POLL: Are You in Favor of a Fat Tax?

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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: eits
the difference with a smoking tax is that cigarettes affect other people... not just the smoker.
And smoking taxes don't affect people who don't buy cigarettes, only smokers pay them. You can't say the same thing with a fat tax.

My issue with cig taxes though is that government is now hooked on the revenue. In case you haven't noticed, government is the 800 lb. gorilla (no pun intended) in this country, and they now make as much per pack as the tobacco companies do, yet with considerably more power than Big Tobacco ever had. What do you think government is going to do when that revenue starts to dry up? Whole agencies and supported non-profits (like the American Legacy Foundation) now feed off those taxes. You think they're just going to give up their jobs when the time comes, mission accomplished?
 

loic2003

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
3,844
0
0
what? make people responsible and pay for their own actions? That's just not the american way. Surely i's against human rights or something? People should be able to do whatever they want, whenever, and if it goes wrong, there should be someone to sue.
 

LtPage1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2004
6,311
2
0
Absolutely. How about $1 on every fast food order over $5? You could determine "fast food" restaurants by a statistical threshold of calories/meal of the most popular menu items. I don't see how obesity is any more desirable than tobacco or alcohol, and I'll vote for as much of a sin tax on those as you could dream up.

Originally posted by: MrPickins
We need less government, not more.

Then you're of the opinion that people without health insurance should be kicked out of hospitals? Because either I pay for it when they can't afford their $87,000 hospital bill when they're dying at 46 (like I do now), or they pay for it with a fat tax.
Or you believe that we've no obligation to provide health care for our citizens, and so we shouldn't give it to anyone who can't afford it.

There's really no middle ground, as I see it.
 

BigJelly

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2002
1,717
0
0
Originally posted by: LtPage1
Absolutely. How about $1 on every fast food order over $5? You could determine "fast food" restaurants by a statistical threshold of calories/meal of the most popular menu items. I don't see how obesity is any more desirable than tobacco or alcohol, and I'll vote for as much of a sin tax on those as you could dream up.

Originally posted by: MrPickins
We need less government, not more.

Then you're of the opinion that people without health insurance should be kicked out of hospitals? Because either I pay for it when they can't afford their $87,000 hospital bill when they're dying at 46 (like I do now), or they pay for it with a fat tax.
Or you believe that we've no obligation to provide health care for our citizens, and so we shouldn't give it to anyone who can't afford it.

There's really no middle ground, as I see it.

I believe government has no obligation to provide health care for its citizens. The role of government should be to provide us what we CANNOT provide for ourselves; not to provide us what we do not want to pay for (of course we pay for it up the @ss in taxes). There is a big difference between those who can't afford it and those that don't want to pay for it. Funny how most people that say they can't afford health care have cars, cable, and other various luxuries that when you add them up could easily pay for health care. Government is extremely inefficient (time and money wise); if government gets deeper into health care we're all screwed.

Katrina is the prime example of happens when people depend on government; they ignore all the warnings and wait for government to help them after the fact. Government is slow and some die waiting. Then when government does help 1/3 of the billions sent gets "lost" in corruption and incompentancy. And even after being given the money the people sit on their thumbs waiting for government to literally fix their houses.
 

Smartazz

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2005
6,128
0
76
I think that when you go for checkups with your doctor, he can report you to the government if you are legally obese. This might encourage our country to lose some weight. What serious percussions would this bring our country?
edit: and during war time the tax should go up until the point we need rations to feed our troops over seas.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Originally posted by: Smartazz
I think that when you go for checkups with your doctor, he can report you to the government if you are legally obese. This might encourage our country to lose some weight. What serious percussions would this bring our country?
edit: and during war time the tax should go up until the point we need rations to feed our troops over seas.

that sounds too orwellian.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: gamepad
I voted yes just because you said "probably 13829 no, 60 yes."

hehe i figured atot would have more fatties who, logically, wouldn't want to be taxed for the way they are... that combined with all the righties in here is why i said there'd be more nays than yeas.

you have over 9000 posts and don't know that ATOT is the fat bashing capital of the interweb?
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: naldo
If telling someone they will die if they keep eating the way they do doesn't stop them. I don't think a tax will either.

Plus I'm sure the tax amount of money going to taken care of fat people is far less than going to other unnecessary things the government funds ...

just look at cigarettes
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
we're on our way there, aren't we? i get better health insurance rates because i'm not overweight.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,082
10,883
136
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Make healthy food cheaper, and more people will buy it. As long as that "organically grown" crap costs twice as much as normal food, most folks are never going to buy it.

healthy food is more expensive to make than cheap food (which is pretty much almost always crappy for you). so, you'd be screwing over the farmers and growers.

i disagree. i eat healthily and spend a maximum of $50 for two weeks worth of food. it's just a matter of being lazy or not. sure, it'd be easier for me to order out.. but why should i when i have good food sitting in my fridge that i dont feel like preparing?
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Make healthy food cheaper, and more people will buy it. As long as that "organically grown" crap costs twice as much as normal food, most folks are never going to buy it.

healthy food is more expensive to make than cheap food (which is pretty much almost always crappy for you). so, you'd be screwing over the farmers and growers.

i disagree. i eat healthily and spend a maximum of $50 for two weeks worth of food. it's just a matter of being lazy or not. sure, it'd be easier for me to order out.. but why should i when i have good food sitting in my fridge that i dont feel like preparing?

are you kidding? you think it's less expensive to buy fresh fruit, veggies, meat, etc. than it is to buy macaroni and cheese, ramen noodles, potato chips, jumbo buckets of ice cream, big bags of sugary cereal, packets of kool-aid, etc?

no wonder diabetes/obesity is a problem... all these parents with jobs that provide no time or money to make healthy meals and/or set good examples for their kids on how to eat, among many other things.
 

Feldenak

Lifer
Jan 31, 2003
14,090
2
81
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Make healthy food cheaper, and more people will buy it. As long as that "organically grown" crap costs twice as much as normal food, most folks are never going to buy it.

healthy food is more expensive to make than cheap food (which is pretty much almost always crappy for you). so, you'd be screwing over the farmers and growers.

i disagree. i eat healthily and spend a maximum of $50 for two weeks worth of food. it's just a matter of being lazy or not. sure, it'd be easier for me to order out.. but why should i when i have good food sitting in my fridge that i dont feel like preparing?

are you kidding? you think it's less expensive to buy fresh fruit, veggies, meat, etc. than it is to buy macaroni and cheese, ramen noodles, potato chips, jumbo buckets of ice cream, big bags of sugary cereal, packets of kool-aid, etc?

no wonder diabetes/obesity is a problem... all these parents with jobs that provide no time or money to make healthy meals and/or set good examples for their kids on how to eat, among many other things.

Keep your grubby little hands off my Kool-Aid (with Splenda). :)

Actually, my wife and I manage to eat a rather well balanced diet without breaking the bank.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Originally posted by: Feldenak
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Make healthy food cheaper, and more people will buy it. As long as that "organically grown" crap costs twice as much as normal food, most folks are never going to buy it.

healthy food is more expensive to make than cheap food (which is pretty much almost always crappy for you). so, you'd be screwing over the farmers and growers.

i disagree. i eat healthily and spend a maximum of $50 for two weeks worth of food. it's just a matter of being lazy or not. sure, it'd be easier for me to order out.. but why should i when i have good food sitting in my fridge that i dont feel like preparing?

are you kidding? you think it's less expensive to buy fresh fruit, veggies, meat, etc. than it is to buy macaroni and cheese, ramen noodles, potato chips, jumbo buckets of ice cream, big bags of sugary cereal, packets of kool-aid, etc?

no wonder diabetes/obesity is a problem... all these parents with jobs that provide no time or money to make healthy meals and/or set good examples for their kids on how to eat, among many other things.

Keep your grubby little hands off my Kool-Aid (with Splenda). :)

Actually, my wife and I manage to eat a rather well balanced diet without breaking the bank.

that doesn't mean that it's cheaper than unhealthy food.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Make healthy food cheaper, and more people will buy it. As long as that "organically grown" crap costs twice as much as normal food, most folks are never going to buy it.

healthy food is more expensive to make than cheap food (which is pretty much almost always crappy for you). so, you'd be screwing over the farmers and growers.

i disagree. i eat healthily and spend a maximum of $50 for two weeks worth of food. it's just a matter of being lazy or not. sure, it'd be easier for me to order out.. but why should i when i have good food sitting in my fridge that i dont feel like preparing?

are you kidding? you think it's less expensive to buy fresh fruit, veggies, meat, etc. than it is to buy macaroni and cheese, ramen noodles, potato chips, jumbo buckets of ice cream, big bags of sugary cereal, packets of kool-aid, etc?

no wonder diabetes/obesity is a problem... all these parents with jobs that provide no time or money to make healthy meals and/or set good examples for their kids on how to eat, among many other things.

Ah the ignorance of youth.

Most of my generation grew up on those things, more than a decade before the obesity epidemic. Sugary cereal comes from the 50s and 60s. Kool-aid (1927), mac and cheese (1937). Chips from earlier (invented in the mid 1800s and became mainstream by the 1920s). The obesity epidemic didn't start until the mid-late 80s and really got it's legs in the mid 90s.

And the way our mothers cooked would make present day McDonald's look like health food.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,338
1,215
126
Originally posted by: D1gger
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: D1gger
I am firmly of the opinion that the user should pay. In this case, there should be a tax on all fast food, or alternatively, put a surcharge on medical services that are deemed to be necessary due to the patient being obese.

yes, but how would the govt effectively regulate that? it just seems like there'd be so many problems with that. overeating isn't something that could easily be taxed... plus, should the govt even be involved in knowing that you're overeating??

the medical surcharge isn't going to stop them from overeating or unhealthy eating... if they're in the hospital for something that was caused by their eating habits, what if they can't pay because of it? too bad, buddy? your fault you got that way? have fun dying?

Just slap a tax on all foods that are unhealthy based on a measured criteria (% of calories from fat comes to mind). Then it doesn't matter who is eating it, but the revenue generated goes towards health care. Healthy people are bound to eat less and therefore bear less of the tax burden. Overeaters buy more of this crap and therefore pay more tax.

As far as the medical surcharge, there would have to be a judgement by the medical practitioner that the condition was largely a result of obesity, and then they would apply the surcharge. If the patient is unable to pay due to financial hardship, then the costs would come out of the fat tax fund. If they can afford to pay, they foot the bill.


Look at the % of calories from fat that come from any sort of oil. I guess olive oil is unhealthy because it has a high % of calories from fat.

A normal diet should have ~30% of calories from "good" fats.
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Make healthy food cheaper, and more people will buy it. As long as that "organically grown" crap costs twice as much as normal food, most folks are never going to buy it.

healthy food is more expensive to make than cheap food (which is pretty much almost always crappy for you). so, you'd be screwing over the farmers and growers.

i disagree. i eat healthily and spend a maximum of $50 for two weeks worth of food. it's just a matter of being lazy or not. sure, it'd be easier for me to order out.. but why should i when i have good food sitting in my fridge that i dont feel like preparing?

are you kidding? you think it's less expensive to buy fresh fruit, veggies, meat, etc. than it is to buy macaroni and cheese, ramen noodles, potato chips, jumbo buckets of ice cream, big bags of sugary cereal, packets of kool-aid, etc?

no wonder diabetes/obesity is a problem... all these parents with jobs that provide no time or money to make healthy meals and/or set good examples for their kids on how to eat, among many other things.

Ah the ignorance of youth.

Most of my generation grew up on those things, more than a decade before the obesity epidemic. Surgary cereal comes from the 50s and 60s. Kool-aid, mac and cheese from the 60s as well. Chips from earlier. The obesity epidemic didn't start unil the mid-late 80s and really got it's legs in the mid 90s.

And the way our mothers cooked would make present day McDonald's look like health food.

ah, the ignorance of amused.

back then, they didn't use high fructose corn syrup in virtually everything, if at all. there weren't as many trans-fats, additives, preservatives, and artificial products in foods, either. the production of food has changed a LOT since the atomic age when you were still a little nonsense-spewing tyke in a cowboy costume ready to kill whatever wasn't like you with your pellet rifle.

also, portion sizes have changed drastically since dinosaurs roamed the earth. when you were a kid, you probably had proper portion sizes. now, kids eat so much because they're taught that if it's a lot of food for a little bit of money, you should eat it. some places even put certain chemicals in their food to quell satiety. when the stomach distends over time due to overeating, your brain makes you want to fill it to capacity again. after a while, your hypothalamus just kinda keeps going with the flow because it thinks that you're packing in the food because you actually need it.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
Originally posted by: eits
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Make healthy food cheaper, and more people will buy it. As long as that "organically grown" crap costs twice as much as normal food, most folks are never going to buy it.

healthy food is more expensive to make than cheap food (which is pretty much almost always crappy for you). so, you'd be screwing over the farmers and growers.

i disagree. i eat healthily and spend a maximum of $50 for two weeks worth of food. it's just a matter of being lazy or not. sure, it'd be easier for me to order out.. but why should i when i have good food sitting in my fridge that i dont feel like preparing?

are you kidding? you think it's less expensive to buy fresh fruit, veggies, meat, etc. than it is to buy macaroni and cheese, ramen noodles, potato chips, jumbo buckets of ice cream, big bags of sugary cereal, packets of kool-aid, etc?

no wonder diabetes/obesity is a problem... all these parents with jobs that provide no time or money to make healthy meals and/or set good examples for their kids on how to eat, among many other things.

Ah the ignorance of youth.

Most of my generation grew up on those things, more than a decade before the obesity epidemic. Surgary cereal comes from the 50s and 60s. Kool-aid, mac and cheese from the 60s as well. Chips from earlier. The obesity epidemic didn't start unil the mid-late 80s and really got it's legs in the mid 90s.

And the way our mothers cooked would make present day McDonald's look like health food.

ah, the ignorance of amused.

back then, they didn't use high fructose corn syrup in virtually everything, if at all. there weren't as many trans-fats, additives, preservatives, and artificial products in foods, either. the production of food has changed a LOT since the atomic age when you were still a little nonsense-spewing tyke in a cowboy costume ready to kill whatever wasn't like you with your pellet rifle.

also, portion sizes have changed drastically since dinosaurs roamed the earth. when you were a kid, you probably had proper portion sizes. now, kids eat so much because they're taught that if it's a lot of food for a little bit of money, you should eat it. some places even put certain chemicals in their food to quell satiety. when the stomach distends over time due to overeating, your brain makes you want to fill it to capacity again. after a while, your hypothalamus just kinda keeps going with the flow because it thinks that you're packing in the food because you actually need it.

My gawd, a little 20 something punk is going to school me on how I grew up? Wow, where did you get the Way-Back machine?

The amount of sugar in breakfast cereals when I grew up was no less than today (more, actually). I know the research into HFCS and I'm sorry, but that wont even begin to account for the massive weight gain.

Portion sizes? My GAWD! You have no idea, do you? My mom and grandma (and everyone else's, for that matter) used to STUFF us. And we were guilted if we didn't finish our massive plates of food. Seconds and thirds were encouraged. That practice started LONG before me, as well.

Cooking in used bacon grease and going through tubs of Crisco in a week was normal. Deep frying was very popular. And the 70s was the age of margarine. We ate more trans fats in the 70s and early 80s when you combine the Crisco with the margarine than any other generation at home. Trans fats were pushed on us by the food police of the time as a healthy alternative to saturated fats. That's the whole reason trans fats exist today and why fast food switched to them in the early 80s.

You can keep trying to make up sh!t as you go along, or you can actually STFU and listen to people who were there.
 

zebano

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2005
4,042
0
0
Originally posted by: everman
You can't just tax food deemed unhealthy, then everyone pays regardless of their health status. Some people can control themselves and only eat junk food occasionally, they should not be required to pay any such "fat tax". I think a better alternative is to charge obese people more for health insurance just like smokers, charge them less once they drop the weight.

Exactly my plan. Like life insurance, health insurance should require that you pass a physical, with rates being moderately adjusted based on your health.
 

funboy6942

Lifer
Nov 13, 2001
15,308
393
126
I have to say this because it got me thinking. My two brothers one older one younger, both ate more then I and didnt gain a pound, I ate much less then them and I gained a sh!tload. All my childhood life, and now adult disabled life I been over weight, till I got into my 20's and started to actually loose the fat and turned it all into muscle, and them all their lives up till now have been skinny and ate what ever, no matter how much, when ever, and I will assume that there has to be a lot of people here bashing the fat people for the fat tax, or what have you, that are just like them.

Well I got news for those people, it will end. Both my brothers can no longer eat what ever they want, infact my older brother who is 38 just had a heart attack 4 months ago. Both are fat now, one being 38 and the other being 30, with huge ass guts who used to make fun of me all the time back when they were skinny, and OH how they hate it when I pick on them from going from skinny tooth pick rails to fatty fat fats, but it was sooooooooooooo cool to do it to me.

Point is for you people who sit there eating gallons of ice cream and finish it off with a large pizza and dont gain a pound and then go bashing the fat people for being fat, it will end, it will catch up to you, and your stuck in the eating habits that will make you be one huge mother fvcker. Be prepared for the same sh!t you be dishing out right now, and do go off on them saying its not right and not your fault.

Once the sh1t hits the fan and you start to gain your gonna have to make a huge lifestyle change and for my younger brother NOTHING is working for him as it didnt for me when I was a child. He is dieting and working out, watching what he eats but just like me when I was growing up it doesnt matter hes gonna be a fat man just like I. Sad part though before I got hurt I was 350lb and almost all muscle, Im also 6'4", now that Im disabled and cant get around I have cut out almost everything but I am getting flabby where the muscle used to be, and gaining poundage, may end up going under the knife. My brothers on the other hand are not injured and are dieting and still gaining fat, I was muscle when I wasnt hurt, I am so going to be having some fun for 15 years of childhood hell. Same will happen to some of you riding the "Lets get fatty" train.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,088
722
126
Originally posted by: LtPage1
Absolutely. How about $1 on every fast food order over $5? You could determine "fast food" restaurants by a statistical threshold of calories/meal of the most popular menu items. I don't see how obesity is any more desirable than tobacco or alcohol, and I'll vote for as much of a sin tax on those as you could dream up.

Originally posted by: MrPickins
We need less government, not more.

Then you're of the opinion that people without health insurance should be kicked out of hospitals? Because either I pay for it when they can't afford their $87,000 hospital bill when they're dying at 46 (like I do now), or they pay for it with a fat tax.
Or you believe that we've no obligation to provide health care for our citizens, and so we shouldn't give it to anyone who can't afford it.

There's really no middle ground, as I see it.

I'll take "No governmental obligation to provide health care" for 1000, Alex. ;)

Seriously, look at Canada's slow as molasses system. Socialism FTL.

No insurance means you still get treated, but you better be expecting a bill in the mail.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,088
722
126
Originally posted by: zebano
Originally posted by: everman
You can't just tax food deemed unhealthy, then everyone pays regardless of their health status. Some people can control themselves and only eat junk food occasionally, they should not be required to pay any such "fat tax". I think a better alternative is to charge obese people more for health insurance just like smokers, charge them less once they drop the weight.

Exactly my plan. Like life insurance, health insurance should require that you pass a physical, with rates being moderately adjusted based on your health.

This is the only acceptable form of "fat tax", IMO.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
17
81
Originally posted by: FoBoT
this thread has so much crap in it, so here's is a picture of a bikini gnome

http://www.pics.bbzzdd.com/beta/users/TheJBW/bikinignome.jpg

:laugh:

I can't believe that came up again!

Also, as people said, there is no reason to put an extra tax on fat people, so long as the gov't doesn't pay for their healthcare. And if you're on medicare then yeah, they can take a fat tax out of your SS benefits...