Police Tasers Nude Mentally-Ill Man

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

uhohs

Diamond Member
Oct 29, 2005
7,660
43
91
Originally posted by: Eli
Do you people saying he was making threats not have a brain?

He was naked. He was holding a fluorescent bulb. He was on a ledge. Does the ledge give him a tactical advantage or something? No. It gives him a disadvantage. There was no danger to anybody except himself.

Clearly, he was going to slay everybody! He could have jumped off the ledge and lunged at someone!

Training? You braindead folks keep mentioning training. Isn't this what your training is supposed to do? Do you really feel threatened by a naked mentally ill man with a fluorescent tube?

Why don't you let him jump, and when he breaks his legs, take the tube away from him?

Why don't you let him jump, and when he doesn't break his legs, use this training you speak of to disarm him?

An 8' long stick would be a better weapon than a fluorescent tube! He could have broken it over an officers head and it would have shattered. He would no longer be holding it, and the officer would be lucky to have a single cut.

He could have then lunged at an officer he was lucky enough to still be holding a piece of the tube. Oh noes! I am sure this man has cat like reflexes and agility. Oh wait, that's what your training is supposed to provide you with.

This is disgusting.

that's a brilliant tactic, letting the guy hit you with a flourescent tube and the chemicals inside so "he would no longer be holding it". way to use the brain some of us don't have.

i'm not arguing that tazing the guy on a ledge is a good idea, i'm just saying that some of you guys are very unrealistic.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
2
56
Originally posted by: uhohs
i'm not arguing that tazing the guy on a ledge is a good idea, i'm just saying that some of you guys are very unrealistic.

I dunno, I think Eli made a good point that I think you may be missing. Even if the poor man were within melee range and did manage to break the bulb over your head, you wouldn't be hurting that bad --to say nothing of being in any real danger. The guy clearly didn't have the wearwithall to think of doing that, let alone doing anything worse like jabbing anyone with the broken bulb. Your defensive training kicks in and you disarm the guy and detain him.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
couldn't they have just gotten another stick (like a broom or something) and broken the crazy guys stick?

regardless, i think this is a case were the officer involved should be charged with what a civilian would be charged with had they taken comparable actions.
 

SarcasticDwarf

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2001
9,574
1
76
Originally posted by: uhohs
Originally posted by: Eli
Do you people saying he was making threats not have a brain?

He was naked. He was holding a fluorescent bulb. He was on a ledge. Does the ledge give him a tactical advantage or something? No. It gives him a disadvantage. There was no danger to anybody except himself.

Clearly, he was going to slay everybody! He could have jumped off the ledge and lunged at someone!

Training? You braindead folks keep mentioning training. Isn't this what your training is supposed to do? Do you really feel threatened by a naked mentally ill man with a fluorescent tube?

Why don't you let him jump, and when he breaks his legs, take the tube away from him?

Why don't you let him jump, and when he doesn't break his legs, use this training you speak of to disarm him?

An 8' long stick would be a better weapon than a fluorescent tube! He could have broken it over an officers head and it would have shattered. He would no longer be holding it, and the officer would be lucky to have a single cut.

He could have then lunged at an officer he was lucky enough to still be holding a piece of the tube. Oh noes! I am sure this man has cat like reflexes and agility. Oh wait, that's what your training is supposed to provide you with.

This is disgusting.

that's a brilliant tactic, letting the guy hit you with a flourescent tube and the chemicals inside so "he would no longer be holding it". way to use the brain some of us don't have.

i'm not arguing that tazing the guy on a ledge is a good idea, i'm just saying that some of you guys are very unrealistic.

These guys are supposed to be cops, not members of Bob's Pansy Brigade. That makes as much sense as whining about soldiers having to go out into the field and get all dirty during training. It is a part of the JOB.
 

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: uhohs
i'm not arguing that tazing the guy on a ledge is a good idea, i'm just saying that some of you guys are very unrealistic.

I dunno, I think Eli made a good point that I think you may be missing. Even if the poor man were within melee range and did manage to break the bulb over your head, you wouldn't be hurting that bad --to say nothing of being in any real danger. The guy clearly didn't have the wearwithall to think of doing that, let alone doing anything worse like jabbing anyone with the broken bulb. Your defensive training kicks in and you disarm the guy and detain him.

thats like saying "the guy had a knife, but ccaaaaammmmonnnn, if he stabbed you, it wouldn't hurt thaaaaat bad would it?"
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
2
56
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: uhohs
i'm not arguing that tazing the guy on a ledge is a good idea, i'm just saying that some of you guys are very unrealistic.

I dunno, I think Eli made a good point that I think you may be missing. Even if the poor man were within melee range and did manage to break the bulb over your head, you wouldn't be hurting that bad --to say nothing of being in any real danger. The guy clearly didn't have the wearwithall to think of doing that, let alone doing anything worse like jabbing anyone with the broken bulb. Your defensive training kicks in and you disarm the guy and detain him.

thats like saying "the guy had a knife, but ccaaaaammmmonnnn, if he stabbed you, it wouldn't hurt thaaaaat bad would it?"

Did I say getting stabbed with it wouldn't hurt? Breaking it over your head wouldn't hurt. Getting stabbed with it obviously would, don't be stupid.

Good thing the cops tazed and killed him, though, cuz he was swinging a giant knife around like a maniac and was obviously very close to killing someone, though!!!
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
2
56
Haha.

All cement should put on the FBI's watch list. This cement should be tried by a jury of its peers. River rocks everywhere will be getting jury notifications soon.
 

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: uhohs
i'm not arguing that tazing the guy on a ledge is a good idea, i'm just saying that some of you guys are very unrealistic.

I dunno, I think Eli made a good point that I think you may be missing. Even if the poor man were within melee range and did manage to break the bulb over your head, you wouldn't be hurting that bad --to say nothing of being in any real danger. The guy clearly didn't have the wearwithall to think of doing that, let alone doing anything worse like jabbing anyone with the broken bulb. Your defensive training kicks in and you disarm the guy and detain him.

thats like saying "the guy had a knife, but ccaaaaammmmonnnn, if he stabbed you, it wouldn't hurt thaaaaat bad would it?"

Did I say getting stabbed with it wouldn't hurt? Breaking it over your head wouldn't hurt. Getting stabbed with it obviously would, don't be stupid.

Good thing the cops tazed and killed him, though, cuz he was swinging a giant knife around like a maniac and was obviously very close to killing someone, though!!!

I was just using your stupid reasoning to show why it makes no sense.
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
2
56
Originally posted by: ric1287
I was just using your stupid reasoning to show why it makes no sense.

What you said and what I said are two different things. You're putting words in my mouth, suggesting that I said getting stabbed wouldn't hurt that much.

You fail.
 

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: ric1287
I was just using your stupid reasoning to show why it makes no sense.

What you said and what I said are two different things. You're putting words in my mouth, suggesting that I said getting stabbed wouldn't hurt that much.

You fail.

nope, not really. You used your opinion to justify why something would or would not hurt. Would you let me hit you in the head with an object I felt would not hurt me that much?
 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
2
56
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: ric1287
I was just using your stupid reasoning to show why it makes no sense.

What you said and what I said are two different things. You're putting words in my mouth, suggesting that I said getting stabbed wouldn't hurt that much.

You fail.

nope, not really. You used your opinion to justify why something would or would not hurt. Would you let me hit you in the head with an object I felt would not hurt me that much?

When you're done twisting what I said simply for the sake of arguing, I'll continue in discussion with you :)
 

AstroManLuca

Lifer
Jun 24, 2004
15,628
5
81
I'm not getting all up in arms about this... the guy did seem suicidal, or at least mentally handicapped to the point of being unable to make any judgments for himself. That happens fairly often, usually among sufferers of bipolar disorder. While it's too bad, I see their deaths as almost a natural consequence of their disease.

However, one thing I will never understand about the people who always side with the cops - has it ever occurred to you that we should hold them to a higher standard? Since, you know, it's their job to be able to defuse situations and protect people. They say that "you don't know what it's like" or "what would you do in that situation?" But those just don't sound like arguments to me. I'm not a cop, so it doesn't matter what I'd do. I don't know what it's like, but a cop should be able to take difficult or dangerous situations in stride. To demonstrate lapses in judgment like this is to demonstrate that one is not fit for the job.

Throughout all these controversies, I think tasers have been singled out, and that's wrong. Tasers are great tools, but cops don't treat them with enough respect. They think that if they just zap everyone into submission, their job will be made easier and they still won't get in any trouble. Unfortunately, that seems to be a correct assumption, judging by how often cops get off scot-free no matter what they do. There are justifiable uses of force, including tasers, and there are ones where the cop clearly oversteps his bounds. Why can't people realize this? I'm certain 99% of situations are perfectly acceptable, but you don't hear about those on the news.
 
Feb 19, 2001
20,155
23
81
Originally posted by: FallenHero
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: FallenHero
Man, lots of monday morning quartbacking in this thread with a bunch of people that know nothing about tasers or police work.

Yeah, it's as if they'd seen an article about police killing an unarmed man for no reason or something. What a bunch of dumbass forum members!

Oh please. Don't make this into something it isn't. The police didn't taser the man hoping for his death. You think they wanted the guy to fall? And don't give me this "Should have known" non-sense. You weren't there. The guy could have been threatening to jump and they tasered in an attempt to prevent it.

In either case, I believe its still fully justified.

Call me a cop apologist, but I'm drawing from my training and experience in the matter. What are you drawing from?

You're drawing from the need to hide behind the badge and to defend a force you feel loyal too. Its the same thing as fanboyism and it's the best case of bias.

You're now throwing in a bunch of "WHAT IFs" to justify the tazing. Honestly, your training obviously doesn't deal with naked mentally ill guys at a ledge, because if it did I can guarantee the solution to it is not to taze him when he was not about to jump off.

Oh and stop the "You weren't there" because you weren't either.
 

dakels

Platinum Member
Nov 20, 2002
2,809
2
0
This is a really disturbing situation. While I doubt this cop is going to court for criminally negligent homicide, I don't think this person deserves to wear a badge when showing this incredible lack of judgement. There were so many other ways out of this situation then the obviously risky method that was employed.

Oh update to the story: Am LT ordered a lower rank officer to taser the guy after the suspect jabbed an officer with the light bulb... What a terrible decision by a senior rank officer. He should have known better if not by common sense but the written police guidelines on how this situation is to be handled.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new...fficers_in_taser_.html

As an ESU officer was in the process of securing himself on the second-floor fire escape, Morales jabbed at him," Browne said.

Instead of waiting for backup to arrive with an airbag that would have broken his fall, "an ESU lieutenant directed another ESU officer on the sidewalk to employ a Conducted Energy Device (CED), commonly known as a Taser, against Morales, who fell to the sidewalk, striking his head," Browne said.

Browne said police regulations "specifically state that 'when possible, the CED should not be used ? in situations where the subject may fall from an elevated surface.'"

Morales, 35, fell 10 feet and landed headfirst on the pavement. He was declared dead at Kings County Hospital.

"It just wasn't a smart move. When you Taser someone, they drop like a stone. No muscle control. Under regular circumstances, the (suspect) could have jumped himself and been OK," a police source said.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: dakels
This is a really disturbing situation. While I doubt this cop is going to court for criminally negligent homicide, I don't think this person deserves to wear a badge when showing this incredible lack of judgement. There were so many other ways out of this situation then the obviously risky method that was employed.

Oh update to the story: Am LT ordered a lower rank officer to taser the guy after the suspect jabbed an officer with the light bulb... What a terrible decision by a senior rank officer. He should have known better if not by common sense but the written police guidelines on how this situation is to be handled.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new...fficers_in_taser_.html

As an ESU officer was in the process of securing himself on the second-floor fire escape, Morales jabbed at him," Browne said.

Instead of waiting for backup to arrive with an airbag that would have broken his fall, "an ESU lieutenant directed another ESU officer on the sidewalk to employ a Conducted Energy Device (CED), commonly known as a Taser, against Morales, who fell to the sidewalk, striking his head," Browne said.

Browne said police regulations "specifically state that 'when possible, the CED should not be used ? in situations where the subject may fall from an elevated surface.'"

Morales, 35, fell 10 feet and landed headfirst on the pavement. He was declared dead at Kings County Hospital.

"It just wasn't a smart move. When you Taser someone, they drop like a stone. No muscle control. Under regular circumstances, the (suspect) could have jumped himself and been OK," a police source said.



ok so they didnt fallow police regulations? ugh thats even worse.
 

SN4p

Senior member
Jan 20, 2005
662
0
0
i love all the self righteous pricks that are attempting to defend these obviously negligent (read: fucking stupid) cops. the guy wasnt hurting anyone... why the hell would that be needed?
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,088
722
126
I was under the impression that common sense was a prerequisite to becoming a peace officer. I guess I was mistaken...
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
1
81
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: waggy
ugh those pictures are nasty.

presonally i think to many police really on the tazer far to much. this was one instance they shouldnt have used it. he was not in a position to hurt them.

Tasers are now used as a replacement for officers wrestling a person to the ground and handcuffing them. The problem with this is that they should be used as a replacement for firing a gun only. There are a number of medical conditions where a taser can have crippling or lethal effect.


So let's think about these exact circumstances. Would officers have EVER shot the person? Hell no, there was no call for it. So why did they use lethal force?


Sadly, officers are almost never held accountable for their actions.

Um, don't commit crime, don't get tasered?
You say officers aren't held accountable, what about criminals? To many times peoples 1st action is to blame a cop because you can't get over the fact that one caught you speeding. You fail to understand that they wouldn't be in the position they are in to use the taser if the criminal didn't do criminal things. But lets stop blaming bad guys since there is always an explanation as to why they acted the way they did.
If the guy in this incident was a mentally disturbed individual was it not HIS or HIS MOTHERS responsibility to make sure he was on his meds or was under control? If he ran out into traffic and a cop car happened to be driving by would you hold that cop responsible? What if it was just some poor shmuck?
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
1
81
Originally posted by: SphinxnihpS
Originally posted by: funkymatt
tazers are non-lethal force.

No.

Originally posted by: funkymatt
dude wasn't complying

So what!?!

That cop should slit his wrists.

tasers are less lethal options, but in this case the taser didn't kill the guy the sudden stop did.

Why should he slit his wrists? He was doing his job. The suspect was not complying with commands and an officers job is to maintain control of the situation. The incident was controlled and no innocents were hurt.
 

uhohs

Diamond Member
Oct 29, 2005
7,660
43
91
should've waited for the airbag, bad/stupid call from the ESU lieutenant