Police takedown of woman for speeding

[MrA79]

Regardless of your personal views on the racial aspect, you can't tell me with a straight face that cops (and especially non-black cops) aren't approaching every encounter with a (black) motorist\suspect\whatever with the thought 'do I maybe not make it home tonight if I don't take an aggressive approach?'.

 

[soulcougher73]

Minus the racial stuff. Wouldnt a cop probably be that forceful with anyone that was acting like she did? White, black, brown, purple?

 

[dank69]

Can you be more specific as to what part of my post to which you are referring?

You explained that he was within his rights to treat her like garbage instead of a human being.

 

[Darwin333]

The Supreme Court has stated that the police can order people on a traffic stop into or out of a vehicle for any reason. The officer tells her to get into the car completely so that he can close the door. When she refuses, he tells her to get out, but then she refuses to do so. At that point, the police are allowed to use the force necessary to make her comply.

Now, at that point he appears to want to take her into custody or at least detain her and she resists, so he is allowed to continue to use force to detain her. Even after being on the ground, she continues to try to get up when he is giving her commands. I don't have an issue with the force he used.

Here's where I have a huge issue... His comments are completely unacceptable! There is no room for that kind of attitude or belief in police work.

The other issue I have is why she was being arrested. While the police can use force to detain someone, just someone resisting being detained is generally not sufficient for an arrest. Resisting arrest is just that. It means you resisted being arrested, not being detained. There are plenty of situations where the police use force to detain someone and in the end the person is let go without any charges.

In this case, from what I see in the video, she should have been detained, issued the summons, and then sent on her way. In Virginia, if she had refused to sign the summons at that time, she would be taken in front of a Magistrate to answer why (signing the summons is a promise to go to court or pre-pay a fine, if allowed).

Throw out the rule book and answer as a common decent human being.

You really think that level of force in that specific situation against that specific person was justified?

 

[The Merg]

You explained that he was within his rights to treat her like garbage instead of a human being.

Well, that's not what I said.

As for what the cop does do, what should he have done? He gave her orders to get back in the car and she refused to comply. He told her to then get out of the car and she refused. What should his next step have been?

 

[The Merg]

Throw out the rule book and answer as a common decent human being.



You really think that level of force in that specific situation against that specific person was justified?

I really don't know. As I just posted, after the officer tells her to get in the car and close the door and she refuses and then she refuses to get out when he tells her, what should the next step be?

Does he just say screw it and let her do what she wants?

From what I saw, she kept refusing to comply so the officer kept upping the level of force. Once he went hands on with her, she still continued to resist, to include once she was on the ground (by standing back up).

 

[Darwin333]

So police officers should just pretend that blacks aren't violent? She was clearly a flight risk. She refused direct orders to close the door. She refused direct orders to exit the vehicle. She resisted forceful removal from the vehicle. She resisted arrest. She lived up to the stereotype.

Wow.... I saw someone being absurdly violent in that video and it wasn't the black lady...

 

[Darwin333]

Can you be more specific as to what part of my post to which you are referring?

The going from 0 to suplexing a relatively small woman on the concrete for not exiting her car on command in a few seconds part.

I don't know, I have this weird notion that cops are supposed to use force as a last means and not as damn near the first. How about try to talk to her for a bit longer? Explain things to her a little, like "mam, if you don't get out of the car I am going to arrest you for XYZ. Mam, this is your last warning before I deploy my taser or use XYZ force" etc etc etc... I have another weird notion that cops are supposed to try and prevent people from getting hurt, not be the cause of it.

And for the record, almost all animals tend to react when they are surprisingly attacked and very few of them are hardwired to simply "stop resisting" said surprise attack.

 

[Darwin333]

Minus the racial stuff. Wouldnt a cop probably be that forceful with anyone that was acting like she did? White, black, brown, purple?

No decent human being would have treated her that way for acting like she did.

 

[Humpy]

I don't have an issue with the force he used.

You, and a lot of other idiots, are fine with this stuff because you are idiots. Bitch wouldn't listen! Durrr, no choice but to Hulk smash.

The police chief is "highly disturbed and disappointed in both the way Ms. King was approached and handled" but he's a pussy.

 

[Svnla]

This is why if you get pull over by cop(s), you need to keep your mouth shut and talk as little as possible. Do not argue or be combative or or debate with cops. Just hand them license, registration, insurance info and keep your mouth shut and your hands open on the steering wheel and no sudden quick move.

 

[rommelrommel]

So police officers should just pretend that blacks aren't violent? She was clearly a flight risk. She refused direct orders to close the door. She refused direct orders to exit the vehicle. She resisted forceful removal from the vehicle. She resisted arrest. She lived up to the stereotype.

Everyone has the capacity to be violent.

If he wanted to arrest her, all he had to do was say "you're under arrest." I watched it again and I don't think he was all that unreasonable in the end, but I do still think it was a bad arrest because he never informed her that she was under arrest before going hands on. It doesn't justify her resisting tho.

 

[The Merg]

You, and a lot of other idiots, are fine with this stuff because you are idiots. Bitch wouldn't listen! Durrr, no choice but to Hulk smash.

The police chief is "highly disturbed and disappointed in both the way Ms. King was approached and handled" but he's a pussy.

It didn't start off as a "Hulk smash". He told her multiple times what to do and she didn't comply. He went to take her out of the car and she resisted. He pulled her out and told her to get on the ground and she didn't so he put here there. He told her to put her hands behind her back and instead she tried to get back up.

The force the officer used would have stopped at any time that she complied with what she was being told to do.

 

[The Merg]

Everyone has the capacity to be violent.

If he wanted to arrest her, all he had to do was say "you're under arrest." I watched it again and I don't think he was all that unreasonable in the end, but I do still think it was a bad arrest because he never informed her that she was under arrest before going hands on. It doesn't justify her resisting tho.

Although he might not have been initially placing her under arrest when the incident started. At that time, he was just trying to get her to get out of the vehicle. Unless he saw something that had him determine she was under arrest, which at that time, you're correct, he should have informed her she was under arrest.

 

[The Merg]

The going from 0 to suplexing a relatively small woman on the concrete for not exiting her car on command in a few seconds part.



I don't know, I have this weird notion that cops are supposed to use force as a last means and not as damn near the first. How about try to talk to her for a bit longer? Explain things to her a little, like "mam, if you don't get out of the car I am going to arrest you for XYZ. Mam, this is your last warning before I deploy my taser or use XYZ force" etc etc etc... I have another weird notion that cops are supposed to try and prevent people from getting hurt, not be the cause of it.



And for the record, almost all animals tend to react when they are surprisingly attacked and very few of them are hardwired to simply "stop resisting" said surprise attack.

You suggest that he talk to her longer. Upon first approaching she is already defensive in that she doesn't think that he can stop her and he explains that he can. He has already told her to get back in the car and she doesn't let him close the door due to how she is sitting. You remark that he should explain that she will be arrested for that, however, that is not a reason to arrest someone.

You raise a good question about whether the cop should inform her as to what he is going to do if she does not comply. Is that something that cops should have to do every time?

I remember my Pop telling me that he had three steps to get me to do things: Ask me, tell me, and then make me. I'm wondering if the police should take that approach as well...

Ma'am, can you please get out of the vehicle?
Ma'am, get out of the vehicle.
<Use force to get ma'am out of the vehicle>


With regard to using the Taser, many jurisdictions are now not allowing the Taser to be used on passive resisters. Now, while you can't see exactly how she is resisting while in the car, it would make sense that she was just pulling away from him and not hitting him. I'm not sure if just pulling away, would raise that to the active resister level. Once out of the car though, she appears to be an active resister.

 

[brycejones]

So police officers should just pretend that blacks aren't violent? She was clearly a flight risk. She refused direct orders to close the door. She refused direct orders to exit the vehicle. She resisted forceful removal from the vehicle. She resisted arrest. She lived up to the stereotype.

Wow

 

[dank69]

Well, that's not what I said.

As for what the cop does do, what should he have done? He gave her orders to get back in the car and she refused to comply. He told her to then get out of the car and she refused. What should his next step have been?

Don't give the stupid order in the first place. Treat her like an equal.

 

[dank69]

This is why if you get pull over by cop(s), you need to keep your mouth shut and talk as little as possible. Do not argue or be combative or or debate with cops. Just hand them license, registration, insurance info and keep your mouth shut and your hands open on the steering wheel and no sudden quick move.

Yup, be a good little bitch and bend the fuck over for your masters. Never mind that it's probably more likely that a black person will be shot by the cop even while being compliant than it is that the black person will shoot or harm the officer.

 

[MrA79]

Don't give the stupid order in the first place. Treat her like an equal.

That's not what police are trained to do. That's how they get hurt.

 

[dank69]

You suggest that he talk to her longer. Upon first approaching she is already defensive in that she doesn't think that he can stop her and he explains that he can. He has already told her to get back in the car and she doesn't let him close the door due to how she is sitting. You remark that he should explain that she will be arrested for that, however, that is not a reason to arrest someone.

You raise a good question about whether the cop should inform her as to what he is going to do if she does not comply. Is that something that cops should have to do every time?

I remember my Pop telling me that he had three steps to get me to do things: Ask me, tell me, and then make me. I'm wondering if the police should take that approach as well...

Ma'am, can you please get out of the vehicle?
Ma'am, get out of the vehicle.
<Use force to get ma'am out of the vehicle>


With regard to using the Taser, many jurisdictions are now not allowing the Taser to be used on passive resisters. Now, while you can't see exactly how she is resisting while in the car, it would make sense that she was just pulling away from him and not hitting him. I'm not sure if just pulling away, would raise that to the active resister level. Once out of the car though, she appears to be an active resister.

Some people react poorly to being pulled over. Cops should understand this and work towards diffusing the situation. Be polite and show her that interactions with cops don't have to be unpleasant. You are just doing your job and explain calmly that you understand she is upset but she can't just go around breaking the law because she will get a ticket. If she runs, she runs. Let her go. You have her car, her plate, probably enough to identify her so that she can face a judge at some point anyway. Better that a hundred unidentified criminals get away than one mostly law abiding citizen get suplexed for a speeding ticket because she let her emotions get the best of her.

 

[dank69]

That's not what police are trained to do. That's how they get hurt.

Yes I'm aware that cops are now trained to treat every citizen as if they were a Jihadi with a minigun under their skirt. I don't agree with that philosophy.

 

[SheHateMe]

sounds like resisting to me.

She wasn't under arrest, stupid.

So police officers should just pretend that blacks aren't violent?

Yes, because every single one of us are violent. So where a white person gets patience during a traffic stop regardless of their attitude, blacks get the billy club.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Some people react poorly to being pulled over. Cops should understand this and work towards diffusing the situation. Be polite and show her that interactions with cops don't have to be unpleasant. You are just doing your job and explain calmly that you understand she is upset but she can't just go around breaking the law because she will get a ticket. If she runs, she runs. Let her go. You have her car, her plate, probably enough to identify her so that she can face a judge at some point anyway. Better that a hundred unidentified criminals get away than one mostly law abiding citizen get suplexed for a speeding ticket because she let her emotions get the best of her.

Correct. Police Officers should be trained to diffuse and calm the situation.

 

[The Merg]

Don't give the stupid order in the first place. Treat her like an equal.

Police are taught that when doing a traffic stop that if the person gets out of their vehicle to tell them to get back in the vehicle. He told her to get back in the vehicle. I went back to listen to the video to hear exactly how he told her, but it appears Huff Post doesn't have the full video now. I don't think he was rude or mean in any way when he first told her, but if someone can post what he said, it would be appreciated.

So what should he have told her to do?

 

[SheHateMe]

Correct. Police Officers should be trained to diffuse and calm the situation.

They have no problems doing it with white people.