Poll - Atomic weapons in World War II

TitanDiddly

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Dec 8, 2003
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Do you think that the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki at the end of World War II were justified, or a good solution?

If the option had been available, would you support the usage of nuclear weapons to end the conflict in Europe as well?

Personally, I think that atomic weapons are a ugly way to get things done. I think that in the context of the Pacific war in WWII, their usage was the best solution. Using conventional 'island-hopping' tactics would have most likely resulted in more deaths on both sides. This was largely due to the Japanese 'do or die' code of ethics- i.e. swearing to never surrender, down to the death of every Japanese citizen.

I think that atomic weapons could have also been used in the European front, had they been available. However, it would have been more difficult to justify it early on in the 'trench warfare' phase, when it would have saved the most lives. Ideally, it could have been used early on, before the massive Russian deaths. I don't think that the public would have accepted this solution before it could have had a signifigant advantage. Also, it probably would preempt the use of atomic weapons on Japan later on, because the US population would bein shock, and the Japanese would know what they had coming their way ahead of time. I don't think that using atomic weapons on the European front would have caused Japanese surrender, however.

Lastly, how do you think that the world would be different if atomic weapons hadn't been used on the Pacific front, or if they had been used on the European front , and/or both?


No, this isn't a homework assignment. I'm just curious.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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Absolutely, if it would have brought the war to an earlier end like it did with Japan.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
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they predicted a million allied casualties if they had to invade japan.

since we used a nuke, the tally of 1,000,000 casualties dwindled to 0. id say it was worth it.
 

acemcmac

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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there was no need to nuke germany. they weren't on a fortified island with a "fight to the death" mentailty. we had the momentum anyway....

wtf are you talking about "sluggish?"
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
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Originally posted by: acemcmac
they weren't on a fortified island with a "fight to the death" mentailty."

maybe you missed history class on the day the battle of berlin was discussed.
 

acemcmac

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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and wtf is this trench warfare stage you speak of? the arden? moot point... the lutwaffe was destroyed, allied victory was inevitable.
 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
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Japan is an island. Fallout from bombs in Japan will not drift to France, Poland, the Netherlands, Denmark, and many other nations we were allied with.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
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Originally posted by: acemcmac
and wtf is this trench warfare stage you speak of? the arden? moot point... the lutwaffe was destroyed, allied victory was inevitable.

allied victory was inevitable with japan too...whats your point? just because allied victory was inevitable with germany, doesnt mean they didnt extract millions of casualties out of the allies before they were finally licked.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
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Originally posted by: notfred
Japan is an island. Fallout from bombs in Japan will not drift to France, Poland, the Netherlands, Denmark, and many other nations we were allied with.

except for 1 small fact....we didnt know about nuclear fallout at the time. ;)
 

TitanDiddly

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Dec 8, 2003
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Originally posted by: notfred
Japan is an island. Fallout from bombs in Japan will not drift to France, Poland, the Netherlands, Denmark, and many other nations we were allied with.

It's close the China and Korea, etc. though. I'm not sure, would the prevailing wind take it out to sea?
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
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In a purely hypothetical sense, the nukes were the lesser of two evils. Invading Japan with no beachhead would have been unimaginably costly and would have cost both countries far more lives than were lost in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In that regard they were the right tactic. In facts, students of the "just war" philosophy could argue that they were the only moral tactic as whichever path resulted in the fewest casualties would be proper.

In Germany things were different. Would we have used them and should we have used them? Yes, if there was no other choice we probably would have. It was never even close to being necessary. As most are aware, we had a serious issue with fissionable materials at the time, it's not like we had bombs to spare. There wasn't one ready to have used on Germany and if there was, we would not then have had a 2nd one to use on Japan. As a legitimate tactic though, it was unnecessary. Invading Germany didn't present the same logistical problem that we had with Japan. Island invasions are particularly costly. Establishing bases costs a lot of lives are you're defenseless early on. With Germany that wasn't the case. We had taken back enough of Europe that our tanks could roll into Berlin virtually unopposed. It cost fewer lives to invade than it would have to nuke. If the leaders had enough uranium/plutonium at the time and Germany could not have been taken out the way it happened, I have no doubt we would have used the bomb.

It's kind of like asking what if Spartacus had a Piper Cub though. The scenario is so far fetched that even discussing it is an exercise in futility.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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Originally posted by: notfred
Japan is an island. Fallout from bombs in Japan will not drift to France, Poland, the Netherlands, Denmark, and many other nations we were allied with.
Back then, I don't think they would have cared if the timing worked out. When they dropped the first one on Japan they weren't even completely sure if the reaction would cease instead of consuming the entire Earth. Now THAT'S making a hard call! :p
 

TitanDiddly

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Dec 8, 2003
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Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
In a purely hypothetical sense, the nukes were the lesser of two evils. Invading Japan with no beachhead would have been unimaginably costly and would have cost both countries far more lives than were lost in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In that regard they were the right tactic. In facts, students of the "just war" philosophy could argue that they were the only moral tactic as whichever path resulted in the fewest casualties would be proper.

In Germany things were different. Would we have used them and should we have used them? Yes, if there was no other choice we probably would have. It was never even close to being necessary. As most are aware, we had a serious issue with fissionable materials at the time, it's not like we had bombs to spare. There wasn't one ready to have used on Germany and if there was, we would not then have had a 2nd one to use on Japan. As a legitimate tactic though, it was unnecessary. Invading Germany didn't present the same logistical problem that we had with Japan. Island invasions are particularly costly. Establishing bases costs a lot of lives are you're defenseless early on. With Germany that wasn't the case. We had taken back enough of Europe that our tanks could roll into Berlin virtually unopposed. It cost fewer lives to invade than it would have to nuke. If the leaders had enough uranium/plutonium at the time and Germany could not have been taken out the way it happened, I have no doubt we would have used the bomb.

It's kind of like asking what if Spartacus had a Piper Cub though. The scenario is so far fetched that even discussing it is an exercise in futility.

Hmm... intelligent discussion at length... ATOT... hold on a second.
 
Jan 31, 2002
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Originally posted by: PhasmatisNox
Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
In a purely hypothetical sense, the nukes were the lesser of two evils. Invading Japan with no beachhead would have been unimaginably costly and would have cost both countries far more lives than were lost in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In that regard they were the right tactic. In facts, students of the "just war" philosophy could argue that they were the only moral tactic as whichever path resulted in the fewest casualties would be proper.

In Germany things were different. Would we have used them and should we have used them? Yes, if there was no other choice we probably would have. It was never even close to being necessary. As most are aware, we had a serious issue with fissionable materials at the time, it's not like we had bombs to spare. There wasn't one ready to have used on Germany and if there was, we would not then have had a 2nd one to use on Japan. As a legitimate tactic though, it was unnecessary. Invading Germany didn't present the same logistical problem that we had with Japan. Island invasions are particularly costly. Establishing bases costs a lot of lives are you're defenseless early on. With Germany that wasn't the case. We had taken back enough of Europe that our tanks could roll into Berlin virtually unopposed. It cost fewer lives to invade than it would have to nuke. If the leaders had enough uranium/plutonium at the time and Germany could not have been taken out the way it happened, I have no doubt we would have used the bomb.

It's kind of like asking what if Spartacus had a Piper Cub though. The scenario is so far fetched that even discussing it is an exercise in futility.

Hmm... intelligent discussion at length... ATOT... hold on a second.

Duh, this is OT, not P&N.

- M4H
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
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Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: notfred
Japan is an island. Fallout from bombs in Japan will not drift to France, Poland, the Netherlands, Denmark, and many other nations we were allied with.
Back then, I don't think they would have cared if the timing worked out. When they dropped the first one on Japan they weren't even completely sure if the reaction would cease instead of consuming the entire Earth. Now THAT'S making a hard call! :p


That's wrong. When they dropped the first one on Japan it had been tested and they knew the reaction would not consume the atmosphere. Even on the first test that was dismissed as a fairly ridiculous possibility, on the order of a trillion to one shot. The war was over either way and we didn't at that time really NEED to bomb to win it. If the greatest minds of that generation thought that a chain reaction that destroyed the earth was truly possible it never would have even been tested. The fear over that happeneing has been greatly magnified over the years because it makes good theater.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: acemcmac
and wtf is this trench warfare stage you speak of? the arden? moot point... the lutwaffe was destroyed, allied victory was inevitable.

allied victory was inevitable with japan too...whats your point? just because allied victory was inevitable with germany, doesnt mean they didnt extract millions of casualties out of the allies before they were finally licked.

The thing is, in WWII we had the russians to take those casualties in Berlin, cruel as it is. The Russians were nowhere near prepared for an island invasion into Japan.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
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Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: acemcmac
and wtf is this trench warfare stage you speak of? the arden? moot point... the lutwaffe was destroyed, allied victory was inevitable.

allied victory was inevitable with japan too...whats your point? just because allied victory was inevitable with germany, doesnt mean they didnt extract millions of casualties out of the allies before they were finally licked.

The thing is, in WWII we had the russians to take those casualties in Berlin, cruel as it is. The Russians were nowhere near prepared for an island invasion into Japan.

russian/US/british/polish/canadian...yadda yadda....i thought "allied victory" and "allied casualties" were a combination last i knew.

and maybe the russians were not prepared, but they promised britian and america that they would take part in the war against japan after the war with germany ended.
 
Mar 22, 2002
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See, Japan is an island somewhat far away from our allies. Dropping an a-bomb in Germany would've created problems for all of Europe, including our allies. That's why we shouldn't have bomb Germany...Too many serious health problems to allies - if the radioactive material could have somehow been contained, then I'm all for bombing Germany...Well, back then I mean :p
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
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Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
See, Japan is an island somewhat far away from our allies. Dropping an a-bomb in Germany would've created problems for all of Europe, including our allies. That's why we shouldn't have bomb Germany...Too many serious health problems to allies - if the radioactive material could have somehow been contained, then I'm all for bombing Germany...Well, back then I mean :p

you guys are forgetting the fact that at the time we had no idea about nuclear fallout. the question states "would you have..." That means you must place yourself in the shoes of the people at the time, in which case you would have no idea about nuclear fallout