Police tasing results in braindeath for suspect

[the DRIZZLE]

So she commits two hit and runs, then purposely slips her handcuffs and tries to escape custody (a felony)..

And why is this an issue?

Because her actions don't give the cops a blank check to do whatever they want. Do you think they could have shot her in the head if they wanted to? I swear people on this forum have no logical reasoning skills.

IMO tasers are way overused by cops as a replacement doing their job.

 

[cybrsage]

You were never 5? I used to run and catch kids from behind from their clothes and captured them while playing. Nobody got hurt.

Children end up in the hospital all the time, having been hurt due to rough housing. This is even though children tend to be more "springy" than adults.

 

[cybrsage]

Because her actions don't give the cops a blank check to do whatever they want. Do you think they could have shot her in the head if they wanted to? I swear people on this forum have no logical reasoning skills.

IMO tasers are way overused by cops as a replacement doing their job.

You are correct, he was not allowed to use deadly force to stop her. He did not use deadly force to stop her.

He did what he was allowed to do.

 

[spidey07]

Wow, epic fail....I guess you are still on meds after Perry dropped out of the race?

To all the right winger pure authoritarian types, you think that once you do anything wrong, cops can do anything to you, think again. There are these things called rules, laws, and policies that police have to obey.

Just like you can't shoot someone in the back for running away, you can't taze anyone just for the hell of it. Just about all dept's have strict policies on when you can use tazers.

So the question is, what are the policies for this event? It's a simple question.

In general, here are examples:





Now reading those, the only thing that might be valid is the second #4 above, but that is still sketchy.

Running away (especially while handcuffed, which would severely limit your speed) doesn't seem to be a valid reason.

Does anyone have this cops dept policies? That is what everyone should be looking at, not their own macho/authoritative fantasies about what cops should be allowed to do.

One more time - APPARENTLY HE CAN USE THE TASER AS THE RULE OF LAW FOUND HE WAS JUSTIFIED IN HIS ACTIONS

 

[Jaskalas]

I don't insult anybody, just pound them with facts and truth.

FACT - the officers actions were deemed justified
FACT - taser is the first compliance tool, next is physical contact (less risk of injury to officer and perp)
FACT - he did his job, he caught her

A deadly weapon as 'the first compliance tool', how lovely. Might as well return to the days of shooting fleeing suspects, you can hit them in the leg right?

 

[airdata]

You are correct, he was not allowed to use deadly force to stop her. He did not use deadly force to stop her.

He did what he was allowed to do.

He killed her, so obviously he used deadly force.

As I've posted multiple times and here once more : There is legal precedent that the officer had to have known his actions could have resulted in serious bodily injury or death.

He's responsible for her death without a doubt.

FACT - taser is the first compliance tool, next is physical contact (less risk of injury to officer and perp)

120lb handcuffed woman... I really doubt the cop was in any sort of physical danger. But I do love to see you idiots show everybody just how dumb you are.

 

[ch33zw1z]

People die from having a tooth removed...but I would not consider having a tooth removed to be deadly force.

Are you implying that you get tazed during a dental procedure? The cop is fat and lazy, tasers just allow fat and lazy cops to be....well, fat and lazy. When this is what police work has come to, it's just sad. And the fact that people actually endorse it is ever more sad.

 

[ch33zw1z]

One more time - APPARENTLY HE CAN USE THE TASER AS THE RULE OF LAW FOUND HE WAS JUSTIFIED IN HIS ACTIONS

Doesn't make it right in my eyes. And there's plenty of people that agree.

 

[JSt0rm]

justified or not lawsuit incoming the tax payers will end up paying more for this reject of a man.

And that cop in the video didnt look to good after he saw what happened to her so no matter what his lawyer tells him to say in public you know he is in a world of mindfuck right now - I wish him a long painful road.

 

[wayliff]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...se-of-taser-on-woman-raises-questions/1215998

Make your own conclusions.

 

[TheVrolok]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser_safety_issues#Analysis

Yet people still seem to die from it....

There are many, many things that people die from that are not considered lethal weapons. A weapon of deadly force is a weapon intended to be lethal. There may be a small percentage of cases where using a taser results in death, but it is so small that it is hardly enough to constitute a categorization of "lethal weapon."

 

[Darwin333]

I've been telling people that he is mentally ill for awhile now. He does seem to be deteriorating recently however. I know that a lot of mental illness gets worse over time, so maybe this is to be expected.

He is becoming the poster child on why the rest of us have to defend our gun rights.

 

[PrinceofWands]

She was running from the cops and got tazed.

Problem?

Next time, dont run from the cops.

The problem is that the use of force is ONLY justified to confront force, or to prevent imminent harm to others. Otherwise the state must only use the least forceful option available...in this case simply pursuing her, going hands on (but not with weapons) if necessary. If she attacks, then you can go chem or MAYBE taser. Not until. Not EVER until.

Now, if they'd shot her during the commission of her 'hit and runs' I would have had no problem with it. Feel free to kill someone posing a clear and present danger to innocents. In this case, after she was already handcuffed and essentially not an active threat, there was no longer need to use a weapon. It's EXACTLY the same as a citizen shooting a fleeing thief in the back. Either everyone in the country is allowed to kill anyone committing a crime, or everyone is ONLY allowed to use a weapon in self-defense. There are no other viable options.

 

[fskimospy]

He is becoming the poster child on why the rest of us have to defend our gun rights.

Haha, we need to arm ourselves to protect our families from encroaching government tyranny!

Oh, and this crazy guy on the internet.

 

[Darwin333]

One more time - APPARENTLY HE CAN USE THE TASER AS THE RULE OF LAW FOUND HE WAS JUSTIFIED IN HIS ACTIONS

No court has found him justified. His own department said that he was justified. Law enforcement is part of the executive and they do not set law nor do they determine if the rule of law was followed. That would be the judicial system.

How much you want to bet her parents get rich off of this? How does that make you feel?

 

[Darwin333]

Haha, we need to arm ourselves to protect our families from encroaching government tyranny!

Oh, and this crazy guy on the internet.

lol, I meant when they try to pass new laws on guns they are going to point to him and say "do we really want batshit crazy bastards like that to have the amount of guns and ammo that he claims to have". Its kind of hard to argue against that.

 

[Craig234]

He is becoming the poster child on why the rest of us have to defend our gun rights.

Because if you were in custody handfuffed and ran and the Sheriff was going to use a taser, you'd pull out your gun.

I'm glad though to see you agreeing that this is a tragic situation. Too many immoral posters.

 

[ch33zw1z]

There are many, many things that people die from that are not considered lethal weapons. A weapon of deadly force is a weapon intended to be lethal. There may be a small percentage of cases where using a taser results in death, but it is so small that it is hardly enough to constitute a categorization of "lethal weapon."

What is the % then?

also, I'd like to see you explain that to the family of people falling victim to this "non-lethal weapon", that just happens to kill people.

 

[TheVrolok]

What is the % then?

also, I'd like to see you explain that to the family of people falling victim to this "non-lethal weapon", that just happens to kill people.

What is the percentage? Burden of proof is on you, sir. I haven't personally done studies on the efficacy of tasers, but seeing as simple logic concludes that tasers are used at least, what, 10, 50, 100 times a day across the country and Amnesty International claims a record of 334 deaths due to tasers (these deaths aren't even largely proven attributable to the device) between 2001 and 2008 that the percentage is incredibly small. One study I found quickly of 1201 cases of taser usage resulted in data stating that 99.75% of cases resulted in no to mild harm. Only 2 cases involved death shortly after the taser usage; however the autopsies in both of those cases state that the taser was not the cause of death. Looks pretty non-lethal (in the vast, vast majority of cases) to me.

I would be happy to explain it to the family. I've explained extremely rare, and tragic, outcomes from common actions before. Here's a quick example. 53 year old guy (mostly healthy but hypertensive, obese) had surgery for a ventral hernia .. procedure went completely by the book. No problems, no complications, no abnormalities. Repair was good, decided to keep him overnight for safety's sake, followed standard protocol, etc. Yet, next day, guy gets up to walk around the halls, takes a few steps, and drops dead. Likely PE. Guy died as a result of an incredibly common and statistically benign surgery. Should we call simple hernia repair surgery a "lethal surgery" or "very risky." Nope. Shit happens, but you need to look at the odds. A taser can be lethal, but it is not intended as a lethal weapon, nor does it result in death in any statistically significant way. It's really that easy.

 

[spidey07]

No court has found him justified. His own department said that he was justified. Law enforcement is part of the executive and they do not set law nor do they determine if the rule of law was followed. That would be the judicial system.

How much you want to bet her parents get rich off of this? How does that make you feel?

That's because no crime was committed and using force was justified.

 

[ch33zw1z]

What is the percentage? Burden of proof is on you, sir. I haven't personally done studies on the efficacy of tasers, but seeing as simple logic concludes that tasers are used at least, what, 10, 50, 100 times a day across the country and Amnesty International claims a record of 334 deaths due to tasers (these deaths aren't even largely proven attributable to the device) between 2001 and 2008 that the percentage is incredibly small. One study I found quickly of 1201 cases of taser usage resulted in data stating that 99.75% of cases resulted in no to mild harm. Only 2 cases involved death shortly after the taser usage; however the autopsies in both of those cases state that the taser was not the cause of death. Looks pretty non-lethal (in the vast, vast majority of cases) to me.

I would be happy to explain it to the family. I've explained extremely rare, and tragic, outcomes from common actions before. Here's a quick example. 53 year old guy (mostly healthy but hypertensive, obese) had surgery for a ventral hernia .. procedure went completely by the book. No problems, no complications, no abnormalities. Repair was good, decided to keep him overnight for safety's sake, followed standard protocol, etc. Yet, next day, guy gets up to walk around the halls, takes a few steps, and drops dead. Likely PE. Guy died as a result of an incredibly common and statistically benign surgery. Should we call simple hernia repair surgery a "lethal surgery" or "very risky." Nope. Shit happens, but you need to look at the odds. A taser can be lethal, but it is not intended as a lethal weapon, nor does it result in death in any statistically significant way. It's really that easy.

You made the claim, you provide the %. It's your burden of proof because you made it so. I would like to see the actual number.

Is happy really the right word here? You take pleasure in conveying tragic outcomes to devastated family members? D:

Hypertensive/obese is far from healthy. The girl in the story is actually healthy, just is the victim of unfortunate circumstance of having a fat, lazy cop who'd rather not follow his protocol (hands cuffs in the front and not cuffed to anything stationary), and then taze her in the back when he's just an arms reach away causing her to fall onto pavement causing severe head trauma.

You're providing a medical procedure where people sign off knowing the risks involved. I don't believe this girl would've ran if she thought there was a chance that she would be dead because of it. Waiver not found.

I don't argue that tazers don't hold a place as a useful tool, but to make up for a police officers disregard and laziness is sickening. And the way people defend it is as well.

Her mother is suing, and I believe she'll win. It's a sad situation, and the coarseness that is shown by some in this thread makes me sad.

 

[TheVrolok]

You made the claim, you provide the %. It's your burden of proof because you made it so. I would like to see the actual number.

You clearly don't understand how this works. Tasers are already considered non-lethal. You are arguing otherwise, against the standard, it is therefore you're job to prove the status quo incorrect.

Is happy really the right word here? You take pleasure in conveying tragic outcomes to devastated family members? D:

It's an expession.

Hypertensive/obese is far from healthy.

Not ideal, but extremely common both in the population and in patients undergoing basic surgeries - which is what my point is.

The girl in the story is actually healthy, just is the victim of unfortunate circumstance of having a fat, lazy cop who'd rather not follow his protocol (hands cuffs in the front and not cuffed to anything stationary), and then taze her in the back when he's just an arms reach away causing her to fall onto pavement causing severe head trauma.

Actually, she had cocaine and oxycodone in her system during the tasing. In addition to that, you don't have her medical records. Does she have any underlying medical conditions? Statistically unlikely due to her age, but we know she was using illegal drugs and/or legal drugs illegally so that calls some question here.

You're providing a medical procedure where people sign off knowing the risks involved. I don't believe this girl would've ran if she thought there was a chance that she would be dead because of it. Waiver not found.

You're missing the point in the analogy. Regardless, who doesn't know that running from the police while under arrest has a very small risk of death? I sure as hell know it, as do many (most?) intelligent people. Do I expect to die when running from the police? Perhaps not, but do I realize it's a remote possibility? Sure. Unfortunately this remote possibility was far less remote in this instance.

Her mother is suing, and I believe she'll win. It's a sad situation, and the coarseness that is shown by some in this thread makes me sad.

She probably will win, or at least get a settlement? Does that mean she is right? Maybe yes, maybe no. Winning a civil suit is not the same as winning a criminal case. There are lawsuits settled every day that are complete bullshit, it's just better (for one reason or another) to settle sometimes.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You clearly don't understand how this works. Tasers are already considered non-lethal. You are arguing otherwise, against the standard, it is therefore you're job to prove the status quo incorrect.

what? Just wanted the number you seemed so sure of.

It's an expession.

poor choice on your part.

Not ideal, but extremely common both in the population and in patients undergoing basic surgeries - which is what my point is.

still gotta sign that waiver

Actually, she had cocaine and oxycodone in her system during the tasing. In addition to that, you don't have her medical records. Does she have any underlying medical conditions? Statistically unlikely due to her age, but we know she was using illegal drugs and/or legal drugs illegally so that calls some question here.

cocaine stays is your system for ~72 hours, opiates can stay for ~4-5 days depending on quantity used. doesn't mean she was high on anything during the ordeal. shit man, weed can stay with you for weeks depending on your size/weight/metabolism....doesn't mean you're getting baked all day every day.

You're missing the point in the analogy. Regardless, who doesn't know that running from the police while under arrest has a very small risk of death? I sure as hell know it, as do many (most?) intelligent people. Do I expect to die when running from the police? Perhaps not, but do I realize it's a remote possibility? Sure. Unfortunately this remote possibility was far less remote in this instance.

You can put the blame on her all you want. You're missing my point, which is she's not completely at fault here. That fat, lazy cop shouldn't be on the force anymore.

She probably will win, or at least get a settlement? Does that mean she is right? Maybe yes, maybe no. Winning a civil suit is not the same as winning a criminal case. There are lawsuits settled every day that are complete bullshit, it's just better (for one reason or another) to settle sometimes.

If she's any kind of mother, it's not even about the money to her. If this was my kid, it would be about fighting to make sure that this fat, lazy cop couldn't do this to someone again. He was negligent. I know the police force reviews found no wrong doing on his part, but the trust between police and public has long since failed. It's not surprising that those were the findings.

 

[spidey07]

You made the claim, you provide the %. It's your burden of proof because you made it so. I would like to see the actual number.

Is happy really the right word here? You take pleasure in conveying tragic outcomes to devastated family members? D:

Hypertensive/obese is far from healthy. The girl in the story is actually healthy, just is the victim of unfortunate circumstance of having a fat, lazy cop who'd rather not follow his protocol (hands cuffs in the front and not cuffed to anything stationary), and then taze her in the back when he's just an arms reach away causing her to fall onto pavement causing severe head trauma.

You're providing a medical procedure where people sign off knowing the risks involved. I don't believe this girl would've ran if she thought there was a chance that she would be dead because of it. Waiver not found.

I don't argue that tazers don't hold a place as a useful tool, but to make up for a police officers disregard and laziness is sickening. And the way people defend it is as well.

Her mother is suing, and I believe she'll win. It's a sad situation, and the coarseness that is shown by some in this thread makes me sad.

Now ive heard everything. You're trying to make the case it was the cops fault and circumstances?

Who created those circumstances? She did. It was her action that caused them and she is se responsible for the consequences of that decision and action.

The blame lies squarely with her decisions and actions. Period. That fact cannot be disputed. If she didn't bolt this would not happen. Her fault.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Now ive heard everything. You're trying to make the case it was the cops fault and circumstances?

Who created those circumstances? She did. It was her action that caused them and she is se responsible for the consequences of that decision and action.

The blame lies squarely with her decisions and actions. Period. That fact cannot be disputed. If she didn't bolt this would not happen. Her fault.

You need to reread there spidey. I never argued she wasn't at fault, I argue that he is ALSO at fault. I was debating with Vrolock because he's actually reasonable. There's a reason I don't quote/interact with your posts.

Why was she cuffed in the front and not cuffed to a stationary object? It can then be argued that he created the situation that led to her feeling like she could get away.