Police Tasers Nude Mentally-Ill Man

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SarcasticDwarf

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2001
9,574
1
76
Originally posted by: thepd7
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: waggy
ugh those pictures are nasty.

presonally i think to many police really on the tazer far to much. this was one instance they shouldnt have used it. he was not in a position to hurt them.

Tasers are now used as a replacement for officers wrestling a person to the ground and handcuffing them. The problem with this is that they should be used as a replacement for firing a gun only. There are a number of medical conditions where a taser can have crippling or lethal effect.


So let's think about these exact circumstances. Would officers have EVER shot the person? Hell no, there was no call for it. So why did they use lethal force?


Sadly, officers are almost never held accountable for their actions.

Wrong. I do not want cops to have to risk their lives, they do it enough. Someone has to get him eventually, why should a cop have to endanger their life (with this guy threatening to "take everyone with him") when they have a tool to subdue him?

Sorry, but risking their lives is part of the job. As a cop you will sustain minor injuries in the normal course of your duties. Again, part of the job. The issue here is that the alternative had a far, far, far less of a chance of death for anyone...and that same alternative has proven effective for the last thousand years. The officers misused their tools.
 

uberman

Golden Member
Sep 15, 2006
1,942
1
81
Originally posted by: Eli
Do you people saying he was making threats not have a brain?

He was naked. He was holding a fluorescent bulb. He was on a ledge. Does the ledge give him a tactical advantage or something? No. It gives him a disadvantage. There was no danger to anybody except himself.

Clearly, he was going to slay everybody! He could have jumped off the ledge and lunged at someone!

Training? You braindead folks keep mentioning training. Isn't this what your training is supposed to do? Do you really feel threatened by a naked mentally ill man with a fluorescent tube?

Why don't you let him jump, and when he breaks his legs, take the tube away from him?

Why don't you let him jump, and when he doesn't break his legs, use this training you speak of to disarm him?

An 8' long stick would be a better weapon than a fluorescent tube! He could have broken it over an officers head and it would have shattered. He would no longer be holding it, and the officer would be lucky to have a single cut.

He could have then lunged at an officer he was lucky enough to still be holding a piece of the tube. Oh noes! I am sure this man has cat like reflexes and agility. Oh wait, that's what your training is supposed to provide you with.

This is disgusting.

Well said!!! QFT! I've always felt tasers should be banned.

I think it's amazing the way city police present tazers to their city councils for authorizations. They say tazers save lives because otherwise the officers would use their guns. Gimme a break!
 

Agentbolt

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2004
3,340
1
0
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
JeffreyLebowski, you seem to think that if someone breaks the law, that provides total justification for the cops to do anything they want to that person, up to and including behaving in a negligent manner that leads to that person's death. You're so hung up on the fact that the guy was an "OFFENDER" or "CRIMINAL" (as you put it) that you aren't thinking straight (not to mention he is neither of those things until he is convicted in court; at the time he died, he was a suspect).

I don't know about other people, but I'm not an apologist by any means. I think it's unfortunate that the cops used poor judgment in this situation. I'm not calling for them to be strung up, but are you able to at least acknowledge that this was not the smartest course of action? Or are you going to keep insisting that the cops should be completely absolved of any blame for the simple reason that they are cops? Remember, they are people to, and they can make mistakes. Argue all you want that their mistake wasn't that large, but don't argue that it wasn't a mistake at all. Anytime someone dies as a result of police actions, unless that death was the only way to protect someone else, it means that at least a small mistake was made.

You're asking the ATOT Cop Apologist Brigade to admit there's even the slightest possibility that one of their precious cops did anything even slightly out of line. You might as well ask an ant to bench press a truck.

I've given up trying to participate in these threads, really. Most of the anti-cop people I've seen here have admitted when the police were completely within their rights to kill/injure suspects, even when the prevailing opinion is that the police stepped out of line. I've NEVER seen any of the retarded cop-loving people here say anything other than "ZOMG!!! A BADGE!!! THAT MAKES A PERSON OMNIPOTENT AND INCAPABLE OF DOING ANYTHING WRONG!!!!" however.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
2
56
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Ha this just proves how fucking stupid you are. This is the real world. You don't catch people falling from that height without posing risk to yourself.

If it was an innocent situation the cops wouldn't have been called. But I guess in your pathetic piss ant world, if you can't catch law breaker without any risk what so ever to the offender you should just let him go.
Go back to your 7th grade lit class.

Way to pick out one of many examples and attempt (and fail) to rip me a new one.

Fuck yourself. :)
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
all that really needs to be said is from the statement from the police department.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09...ion/25taserletter.html

On Wednesday, September 24 at approximately 1:50 PM, members of the NYPD?s Emergency Service Unit responded to the report of an emotionally disturbed person at 489 Tompkins Avenue in Brooklyn. The individual, Inman Morales, fled out the window of his third-floor apartment to the fire escape. After unsuccessfully trying to enter the apartment of a fourth-floor neighbor from the fire escape, Morales fled to the second-floor fire escape, and from there onto the housing of a roll-down security gate, which was 10-feet, five inches from the sidewalk.

As an ESU officer was in the process of securing himself on the second-floor fire escape, Morales jabbed at him with an eight-foot long florescent light. An ESU lieutenant directed another ESU officer on the sidewalk to employ a Conducted Energy Device (CED), commonly known as a Taser, against Morales, who fell to the sidewalk, striking his head. He was removed to Kings County Hospital where he was pronounced dead.

While officers had radioed for an inflatable bag as the incident unfolded, it had not yet arrived at the scene when Morales fell. None of the ESU officers on the scene were positioned to break his fall, nor did they devise a plan in advance to do so.

The order to employ the Taser under these circumstances appears to have violated guidelines, re-issued June 4, 2008, which specifically state that ?when possible, the CED should not be used?in situations where the subject may fall from an elevated surface.?

The lieutenant who directed the use of the Taser has been placed on modified assignment. The officer has been assigned to administrative duties. The Brooklyn District Attorney has asked that neither officer be interviewed by the Police Department as the investigation into this incident continues.



regulations state a taser is NOT to be used when a person can fall from a elevated surface. teh people who ordered it and did it are in trouble.

they know they fucked up. they have regulations in place and did not fallow them.
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,423
0
0
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: thepd7
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: waggy
ugh those pictures are nasty.

presonally i think to many police really on the tazer far to much. this was one instance they shouldnt have used it. he was not in a position to hurt them.

Tasers are now used as a replacement for officers wrestling a person to the ground and handcuffing them. The problem with this is that they should be used as a replacement for firing a gun only. There are a number of medical conditions where a taser can have crippling or lethal effect.


So let's think about these exact circumstances. Would officers have EVER shot the person? Hell no, there was no call for it. So why did they use lethal force?


Sadly, officers are almost never held accountable for their actions.

Wrong. I do not want cops to have to risk their lives, they do it enough. Someone has to get him eventually, why should a cop have to endanger their life (with this guy threatening to "take everyone with him") when they have a tool to subdue him?

Sorry, but risking their lives is part of the job. As a cop you will sustain minor injuries in the normal course of your duties. Again, part of the job. The issue here is that the alternative had a far, far, far less of a chance of death for anyone...and that same alternative has proven effective for the last thousand years. The officers misused their tools.

I'm not ok with that catch all. They risk their lives enough on traffic stops and doing other things they can't avoid. Well, we can avoid making them get physical with every looney. Which, I might add, could have let to them both falling on their heads and dying.

From the details of the case it looks like the person who gave the cop the order was wrong. Suspend him. But don't act like he should be charged with a felony.

I love the self righteous people that think that when Cops make mistakes they should be charged with crimes.

Yes, I know their mistakes can lead to lost lives. Yes, I care. Doctors do the same thing. Bottom line: it's unrealistic to think that anyone will never make mistakes.
 

Dessert Tears

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2005
1,100
0
76
The quality of the video is low, and it cuts to stills, so I can't see exactly what happens. Does Morales jab the light at the officers on the fire escape immediately before the order and the tase? According to the articles, he hit an officer in the head at some point, but the timing is unclear.

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
There are a number of medical conditions where a taser can have crippling or lethal effect.
Specific conditions and link to source?

Originally posted by: funkymatt
as much as we wanted it to happen, that dont taze me bro guy didn't die when he was tazered.
Not comparable. Drive Stun (contact tase) was used in the UCLA and UF incidents.
 

Agentbolt

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2004
3,340
1
0
Originally posted by: thepd7
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: thepd7
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: waggy
ugh those pictures are nasty.

presonally i think to many police really on the tazer far to much. this was one instance they shouldnt have used it. he was not in a position to hurt them.

Tasers are now used as a replacement for officers wrestling a person to the ground and handcuffing them. The problem with this is that they should be used as a replacement for firing a gun only. There are a number of medical conditions where a taser can have crippling or lethal effect.


So let's think about these exact circumstances. Would officers have EVER shot the person? Hell no, there was no call for it. So why did they use lethal force?


Sadly, officers are almost never held accountable for their actions.

Wrong. I do not want cops to have to risk their lives, they do it enough. Someone has to get him eventually, why should a cop have to endanger their life (with this guy threatening to "take everyone with him") when they have a tool to subdue him?

Sorry, but risking their lives is part of the job. As a cop you will sustain minor injuries in the normal course of your duties. Again, part of the job. The issue here is that the alternative had a far, far, far less of a chance of death for anyone...and that same alternative has proven effective for the last thousand years. The officers misused their tools.

I'm not ok with that catch all. They risk their lives enough on traffic stops and doing other things they can't avoid. Well, we can avoid making them get physical with every looney. Which, I might add, could have let to them both falling on their heads and dying.

From the details of the case it looks like the person who gave the cop the order was wrong. Suspend him. But don't act like he should be charged with a felony.

I love the self righteous people that think that when Cops make mistakes they should be charged with crimes.

Yes, I know their mistakes can lead to lost lives. Yes, I care. Doctors do the same thing. Bottom line: it's unrealistic to think that anyone will never make mistakes.


When doctors make mistakes that cost lives, they get sued for millions of dollars in court, and almost always lose if its proved a mistake was made. Real good comparison, genius. :roll:
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
He was a naked man wielding a fluorescent tube! I don't care if he was twirling it around like Yoda, it does not pose a threat to any trained officer of the law.

Like I said, an 8' long stick would have been a MUCH better weapon....

:roll:
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Cool this is off topic and I can throw insults.
Are you brain dead people that think cops are evil and do everything with the intention of killing and harming people that stupid?
Are you brain dead apologists so concerned about OFFENDERS that you think their rights trump law abiding citizens rights and safety?

Let me smash a 8 foot rob of glass over your head and you not be concerned about getting glass in your eyes. We have amazing medical technology but if you lose and eye or 2 you don't get new ones.
Have you ever played with a fluorescent tube? They are extremely fragile. They implode when broken. It probably would have broken if he would have even tried to swing it with any force at lenth.

My point is that if you feel threatened by a naked mentally ill man with a fluorescent tube standing on a ledge, you should not be a police officer.

There is no way that this man was any threat to the officers with the amount of knowledge and training they have. I don't know how this can be disputed.

What if the man didn't have the fluorescent tube? Everybody would have gotten a good chuckle from his threats. But wait, maybe he had a gun stuck up his ass!

:roll:

 

MercenaryYoureFired

Senior member
Nov 8, 2006
343
0
0
Originally posted by: SN4p
i love all the self righteous pricks that are attempting to defend these obviously negligent (read: fucking stupid) cops. the guy wasnt hurting anyone... why the hell would that be needed?

Oh sn4ps sup brah, that 4 suppose to be an A? Yeah you're cool.

Everyone needs to realize that the (fucking stupid) cop was under orders to do what he did, so putting the blame on him is retarded.

Also no one seems to ever apply the human factor to policemen; It's easy to sit in your cubicle and scream bloody murder, but when you have someone standing on a ledge for 40+ mins all the while spouting threats and refusing to comply, something has/had to be done.

 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: waggy
ugh those pictures are nasty.

presonally i think to many police really on the tazer far to much. this was one instance they shouldnt have used it. he was not in a position to hurt them.

Tasers are now used as a replacement for officers wrestling a person to the ground and handcuffing them. The problem with this is that they should be used as a replacement for firing a gun only. There are a number of medical conditions where a taser can have crippling or lethal effect.


So let's think about these exact circumstances. Would officers have EVER shot the person? Hell no, there was no call for it. So why did they use lethal force?


Sadly, officers are almost never held accountable for their actions.

You are wrong..but that's for another topic.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,417
12,595
126
www.anyf.ca
They really need to start treating tasers like guns. In fact they could make a good replacement for guns in most close combat situations. But yet they just use them for fun. It's like a toy to them.

This guy seemed like a retard though, and was not harming anyone - he was just adding, well, like a retard, a FFR at that. (Fully Functional Retard)
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
They really need to start treating tasers like guns. In fact they could make a good replacement for guns in most close combat situations. But yet they just use them for fun. It's like a toy to them.

This guy seemed like a retard though, and was not harming anyone - he was just adding, well, like a retard, a FFR at that. (Fully Functional Retard)

Hey look, another guy who doesn't know what he's talking about!
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
81
I like how, even when the department's official stance is that they made a mistake or violated policy, people still defend the police's actions.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,376
5,337
146
That was a tragic accident:(
On the positive side, the department does have a rule to prevent this from happening. Rules do get broken, but I would bet this one won't get broken anytime soon.
 

Agentbolt

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2004
3,340
1
0
Originally posted by: skyking
That was a tragic accident:(
On the positive side, the department does have a rule to prevent this from happening. Rules do get broken, but I would bet this one won't get broken anytime soon.

When you hand dangerous weapons to a group of people who got their jobs by virtue of having

A: A pulse
B: No felonies on their record
C: The ability to furiously scribble in crayon on one of the easiest entrance exams I've ever seen

rules like this are going to continue being broken pretty regularly. And to cut off the first wit from asking, yes, I've taken the police entrance exam. Seeing the rest of the people in there taking that test, and the difficulty of the exam itself, answered a lot of questions as to why cops routinely do such stupid shit.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
2
56
Originally posted by: skyking
That was a tragic accident:(
On the positive side, the department does have a rule to prevent this from happening. Rules do get broken, but I would bet this one won't get broken anytime soon.

Did you even bother reading the thread?

Originally posted by: waggy
all that really needs to be said is from the statement from the police department.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09...ion/25taserletter.html

On Wednesday, September 24 at approximately 1:50 PM, members of the NYPD?s Emergency Service Unit responded to the report of an emotionally disturbed person at 489 Tompkins Avenue in Brooklyn. The individual, Inman Morales, fled out the window of his third-floor apartment to the fire escape. After unsuccessfully trying to enter the apartment of a fourth-floor neighbor from the fire escape, Morales fled to the second-floor fire escape, and from there onto the housing of a roll-down security gate, which was 10-feet, five inches from the sidewalk.

As an ESU officer was in the process of securing himself on the second-floor fire escape, Morales jabbed at him with an eight-foot long florescent light. An ESU lieutenant directed another ESU officer on the sidewalk to employ a Conducted Energy Device (CED), commonly known as a Taser, against Morales, who fell to the sidewalk, striking his head. He was removed to Kings County Hospital where he was pronounced dead.

While officers had radioed for an inflatable bag as the incident unfolded, it had not yet arrived at the scene when Morales fell. None of the ESU officers on the scene were positioned to break his fall, nor did they devise a plan in advance to do so.

The order to employ the Taser under these circumstances appears to have violated guidelines, re-issued June 4, 2008, which specifically state that ?when possible, the CED should not be used?in situations where the subject may fall from an elevated surface.?

The lieutenant who directed the use of the Taser has been placed on modified assignment. The officer has been assigned to administrative duties. The Brooklyn District Attorney has asked that neither officer be interviewed by the Police Department as the investigation into this incident continues.



regulations state a taser is NOT to be used when a person can fall from a elevated surface. teh people who ordered it and did it are in trouble.

they know they fucked up. they have regulations in place and did not fallow them.
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,423
0
0
Originally posted by: Agentbolt

When doctors make mistakes that cost lives, they get sued for millions of dollars in court, and almost always lose if its proved a mistake was made. Real good comparison, genius. :roll:

Really? Every single time? lol sure thing brah.

So do they get fired? How about charged with a crime? That's what a lot of people are calling for here.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,376
5,337
146
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: skyking
That was a tragic accident:(
On the positive side, the department does have a rule to prevent this from happening. Rules do get broken, but I would bet this one won't get broken anytime soon.

Did you even bother reading the thread?

Originally posted by: waggy
all that really needs to be said is from the statement from the police department.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09...ion/25taserletter.html

On Wednesday, September 24 at approximately 1:50 PM, members of the NYPD?s Emergency Service Unit responded to the report of an emotionally disturbed person at 489 Tompkins Avenue in Brooklyn. The individual, Inman Morales, fled out the window of his third-floor apartment to the fire escape. After unsuccessfully trying to enter the apartment of a fourth-floor neighbor from the fire escape, Morales fled to the second-floor fire escape, and from there onto the housing of a roll-down security gate, which was 10-feet, five inches from the sidewalk.

As an ESU officer was in the process of securing himself on the second-floor fire escape, Morales jabbed at him with an eight-foot long florescent light. An ESU lieutenant directed another ESU officer on the sidewalk to employ a Conducted Energy Device (CED), commonly known as a Taser, against Morales, who fell to the sidewalk, striking his head. He was removed to Kings County Hospital where he was pronounced dead.

While officers had radioed for an inflatable bag as the incident unfolded, it had not yet arrived at the scene when Morales fell. None of the ESU officers on the scene were positioned to break his fall, nor did they devise a plan in advance to do so.

The order to employ the Taser under these circumstances appears to have violated guidelines, re-issued June 4, 2008, which specifically state that ?when possible, the CED should not be used?in situations where the subject may fall from an elevated surface.?

The lieutenant who directed the use of the Taser has been placed on modified assignment. The officer has been assigned to administrative duties. The Brooklyn District Attorney has asked that neither officer be interviewed by the Police Department as the investigation into this incident continues.



regulations state a taser is NOT to be used when a person can fall from a elevated surface. teh people who ordered it and did it are in trouble.

they know they fucked up. they have regulations in place and did not fallow them.

Nik, I left out 'again'.
I meant to say it won't get broken AGAIN anytime soon. The lawsuits and the bad publicity will insure that there will be further training. it is terrible that somebody had to die to reinforce it.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
I like how, even when the department's official stance is that they made a mistake or violated policy, people still defend the police's actions.

of course. there are a few that will defend the cops in nearly ANYTHING as there are a few on here that will blame the cops for everything.