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POLL: Are unions the downfall of american companies?

M

MikeMike

Lifer
many american companies are loosing money to foreign companies, who do not have to pay for unionized workers, steel industry, car industry, etc.

is this because of unionization or because america is stupid?

MIKE
 
actually, if you looked, there was a difference between the 2, only this one had a poll, the other, i hit post message to fast on so i just double posted (or so you think)

MIKE
 
i dont see how unions are a downfall of america, i joined a union and its the best thing thats ever happened to me
international brotherood of electrical workers #401
 
Originally posted by: rival
i dont see how unions are a downfall of america, i joined a union and its the best thing thats ever happened to me
international brotherood of electrical workers #401
Click to expand...

I'm sure the union was good for you, the employee.
but i believe the poster asked if unions in general make America uncompetive with the rest of the world?

 
unions are a double edged sword.
1st, if not for unions we wouldn't be making the kinds of money we do know. Because of unions, employers had to maintain safety standards and a base pay. But now that the government has stepped in and requlates a minum wage, and orgs like OSHA keep safety in check, unions do nothing but hurt us. By demanding 20% raises a year and Full medical coverage and other stuff that costs the company money, thus driving up the price of the companies goods or services.
 
I'm all for unions as my dad works for one. I sure wish where I worked was a union so we actually had some say against the largest company in the world.
 
I don't like modern day unions even though I've belonged to a couple in my working life. Earlier in their history I think they've done much to help the worker in an environment dominated by management, but now I think they've mostly outlived their usefulness.
 
Well yeah, if you belong to one, it's the greatest thing in the world. But imo, they hurt more than they help. Prices for stuff are higher (union workers get paid more), and quality are lower (harder to weed out the bad workers, because the union protects them). Get a true free market going imo. If they're really worth that much, let the market determine it, not a monopolized force.
 
they were well needed years ago when people were being exploited.

Exploitation doesnt occur with the working man as much as it used to... I know unions have killed tons of sectors especially the airline industry here in Canada.
 
They make the worker lazy. You ever drive down the road and see the sign that says, "Men at work"? I think those just mean that they are AT work, not necessarily doing work. When each person has their own specific job and aren't allowed to do anything but... it's a sure sign we're in trouble
 
Speaking in generalities here... If employers didn't f*ck over empolyee's then there wouldn't be a need for unions. But they do so there is.


Lethal
 
Originally posted by: LethalWolfe
Speaking in generalities here... If employers didn't f*ck over empolyee's then there wouldn't be a need for unions. But they do so there is.


Lethal
Click to expand...

What exactly do employers do to fvck over employees these days that the union counters?
 
As americans we have a right to assemble, and that means the right to form unions. Are they counterproductive and the cause of the downfall of american companies, well yes and no. Yes the unions have been overzealous in the 70's and that caused a downturn of the economy, but at the same time overspending and greed by major corporations did the same thing. I believe that an american given the choice of choosing a union or not is a fair practice. The success of a union in a free market is 100% dependant on market conditions. Unions had a lot of power in the 70's because of a lock on the global market by U.S. companies that didn't really need to compete. No I do not think unions are the downfall of us business currently as you see when the market turns sour they become less powerful and hold less sway. Money talks the only reason companies gave unions concessions is because they remained profitable.
On the other hand I think unions are the downfall of the education system. In situations such as teachers unions and PA state employees unions there is no choice to join or not. An employee must join; thats counterproductive and unamerican i believe.
 
Originally posted by: Moralpanic
Originally posted by: LethalWolfe
Speaking in generalities here... If employers didn't f*ck over empolyee's then there wouldn't be a need for unions. But they do so there is.


Lethal
Click to expand...

What exactly do employers do to fvck over employees these days that the union counters?
Click to expand...

Please don't tell me you think most companies actually look out for, care about, and go the extra mile for their employees. Employees, especially corporate ones, are numbers on a page and if accounting thinks your salary could be spent better on something else you gone w/out anyone blinking an eye.

From my retial experice: I rarely, rarely ever got to take all of my dairly break/lunch time mandated by OSHA because corporate never let us hire enough people to properly cover the shifts (even though people came in almost every day looking for a job). I wouldn't have kept my job very long if I locked the store and left so I could take my lunch break now would I?

Now lets look at union vs non-union freelance production experience I've had.

Union gig: I got 60min for lunch/dinner (15min travel time on each end) and 2 15minute breaks per day (TV standard is a 10hr work day).

Non-union gig: The only thing I knew I would get is a paycheck. Shooting outdoors from 11am until midnight or 1am w/*maybe* a 20minute break around 7pm isn't very fun. Nothing like sprinting to go take a leak 'cause you only have 60seconds to get there and back before the commercial break is up and you are back on the air. The *only* saving grace is that I usually got at paid at least 2x as much on non-union gigs than I did on union gigs.

Can, and have, many unions gone too far? Yes. But saying we should get rid of them entirely is throwing the baby out w/the bathwater.

Most of the people I've met who say we don't need unions are people who've never had a job where they need a union. All it takes is one job where you get worked to the bone and/or screwed over and you'll be looking for a way (either thru a union or a contract) to make sure that you at least get food, water and a bathroom break at least once during the day.


Lethal
 
Unions are good, but their too corrupt. For instance, Verizon employees are going to stike soon. Basically they want more money and less work...
 
Originally posted by: LethalWolfe
Originally posted by: Moralpanic
Originally posted by: LethalWolfe
Speaking in generalities here... If employers didn't f*ck over empolyee's then there wouldn't be a need for unions. But they do so there is.


Lethal
Click to expand...

What exactly do employers do to fvck over employees these days that the union counters?
Click to expand...

Please don't tell me you think most companies actually look out for, care about, and go the extra mile for their employees. Employees, especially corporate ones, are numbers on a page and if accounting thinks your salary could be spent better on something else you gone w/out anyone blinking an eye.

From my retial experice: I rarely, rarely ever got to take all of my dairly break/lunch time mandated by OSHA because corporate never let us hire enough people to properly cover the shifts (even though people came in almost every day looking for a job). I wouldn't have kept my job very long if I locked the store and left so I could take my lunch break now would I?

Now lets look at union vs non-union freelance production experience I've had.

Union gig: I got 60min for lunch/dinner (15min travel time on each end) and 2 15minute breaks per day (TV standard is a 10hr work day).

Non-union gig: The only thing I knew I would get is a paycheck. Shooting outdoors from 11am until midnight or 1am w/*maybe* a 20minute break around 7pm isn't very fun. Nothing like sprinting to go take a leak 'cause you only have 60seconds to get there and back before the commercial break is up and you are back on the air. The *only* saving grace is that I usually got at paid at least 2x as much on non-union gigs than I did on union gigs.

Can, and have, many unions gone too far? Yes. But saying we should get rid of them entirely is throwing the baby out w/the bathwater.

Most of the people I've met who say we don't need unions are people who've never had a job where they need a union. All it takes is one job where you get worked to the bone and/or screwed over and you'll be looking for a way (either thru a union or a contract) to make sure that you at least get food, water and a bathroom break at least once during the day.


Lethal
Click to expand...

Actually my father shaped my early opinion of unions and everything I've seen agrees with him. For the record, my father was a unionized steel mill worker. He is now working in a non-union shop where the vote to unionize has failed for 10 years running.
 
American companies are inefficient in terms of production of vehicles. Take an operations management course and it'll be obvious. In other aspects, America is not always the best location for production - cheap labor elsewhere, lower production costs, etc etc. Comparative and absolute advantage kind of explain it.

Part of the American way is built on greed and the desire for money and prestige, so regardless of economics or business, there'll always be inefficiences in U.S. companies. You can't pinpoint it on any one thing, including unions. Every little part contributes
 
Originally posted by: Feldenak
Originally posted by: LethalWolfe
Originally posted by: Moralpanic
Originally posted by: LethalWolfe
Speaking in generalities here... If employers didn't f*ck over empolyee's then there wouldn't be a need for unions. But they do so there is.


Lethal
Click to expand...

What exactly do employers do to fvck over employees these days that the union counters?
Click to expand...

Please don't tell me you think most companies actually look out for, care about, and go the extra mile for their employees. Employees, especially corporate ones, are numbers on a page and if accounting thinks your salary could be spent better on something else you gone w/out anyone blinking an eye.

From my retial experice: I rarely, rarely ever got to take all of my dairly break/lunch time mandated by OSHA because corporate never let us hire enough people to properly cover the shifts (even though people came in almost every day looking for a job). I wouldn't have kept my job very long if I locked the store and left so I could take my lunch break now would I?

Now lets look at union vs non-union freelance production experience I've had.

Union gig: I got 60min for lunch/dinner (15min travel time on each end) and 2 15minute breaks per day (TV standard is a 10hr work day).

Non-union gig: The only thing I knew I would get is a paycheck. Shooting outdoors from 11am until midnight or 1am w/*maybe* a 20minute break around 7pm isn't very fun. Nothing like sprinting to go take a leak 'cause you only have 60seconds to get there and back before the commercial break is up and you are back on the air. The *only* saving grace is that I usually got at paid at least 2x as much on non-union gigs than I did on union gigs.

Can, and have, many unions gone too far? Yes. But saying we should get rid of them entirely is throwing the baby out w/the bathwater.

Most of the people I've met who say we don't need unions are people who've never had a job where they need a union. All it takes is one job where you get worked to the bone and/or screwed over and you'll be looking for a way (either thru a union or a contract) to make sure that you at least get food, water and a bathroom break at least once during the day.


Lethal
Click to expand...

Actually my father shaped my early opinion of unions and everything I've seen agrees with him. For the record, my father was a unionized steel mill worker. He is now working in a non-union shop where the vote to unionize has failed for 10 years running.
Click to expand...

Good, I'm glad your father is working someplace that keeps its workers happy. If all companies were like that we wouldn't need unions.


Lethal

 
I voted for the "blah" option, since the others were far too extreme. Unions are both necessary and evil. Without them, workers rights would be trampled. When they are too powerful, companies can't compete, but that doesn't mean they should be eliminated. How would you like to work a 100 hour work week again? How about not having health care or dental insurance? That would really suck...
 
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