Poll: '07 Camry or '07 Camry Hybrid?

[FreshPrince]

I'm finding it hard to justify paying $7K for a fuel saving hybrid car when I will only save approx. $400/yr on gas. I will most likely switch cars before I save over $7K total on gas...

The hybrid is a sweet ride though...

 

[her209]

Do you get tax incentives?

 

[MBentz]

This poll sucks, only toy cars are included.

 

[FreshPrince]

Originally posted by: her209
Do you get tax incentives?

didn't know about the tax incentives, but having searched google, I see that an '07 camry hybrid is qualified for a $2600 tax credit

interesting...is that based on a per year basis or just the year you purchased the vehicle?

Toyota Jan. 1 ? Sep. 30, 2006 Oct. 1, 2006 ? Mar. 31, 2007 Apr. 1 ? Sep. 30, 2007
2005-06 Prius $3,150 $1,575 $788
2006 Highlander Hybrid (2WD & 4WD) $2,600 $1,300 $650
2006 Lexus RX400h (2WD & 4WD) $2,200 $1,100 $550
2007 Camry Hybrid $2,600 $1,300 $650
2007 Lexus GS 450h $1,550 $775 $388

 

[PowerEngineer]

Well, it may be $7k over a Camry CE but the Hybrid is decked out with a lot of optional equipment (e.g. the JBL sound system, upgraded wheels, keyless access, climate control) that would cost you a few thousand to add on if you wanted them. Plus there is the $2600 federal tax credit -- if you purchase by the end of September.

I rationalized the difference down to about $2k between a hybrid and a nicely equipped LE. When the dealership surprised me by having an unsold one coming off the boat a few weeks ago (hybrids will soon be built in Kentucky too), I bought it. (You will pay much closer to MSRP than with other Camry models.)

The hybrid really does drive like a normal car, although sometimes a little slow off the line. It's surprising how often the engine turns itself on and off while driving in city traffic, and you quickly get sucked into the "game" of driving for fuel economy. I'm always doing what I can to get/stay in "golf cart mode" (i.e. electric motor only). I'm close to 500 miles now and still have about another 100 miles before the tank is empty; I'll soon know if the estimated 36+ mph is close to correct.

:thumbsup:

 

[morkman100]

What models are you comparing to get a $7000 difference?

Sticker price on a Camry Hybrid (fully loaded, with navigation, leather, and moonroof) runs about $30,500 while the V6 XLE runs about $30250 (with navigation, leather etc). Since the base model Camry Hybrid includes a lot of stuff (push button start, and other stuff I forget), you can't really compare it to a base model LE.

Plus, at $3.00+ a gallon, you'll be saving about $500 a year (driving 15K miles a year). My wife's job requires a lot of driving and she's saving about 10-15 MPG compared to her 2000 BMW 328i.

And yes, the Hybrid is a great car. Suprisingly fast and very comfortable ride.

 

[morkman100]

Originally posted by: PowerEngineer

Well, it may be $7k over a Camry CE but the Hybrid is decked out with a lot of optional equipment (e.g. the JBL sound system, upgraded wheels, keyless access, climate control) that would cost you a few thousand to add on if you wanted them. Plus there is the $2600 federal tax credit -- if you purchase by the end of September.

I rationalized the difference down to about $2k between a hybrid and a nicely equipped LE. When the dealership surprised me by having an unsold one coming off the boat a few weeks ago (hybrids will soon be built in Kentucky too), I bought it. (You will pay much closer to MSRP than with other Camry models.)

The hybrid really does drive like a normal car, although sometimes a little slow off the line. It's surprising how often the engine turns itself on and off while driving in city traffic, and you quickly get sucked into the "game" of driving for fuel economy. I'm always doing what I can to get/stay in "golf cart mode" (i.e. electric motor only). I'm close to 500 miles now and still have about another 100 miles before the tank is empty; I'll soon know if the estimated 36+ mph is close to correct.

:thumbsup:

I like how they made the Eco Drive monitor like a game. My wife is always trying to get an Excellent score. I find mysef trying to keep the MPG gauge above the 40MPG mark (and nothing beats driving 85 on the freeway with the MPG gauge at 60MPG!).

As for the speed, I found it to be suprising fast and smooth (compared to other camrys and sedans).

 

[Baked]

The $2600 credit is given to soften the blow you get from the dealer when it smacks you w/ a $3500 over MSPR markup.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: PowerEngineer

Well, it may be $7k over a Camry CE but the Hybrid is decked out with a lot of optional equipment (e.g. the JBL sound system, upgraded wheels, keyless access, climate control) that would cost you a few thousand to add on if you wanted them. Plus there is the $2600 federal tax credit -- if you purchase by the end of September.

I rationalized the difference down to about $2k between a hybrid and a nicely equipped LE. When the dealership surprised me by having an unsold one coming off the boat a few weeks ago (hybrids will soon be built in Kentucky too), I bought it. (You will pay much closer to MSRP than with other Camry models.)

The hybrid really does drive like a normal car, although sometimes a little slow off the line. It's surprising how often the engine turns itself on and off while driving in city traffic, and you quickly get sucked into the "game" of driving for fuel economy. I'm always doing what I can to get/stay in "golf cart mode" (i.e. electric motor only). I'm close to 500 miles now and still have about another 100 miles before the tank is empty; I'll soon know if the estimated 36+ mph is close to correct.

:thumbsup:

sorry, but anytime the car is running on the electric motor "only," you're not only burning gas in the long-run (to charge the battery), but you're also burning extra gas to make up for the multiple energy conversions, extra heat losses, battery ineffeciences, etc. that "99 MPG" display is a lie, because it doesn't take that into account. there's a reason Honda's hybrids have competitive mileage using smaller hybrid systems that generally don't run "electric-only." as Car and Driver wisely pointed out when they drove the first-gen Civic hybrid, you get the BEST mileage when you DON'T dip into the electric reserves at all. but toyota know they can impress you a lot more by tricking you into thinking the hybrid system is "helping" than by actually improving your gas mileage.

 

[morkman100]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: PowerEngineer

Well, it may be $7k over a Camry CE but the Hybrid is decked out with a lot of optional equipment (e.g. the JBL sound system, upgraded wheels, keyless access, climate control) that would cost you a few thousand to add on if you wanted them. Plus there is the $2600 federal tax credit -- if you purchase by the end of September.

I rationalized the difference down to about $2k between a hybrid and a nicely equipped LE. When the dealership surprised me by having an unsold one coming off the boat a few weeks ago (hybrids will soon be built in Kentucky too), I bought it. (You will pay much closer to MSRP than with other Camry models.)

The hybrid really does drive like a normal car, although sometimes a little slow off the line. It's surprising how often the engine turns itself on and off while driving in city traffic, and you quickly get sucked into the "game" of driving for fuel economy. I'm always doing what I can to get/stay in "golf cart mode" (i.e. electric motor only). I'm close to 500 miles now and still have about another 100 miles before the tank is empty; I'll soon know if the estimated 36+ mph is close to correct.

:thumbsup:

sorry, but anytime the car is running on the electric motor "only," you're not only burning gas in the long-run (to charge the battery), but you're also burning extra gas to make up for the multiple energy conversions, extra heat losses, battery ineffeciences, etc. that "99 MPG" display is a lie, because it doesn't take that into account. there's a reason Honda's hybrids have competitive mileage using smaller hybrid systems that generally don't run "electric-only." as Car and Driver wisely pointed out when they drove the first-gen Civic hybrid, you get the BEST mileage when you DON'T dip into the electric reserves at all. but toyota know they can impress you a lot more by tricking you into thinking the hybrid system is "helping" than by actually improving your gas mileage.

You seem to be missing some info about hybrid technology.

The Camry Hyrbrid (as well as the Prius) runs in 3 modes: all gas, gas/electric, and all electric. The display in the car shows when the gas or electric motors are providing power to the wheels (and in the case of the hybrid system, when braking/coasting/gas engine is charging the batteries). I would guess a majority of the power to the batteries is coming from the braking/coasting. Only when you are idling (not moving at all) for a while (15min+) does the gas engine start to charge the batteries. When you are in electric only mode (sub 30mph speeds), the gas engine shuts off (the gas engine will stop and start automatically). When you are idling/low speeds, the gas engine is off (sounds like a golf cart), and the engine only restarts when more acceleration power is needed, or if the batteries run down to a certain level.

I think you'll need to post some proof of your statements. Lots of Prius drivers get 50+ MPG. This is not in their imaginations.

toyota know they can impress you a lot more by tricking you into thinking the hybrid system is "helping" than by actually improving your gas mileage.

Seems like you have a problem with people who want a car that gets better gas mileage and is a bit better for the environment... like they (we, since I own a Camry Hybrid) are too dumb to see past marketing and not notice that our gas mileage savings are as promised (as much as any cars "MPG" rates are accurate I guess though).

 

[bonkers325]

the hybrid is a gimmick. it makes you feel better on the inside knowing you're cutting end-user fuel consumption and lowering emissions. but if you look at the lifetime resource consumption of a hybrid vehicle (from start to finish) the fuel savings the buyer gets is offset by the amount of resources required to build, transport, and dispose of the hybrid components. all in all, not much fuel saving.

oh, and this is from someone who at first loved hybrids. if you really want to help cut back fuel consumption, start riding bikes and take public transportation to work. if you have to drive to work, buy an economy car with comparable MPG.

... but if you're going to buy a camry anyway, get the hybrid

 

[bunnyfubbles]

if you enjoy the smell of your own farts, get the Hybrid!!

 

[redgtxdi]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
if you enjoy the smell of your own farts, get the Hybrid!!

Ooooh.......Hybrid for me then!



Actually, the only reason I *wouldn't* buy the hybrid is due to the first year. First year version of the overall car is an obstacle I think Toyota can overcome. However, including the new hybrid system would make it tougher. I'd probably wait 'til 2nd year, but that's just me.


The price bothers me a little but only because I wouldn't buy the V-6. I'd buy an I-4 and spend something closer to $20K.

 

[FoBoT]

hybrids are only for rich greenies to make them feel good

 

[desy]

I'm not sold on hybrids just yet.
I'd rather deisels and bio diesel to fuel them down the road ,and maybe hybrid deisels.

I do think tho that its important research that will lead to better batteries, energy recovery systems, etc thats important but I wouldn't want one myself. . .

 

[morkman100]

if you really want to help cut back fuel consumption, start riding bikes and take public transportation to work.

Not a practical solution in some cities (like LA). I tried to take the MTA Red Line here (basically a dedicated street/freeway for buses only) when my wife borrowed my car. Usual commute time of 20-25 minutes became 90 minutes (for about a 10 mile trip). Not worth it.

if you have to drive to work, buy an economy car with comparable MPG.

Not every guy wants to cram himself into a Yaris or Fit... especially if he has a family. What's wrong with a nice size sedan that gets good MPG and doesn't look like a car from Fast and the Furious.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Neither?

 

[sniperruff]

i'd probably buy an altima 3.5SE if it has to be new, or a used 2003 maxima SE.

 

[morkman100]

Originally posted by: desy
I'm not sold on hybrids just yet.
I'd rather deisels and bio diesel to fuel them down the road ,and maybe hybrid deisels.

I do think tho that its important research that will lead to better batteries, energy recovery systems, etc thats important but I wouldn't want one myself. . .

I've read that that technology (diesel hybrids) is going to make a big splash in higher MPG cars.

There is also research in pressure-based hybrids by GM I think. Basically, a large pressured-filled tank replaces the battery of an electric hybrid. The gas engine is not connected directly to the wheels at all (which makes the hybrid system simpler, smaller and cheaper). The engine just pressurizes the tank and this pressure is delivered to the wheels for power (and pressure can be returned to the tank during braking). Interesting stuff.

 

[morkman100]

Study: Hybrid cars will pay for themselves over time

 

[desy]

It says 'with generous tax credits,' I don't think hybrids should get those

 

[FreshPrince]

I have decided to get the regular base model Camry instead...

1.) it's much cheaper
2.) it gets pretty good mileage
3.) like the other guy said, it may take more resources to dispose of the hybrid system, therefore it would be a wash as far as impact to the environment
4.) I really want a fuel cell vehicle, but that won't happen for a long time
5.) my '00/'01 Camry LE V6 is starting to eat money in repair costs

thanks for the response

 

[ailetlvo]

Neither. Toyotas are good cars, but for some reason I just don't like them all that much.

 

[fLum0x]

Originally posted by: FreshPrince
I'm finding it hard to justify paying $7K for a fuel saving hybrid car when I will only save approx. $400/yr on gas. I will most likely switch cars before I save over $7K total on gas...

The hybrid is a sweet ride though...

hybrid

 

[Maximus96]

i think the new camry looks pretty good with the factory ground effects. i sat inside a camry hybrid in the dealer once and the push start was pretty neat. my murano has a keyless start but its not as cool.