Poll: 78% of GOP Fox News Viewers Say Trump Is Best President Ever

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ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,999
1,520
136
Unbelievable but true how the base eats up this bullshit. I dont really believe they havent heard what is going on, but just tune it out.

As for the Mueller report, I keep coming back to this, but in this time of blatant misrepresentation by Fox News, et al. he should have stated a definite conclusion. Even Bill Maher said as much. The conclusion Mueller came up with was like being at a wedding, and when the minister ask if you will take the bride for your wife, saying "Well, I don't not take her".
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,425
136
Unbelievable but true how the base eats up this bullshit. I dont really believe they havent heard what is going on, but just tune it out.

As for the Mueller report, I keep coming back to this, but in this time of blatant misrepresentation by Fox News, et al. he should have stated a definite conclusion. Even Bill Maher said as much. The conclusion Mueller came up with was like being at a wedding, and when the minister ask if you will take the bride for your wife, saying "Well, I don't not take her".

Yeah apparently his sense of duty to his job overrode his sense of duty to the country.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
30,086
146
Propaganda works, yet those same people would deny/doubt Russia using Facebook ads/memes that reached over 100 million people could change the minds of roughly 80,000 of them.

It's an interesting observation of true facts, to say the least.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Yeah apparently his sense of duty to his job overrode his sense of duty to the country.

He's a Marine. He accepts the chain of command, institutional norms & organizational discipline. His duty is carried out by doing his best job. There's a certain integrity & humility in that.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,425
136
He's a Marine. He accepts the chain of command, institutional norms & organizational discipline. His duty is carried out by doing his best job. There's a certain integrity & humility in that.

Yeah I get that and I don't fault him for that. Some people can see the bigger picture and understand the moment is bigger than them, while others don't. Its like how a total stranger steps into action to help someone while others stand around in awe/shock of what they are seeing. We don't say those that stood around were assholes or self centered, in fact we usually don't say anything about them because their behavior is ordinary. Mueller, like comey, are simply ordinary people who, if they were made of something special, would have seized the moment and sprung into action.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
8,700
136
Art Linkletter's daughter did the darndest thing... took LSD and jumped out a window to her death, IIRC. I never thought of this before but just maybe it had something to do with Daddy.
 
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jameny5

Senior member
Aug 7, 2018
300
77
101
THEY PROBABLY SAID THE SAME THING ABOUT HITLER! HIS BROTHER IS OCCUPYING THE OVAL OFFICE NOW!
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,999
1,520
136
Yeah I get that and I don't fault him for that. Some people can see the bigger picture and understand the moment is bigger than them, while others don't. Its like how a total stranger steps into action to help someone while others stand around in awe/shock of what they are seeing. We don't say those that stood around were assholes or self centered, in fact we usually don't say anything about them because their behavior is ordinary. Mueller, like comey, are simply ordinary people who, if they were made of something special, would have seized the moment and sprung into action.
Basically I agree, although I would not really call someone with Mueller's experience "ordinary". But yes, these are perilous times, and demand extraordinary courage from those who have the power to make a difference. Unfortunately, Mueller did not show it.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
Great effort should be devoted to shutting the Fox propaganda machine down. It creates the same kind of mental illness that causes people to self mutilate.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Yeah I get that and I don't fault him for that. Some people can see the bigger picture and understand the moment is bigger than them, while others don't. Its like how a total stranger steps into action to help someone while others stand around in awe/shock of what they are seeing. We don't say those that stood around were assholes or self centered, in fact we usually don't say anything about them because their behavior is ordinary. Mueller, like comey, are simply ordinary people who, if they were made of something special, would have seized the moment and sprung into action.
Basically I agree, although I would not really call someone with Mueller's experience "ordinary". But yes, these are perilous times, and demand extraordinary courage from those who have the power to make a difference. Unfortunately, Mueller did not show it.

That sort of bullshit is precisely what Barr has set out to promote. You're blaming Mueller for Barr's machinations & malfeasance.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
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You mean if he cut down his father's cherry tree it would be to sell the wood?
Interesting thought. Actually, Donald used his father's money to get into high priced real estate in Manhattan. His father was against it but Donald said "I have to do this." In a essence, he did chop down his father's cherry tree to sell the wood.

Donald is into making a big splash and seeing the results. In Art of the Deal he talks about the first time he saw his name in the newspaper. He must have pissed his pants, he was so excited. It's a key to his personality. He told his children, "dream big. You're going to dream anyway, you may as well dream big." Kaboom!
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,635
50,863
136
That sort of bullshit is precisely what Barr has set out to promote. You're blaming Mueller for Barr's machinations & malfeasance.

No, they are blaming Mueller for not saying whether or not Trump committed a crime, which is perfectly fine. Mueller made a choice not to say that because of DOJ policy, but that's in retrospect a huge mistake based on a ludicrous constitutional theory. If you think through the logic it makes zero sense; Mueller says that he can't say whether or not the president committed a crime because he wouldn't be able to defend himself in court. The entire reason why he wouldn't be able to defend himself in court is because the president is claiming he can't be indicted!

If Trump wanted to defend himself he could simply rescind the DOJ opinion that he can't be indicted and then would be free to clear his name in a judicial proceeding. If he elects not to do that then he should face the consequences of that decision. After all, the legal logic that the president can't be indicted is absolutely insane.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
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No, they are blaming Mueller for not saying whether or not Trump committed a crime, which is perfectly fine. Mueller made a choice not to say that because of DOJ policy, but that's in retrospect a huge mistake based on a ludicrous constitutional theory. If you think through the logic it makes zero sense; Mueller says that he can't say whether or not the president committed a crime because he wouldn't be able to defend himself in court. The entire reason why he wouldn't be able to defend himself in court is because the president is claiming he can't be indicted!

If Trump wanted to defend himself he could simply rescind the DOJ opinion that he can't be indicted and then would be free to clear his name in a judicial proceeding. If he elects not to do that then he should face the consequences of that decision. After all, the legal logic that the president can't be indicted is absolutely insane.
My opinion is that Mueller believed the DOJ should be kept from a decision that could be called political, as if such neutrality was more important than truth. He created a mess as a result.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
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If Trump wanted to defend himself he could simply rescind the DOJ opinion that he can't be indicted and then would be free to clear his name in a judicial proceeding. If he elects not to do that then he should face the consequences of that decision. After all, the legal logic that the president can't be indicted is absolutely insane.
Trump's position (he keeps saying it) is that he's completely blameless, that allegations against him are completely specious. His pretense is that there's nothing there. Of course, he's pleased as punch if he can avoid setting foot in a judicial setting. He has no desire to "clear his name," which he tries to market as solid gold.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,757
2,533
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Doesn't surprise me at all. Much of the damage Trump is doing- permanent wealth concentration, gutting of health care, political skewing of the judicial system is long range and has little immediate impact. What negative impact there is is overwhelmed by Trump's relentless rhetoric and lying. For example, his tariff (and border) policies are injuring farmers but those people are buying this as a temporary pain which will be counterbalanced by the end results. They disregard Trump has NO plan to speak of.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,007
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Yeah I get that and I don't fault him for that. Some people can see the bigger picture and understand the moment is bigger than them, while others don't. Its like how a total stranger steps into action to help someone while others stand around in awe/shock of what they are seeing. We don't say those that stood around were assholes or self centered, in fact we usually don't say anything about them because their behavior is ordinary. Mueller, like comey, are simply ordinary people who, if they were made of something special, would have seized the moment and sprung into action.

Understand that he'd be sacrificing his life, and the lives of his family, if he stood out on point and raised a flag of defiance.

That's what I read in Mueller's statements. He was looking out for himself, to not rock any boats and not paint any targets on his back.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
My opinion is that Mueller believed the DOJ should be kept from a decision that could be called political, as if such neutrality was more important than truth. He created a mess as a result.

Oh, please. Mueller laid out the truth right under our noses-

05-30-2019-mcfadden-915px.png
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
Interesting thought. Actually, Donald used his father's money to get into high priced real estate in Manhattan. His father was against it but Donald said "I have to do this." In a essence, he did chop down his father's cherry tree to sell the wood.

I had that in mind too......
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Oh, please. Mueller laid out the truth right under our noses-

05-30-2019-mcfadden-915px.png
Mueller knows full well that impeachment wouldn't result in a conviction in the Senate, he needed to tell the People straight out that Trump committed a crime and only a DoJ memo/opinion stopped him.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
15,425
136
That sort of bullshit is precisely what Barr has set out to promote. You're blaming Mueller for Barr's machinations & malfeasance.

Not at all. I thought I explained myself pretty clearly and I was very specific in not assigning Mueller any blame.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
I had that in mind too......
I think fskimo is correct that that Mueller made a huge mistake. Unlike some Christians and liberal thinkers in general, My personal philosophy runs along the lines that when a person shows bad faith, duplicitous character, takes advantage of every kindness offered them, and shows no sign of remorse, you alter the way you deal with them. I believe that the answer to goodness spit on is wrath and the ending of that threat without compromise. There is truth and then there is the manner in which it is delivered. Mueller faced a metasticizing cancer and failed to act directly. He sacrificed moral responsibility for a personal sense of duty. He made a save instead of a courageous moral decision, a bad decision, in my opinion. And the fact he doesn't want to testify makes it even worse, in my opinion.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,548
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Understand that he'd be sacrificing his life, and the lives of his family, if he stood out on point and raised a flag of defiance.

That's what I read in Mueller's statements. He was looking out for himself, to not rock any boats and not paint any targets on his back.

I think he was trying to maintain the integrity of the institution he works in. The problem with that is that the institution is being torn down by the president himself.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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Not at all. I thought I explained myself pretty clearly and I was very specific in not assigning Mueller any blame.

You basically offered that Mueller & Comey weren't up to the challenges of current events. It's a form of innuendo. I have no idea why you even included Comey.