in natural styles, yanking books authored by Blacks from libraries, hiding their history and dismissing their accomplishments, milestones and achievements.

These forum battles over skin color and historical wrongs and sufferings are tiresome and quite illogical.

This chit happened and should not be ignored.

 

[HomerJS]

A clear message sent to every black person in this country.

Judge dismisses lawsuit seeking reparations for the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre

An Oklahoma judge has thrown out a lawsuit seeking reparations for the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre, dashing an effort to obtain some measure of legal justice by survivors of the deadly racist rampage. Ju...

www.winnipegfreepress.com

 

[akugami]

The whitewashing continues...from enslaving Africans (and those of other races), and calling it "involuntary relocation" to denying things like slavery even existed, to denying atrocious acts in history as being racially motivated.

And you got good ol' Uncle Tom (Clarence Thomas" saying "yessuh" "nosuh" to his masters.

 

[pmv]

And you got good ol' Uncle Tom (Clarence Thomas" saying "yessuh" "nosuh" to his masters.

I don't really understand Clarence Thomas's politics. I've read accounts of it but still couldn't make sense of it. I don't think it's anything like as simple as you imply.

I've seen his views described as "right-wing Afro pessimism". That is, a similar loss of belief in liberal anti-racism that influenced the Black Power movement, but with a right-wing spin on it, that seems (to me) to have a lot to do with his class background.

He started off, apparently, as a leftish sort of black-nationalist. And I've seen it claimed that he's _still_ a kind of black nationalist, just with a right-wing slant.

This seems to cover the same territory.

The profound pessimism of Clarence Thomas

How "the sense of defeat over the Black freedom struggle" shaped the Supreme Court justice’s thinking.

www.vox.com

I don't pretend to understand where he's coming from, but it sounds a more complex position than just being an "Uncle Tom".

 

[akugami]

I don't really understand Clarence Thomas's politics. I've read accounts of it but still couldn't make sense of it. I don't think it's anything like as simple as you imply.

I've seen his views described as "right-wing Afro pessimism". That is, a similar loss of belief in liberal anti-racism that influenced the Black Power movement, but with a right-wing spin on it, that seems (to me) to have a lot to do with his class background.

He started off, apparently, as a leftish sort of black-nationalist. And I've seen it claimed that he's _still_ a kind of black nationalist, just with a right-wing slant.

This seems to cover the same territory.

The profound pessimism of Clarence Thomas

How "the sense of defeat over the Black freedom struggle" shaped the Supreme Court justice’s thinking.

www.vox.com

I don't pretend to understand where he's coming from, but it sounds a more complex position than just being an "Uncle Tom".

I read the Vox article. It's a lot of opinion, and does give food for thought.

But I just get can't get over the fact that he has a white right wing nut job of a wife, who was actively trying to overturn a legal vote, he had a hidden billionaire sugar daddy, and he seems to be voting to strike down laws or interpret laws in ways that takes away freedom from certain classes.

I myself am not a fan of affirmative action, but I understand why it is needed. I understand that people of color actually had more opportunities due to affirmative action. Thomas voted to strike down affirmative action. Thomas also voted to take away women's rights to their own body, by revoking a women's right to an abortion.

I can't help but feel that Thomas would be perfectly fine with re-enacting Jim Crow laws.

I apologize to everyone for taking this thread in a different direction.

 

[Jaskalas]

A clear message sent to every black person in this country.

In a country full of people struggling, our hearts are closed. There will be no righting of wrongs.
I view my answer for this is the same as for affirmative action.

Heal greater societal wounds, and then people will be free enough to look upon one another with empathy and not jealously or cruelty. Hearts would be opened and we may address these ills as we should.